my 21 day fast lead to psychotic episode.

[Osaid]

8 minutes ago, aurum said:

Jumping into 21 days is like doing a breakthrough dose of 30mg of 5Meo on your first psychedelic trip. 

Yes. You can't go from stuffing your face with food every hour for your entire life to not eating for 21 days.

[martins name]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

READ WHAT I SAID ABOVE: Everyone's body is different.

I did. You fasting wrong doesn't mean fasting, done properly, doesn't work for you. If you're doing stuff, your body thinks it's not supposed to heal, instead, it's supposed to give energy to your brain and body, so it tells you fasting is wrong for you. It was right. Your intuition was right.
 
I disagree with the paradigm that everyone has their own health ideal. The way I think about it is that there is a hierarchy of diets, whatever it is, but some people have defects, like allergies, where they can't do the optimal so they have to settle for the second, or third best. But if the defect is healed they should move to the optimal diet. As I understand you haven't always had these health problems, so the way you have to eat now is not part of the essence of who you are. I believe fasting and raw veganism are optimal, but that's beside the point.

 

@aurum With regards to electrolytes it comes down to that I trust Loren's judgment on it. Otherwise, I agree with you. Do you know any counterindications for when people shouldn't fast?

[Mada_]

Dude I'm so sorry you're going through this.

I had problems with binge eating for years, I was on this forum like once a month looking for answers. I really feel for you I remember skipping school classes and sitting in my parent's cabinet just stuffing my face until my belly ached, the shame that followed. 

Someone on this forum recommended the book Brain Over Binge, can even listen to the audiobook if you don't feel focused enough to read. Pretty much set me straight. 

 

You've got some big lessons to integrate here, don't feel like you can't come back from this. 

 

[Noahsteelers34]

The problem most likeley wasnt the electrolytes as I had already been eating for over a week when I experienced all the strange things I talked about. It was most likely from when I switched off the raw food diet back to eating normal food. 

I don't want to demonize long term fasts here. I think I could have even possibly seen amazing results if I would have stuck with it, but I just don't think I was mentally prepared for what it meant to fast for 21 days and what that meant for my life. I didn't realize that it isn't over after the 28 day fasting and refeeding process... but that you are committed to months of integration and I was not prepared for this. Really what I wanted was my comfortable life back. On top of everything, I had to start school again before the refeeding was even over, and I realized I was in no way shape or form ready for this (this was because loren told me I would feel super human and have no problem going back to school). I got back to school still in a complete state of shock.

This should have been done at tanglewood. Doing this by yourself is 10x as hard... instead of being surrounded by people fasting, in nature, with 24/7 guidance... I was surrounded by people eating wendy's who were alarmed I was loosing weight. 

My guidance through Tanglewood was done after 28 days, but the problem was I was in no way back to normal after that so I felt like I needed continued guidance. like I mentioned.... on night 27 I was continuously vomiting and than basically left on my own after that. I had contact with them through email and was frantically emailing them, but no one responded that night... stressing my point I shouldn't have done this on my own.

all of these factors were what I think contributed to it not being a great experience for me, and caused the episode i was talking about.

Fasting will give you a sense of self-trust and self-discipline you never thought you were capable of. It will erase years of self-doubt and low self-integrity. I never felt more in control of my actions and myself than after fasting.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Noahsteelers34

[How to be wise]

On 25/02/2023 at 8:26 PM, Leo Gura said:

I've done a 12 day water fast. I never felt at ease or not hungry. There is a lot of BS out there about fasting. Lots of myths that people use to sell their books.

I got nothing positive out of fasting. It was miserable from day 1 and it only got worse each day. By day 10 I could barely stand up from a chair without fainting.

Listen to YOUR BODY! Not "experts" selling books. Your body has a lot of intelligence to it. Learn to listen to the messages it sends you.

You have some blog posts promoting fasting.

[tuku747]

Seek homeostasis at all times.
First, in meditation.
Then, throughout the day.

Seek homeostasis.
Seek feeling good.
Seek good, stable energy.

Homeostasis speaks.
Homeostasis will inform You which foods to eat and not eat.

It's not a diet. It's not a dogma.
It's simply being present with the communication with the body.

Heck; It's not about what you eat at all. That's totally unimportant.
What's important is feeling good. What's important is health, NOW.
The real deal. Let true health in the moment be your guiding star.

Edited February 28, 2023 by tuku747

[PurpleTree]

I’ve done a few 5-10 days water fasts and had Mostly a good experience. Although sometimes exhausting. Took laxatives in the beginning and then some electrolytes during the fasts.

[Roy]

Thanks for sharing man. I hope you are finding some balance in your diet and life now after what you went through. Remember to take it one day at a time and don't overthink too much. Seek stability so you can not only get your physical strength back but mental/psychological strength as well.

Let this be a lesