Frank Yang on TOE with Curt Jaimungal Interview

[Sincerity]

2 hours ago, axiom said:

@Sincerity That which guides you to awaken is what keeps you asleep (not you personally, but “you”)

The self will keep chasing its own tail until it exhausts itself. Spirituality is just another excuse among many, another distraction from IT. It’s a very addictive excuse too - it engages the self like nothing else. 

I say that “understanding” is to live in separation because nothing can actually be “understood” without apparent subject / object duality. That is, the thing to be understood and the understanding of the thing. This is not what is actually happening. Things arise and that is all.

That is to say that everything is completely meaningless, including this.

“Pure consciousness” (which is really just the last bastion of hope for the self) requires an observer - the observer may seem to be there on a much more subtle level, or perhaps even not at all, but it is still there (as an illusion)

Consciousness is not what it seems to be. That’s the end point of this whole thing. The entire illusion of self is constructed around it.

Interesting. What You say rings true and aligns with some of "my" latest insights.

And yet I wonder... all that You say here is your understanding. Ehh, I gotta contemplate whether it's possible at all to go without it.

Thank You for your wisdom.  Sincerely.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Sincerity

[Thought Art]

3 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

It should be mentioned that Buddhism doesn’t focus on consciousness as a goal.  The goal is to end “suffering”.   The Buddha was focused on “suffering” and all his teachings were directed to that which ends “suffering”.   

Buddhism is really a science of living well.

[vladorion]

There are no claims in Buddhism that Buddhist practice will make you highly conscious or anything of that sort.

The goal is to end suffering by dissolving self-based confusion.

The reason why seeking stops when realizing emptiness is because suffering stops to a large degree and it is suffering which fuels the seeking. The incessant desire to understand more and more is also fuelled by suffering.

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, bazera said:

@Leo Gura What do you think of Ralston's teachings? How would you compare them to Buddhism or Vipassana?

Do you think what Ralston teaches is closer to what you refer to as God than Buddhism?

Ralston's teachings are some of the best on the planet. He's one of the few teachers I seriously respect.

However I feel like he withholds way too much. And there's many topics he doesn't cover. I found a lot of gaps in his teachings.

7 hours ago, Sincerity said:

The point is, aren't all stories of what God is bullshit? Aren't ALL ways of understanding not IT and therefore insufficient?

No.

I don't consider what I am talking about to be "stories". And understanding is not a relative matter. You can have absolute understanding into the nature of Consciousness and God. That's the whole point. It's not merely relative, subjective human stuff like science or religion.

6 hours ago, bazera said:

@Leo Gura

If you were starting now, with the advice that you currently give, to not trust blindly to Buddhists, what would you do differently? You wouldn't spend much time with meditation and do more psychedelics? Or what?

I would emphasize psychedelics, profoundly questioning all metaphysical matters for yourself from scratch, and a focus on the What is Consciousness?

One of my gripes with Buddhism is that it makes people focus on the wrong thing: calming the monkey mind, escaping suffering, and realizing no-self. To me these are all the wrong goals. The proper goal should be pure understanding of metaphysics and Consciousness.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Display_Name]

On 26/02/2023 at 10:33 AM, Inliytened1 said:

Frank is full of games - otherwise he wouldnt be putting out videos.   Hes all about attention.   Leo is 1000 times more awake than Frank.  Frank has zero to offer.

You have no idea what you're talking about past your blatant projection

[Display_Name]

23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Vipassana practice teaches good mindfulness skills. But that is not the same as understanding what Consciousness is or how it works.

Mindfulness is NOT enough! Not anywhere close to enough. But you should skill exercise mindfulness. The more mindful you can be the better, all else being equal. But all is not equal. You have limited resources, and once you get embroiled in the Vipassana brainwashing, it will run you. Vipassana doesn't come for free. It has a huge cost! The cost of brainwashing you into their whole worldview. It is a religion. And no religion understands God.

Frank says precisely this in the first 10 seconds of the video btw

[Adam M]

I like the insights about alien love. That makes a lot of sense to me.

There is so many accounts of alien consciousness contacting humans in channelled states and it's so clear that they're way more advanced in so many degrees and dimensions.

I'm going for alien love on my next trip.

[Leo Gura]

13 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

One of the things I like about all of these conflicting teachings is that it actually makes me see how important it is to think for myself. I can't believe you or the Buddhists, I have to discover the Truth for myself.

Very good!

[bazera]

@Leo Gura And what about Yoga schools? Like for example Kriya Yoga, doesn't it emphasize more than just no-self? 

[puporing]

48 minutes ago, Latham said:

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I've become conscious that our entire universe is just a molecule within an alien God-Mind that exists on a higher dimension, which is using all the conscious experience of the universe to fuel it's own intelligence process, in order to understand itself deeper and accessing ever higher categories of metaphysical Love.

@Leo Gura Can you elaborate on the entire universe being a molecule within an alien God-mind?

Do you mean a literal entity (since you mention it being on a higher dimention), or just God itself?

I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at and I don't want to carry around the wrong idea in my mind.

This reminds me of something I heard Matt Kahn said a while back about the "History of Consciousness": (starts around 9:20)

Though obviously I haven't verified this "story" and it is one way of looking at it from potential other ways.

All this alien talk also gave me another "alien God" awakening today while driving.. I felt like some "alien God" visiting this planet and a completely foreign entity, though the feeling of "Egyptian" also came. Words don't do it justice though the amount of Godliness that was there.

Edited March 2, 2023 by puporing

[Leo Gura]

46 minutes ago, bazera said:

@Leo Gura And what about Yoga schools? Like for example Kriya Yoga, doesn't it emphasize more than just no-self? 

They don't really focus on understanding anything, just dogmatic practice. Who knows where that will take you? It's a huge gamble.

[bazera]

@Leo Gura But you need to have an altered state of consciousness to have the kind of understanding you are talking about, and dogmatic practices supposedly produce those (maybe much milder versions than psychedelics, but still). And if you don't have access to psychedelics, maybe due to your country's strict rules, stricter than USA or Europe, isn't your best bet some Buddhist practices or some Yogic practices? 

And meanwhile, working on your living situation in order to accommodate the availability of psychedelics, if there is a curiosity about something deeper. 

 

[The Blind Sage]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

One of my gripes with Buddhism is that it makes people focus on the wrong thing: calming the monkey mind, escaping suffering, and realizing no-self. To me these are all the wrong goals. The proper goal should be pure understanding of metaphysics and Consciousness.

@Leo Gura I would advise you to make a clearer distinction between spirituality and mysticism. 

Spirituality=liberation (i.e what bhuddism focuses on)
Mysticism=pure exploration of existence (i.e understanding)

Whether Buddhist processes are 'worth the risks' is not my place to say, but it is a misunderstanding of what Buddhism is designed to do if you are criticizing it for its lack of results in understanding the nature of consciousness.
On the other hand, it's foolish to be convinced that a knife is a suitable tool to sew a sweater because it gave you value in a different circumstance. Different things for different purposes...

[Jodistrict]

A practice (e.g., yoga, meditation) over time changes the deep structure of the brain.  Our left brain dominated society overrates intellectual understanding of the neocortex.  Our consciousness is only the tip of the iceberg.   A practice provides a context for realization through experience and requires instructions.   Instructions are not dogma.  Ramana Maharshi gave the instruction to inquire “Who am I?”. 

[Salvijus]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

They don't really focus on understanding anything, just dogmatic practice. Who knows where that will take you? It's a huge gamble.

U could've just sayed. "I'm not sure, i don't understand the subject well enough. The rabbit hole of what yoga has to offer goes so deep it would take a lifetime of exploration and i'd still wouldn't get to the end of it" that would be a much more honest answer and it wouldn't trigger so many people imo.

Btw have u watched the video i linked? It's super cool. It would've changed your opinion about buddhism forever. I have a lot of confidence in it. Unless you're scared of course... ? 

[axiom]

@Sincerity

It’s not my understanding. There is no me. These are words on a screen, apparently.

When you say it rings true, that is also appearing on its own without you. There is no why to it. It is beyond understanding.

 

 

[ValiantSalvatore]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Ralston's teachings are some of the best on the planet. He's one of the few teachers I seriously respect.

However I feel like he withholds way too much. And there's many topics he doesn't cover. I found a lot of gaps in his teachings.

How does a workshop look like when you attend it what do you do there? From watching videos and checking the webpage, it's not really clear. Do you do martial arts and meditation and the contemplative talks more like dharma talks of his teachings?

[Arthogaan]

50 minutes ago, axiom said:

It’s not my understanding. There is no me.

True You/God is imagining that there is no you. 

[Davino]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Ralston's teachings are some of the best on the planet. He's one of the few teachers I seriously respect.

Could you please tell me what are the other few teachers you respect?

 

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The proper goal should be pure understanding of metaphysics and Consciousness.

I am very interested towards understanding too, however I sometimes feel it may be a bias of mine. Could you elaborate further upon why understanding is at the center of your path? And specially understanding applied to metaphysics or Consciousness? Doesn't the path of understanding end in omniscience? Is your goal omniescience or God-Realization or both I assume? What are the downsides of focusing on understanding?

This is a real question and it is important for me to understand the importance of understanding and it's blind spots

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, bazera said:

@Leo Gura But you need to have an altered state of consciousness to have the kind of understanding you are talking about, and dogmatic practices supposedly produce those (maybe much milder versions than psychedelics, but still). And if you don't have access to psychedelics, maybe due to your country's strict rules, stricter than USA or Europe, isn't your best bet some Buddhist practices or some Yogic practices?

1) There is no guarantee those dogmatic practices will get you any ultimate understanding.

2) Manual practices are still useful and important.

3 hours ago, The Blind Sage said:

@Leo Gura I would advise you to make a clearer distinction between spirituality and mysticism. 

Spirituality=liberation (i.e what bhuddism focuses on)
Mysticism=pure exploration of existence (i.e understanding)

I don't agree with such a distinction/framing. I consider what I do and teach to be the highest form of spirituality, the very heart of it.

Quote

Whether Buddhist processes are 'worth the risks' is not my place to say, but it is a misunderstanding of what Buddhism is designed to do if you are criticizing it for its lack of results in understanding the nature of consciousness.

Any spiritual practice which doesn't result in a deep understanding of what Consciousness is, is criminally negligent. And people need to be made aware of this.

It does no one any good if you get tricked into doing 40 years of Buddhist practice, only to finally be told: "Ah, well, but it was not designed to produce and understanding of Consciousness."

If your spiritual practice doesn't produce consciousness into the nature of God, then it's a bad practice, regardless of how much is frees you of suffering or any other perks.

2 hours ago, Salvijus said:

U could've just sayed. "I'm not sure, i don't understand the subject well enough. The rabbit hole of what yoga has to offer goes so deep

The yoga rabbit hole is deep. However, all I said is that doing dogmatic practice offers you no guarantees of understanding. If you want to gamble on it, that's up to you.

My fundamental problem with such spirituality is that it's based on blind adherence to a set of practices for decades without any idea what the result will be and what gaps you will end up with in your understanding. It's equivalent to stumbling upon a map and deciding to devote your whole life to following it, because you believe it will bring you to the promise land. But in fact you have no way of knowing where that map will take you. It might take you to stupid land.

1 hour ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

How does a workshop look like when you attend it what do you do there? From watching videos and checking the webpage, it's not really clear. Do you do martial arts and meditation and the contemplative talks more like dharma talks of his teachings?

I have never taken his martial arts workshops. His consciousness workshops are a combo of theory and a bunch of class exercises with partners. Each workshop lasts about 1 week. They are very good.

56 minutes ago, Davino said:

Could you please tell me what are the other few teachers you respect?

I don't know. I'd have to think about that.

I like Vernon Howard. I like David Hawkins. And others. Although that doesn't mean I agree with everything they teach.

Quote

I am very interested towards understanding too, however I sometimes feel it may be a bias of mine. Could you elaborate further upon why understanding is at the center of your path? And specially understanding applied to metaphysics or Consciousness? Doesn't the path of understanding end in omniscience? Is your goal omniescience or God-Realization or both I assume? What are the downsides of focusing on understanding?

This is a real question and it is important for me to understand the importance of understanding and it's blind spots

My claim is that the entire purpose of Consciousness is self-understanding. There is no other game in town. Everything else is just entertainment until you die.

Yes, eventually Consciousness's understanding of itself becomes so high that it reaches Omniscience and physical existence itself becomes unnecessary.

The downside of the understanding path is that there is no guarantee that you will become free of suffering and full of bliss. In fact, without training for those things I pretty much guarantee you won't get them.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Leo Gura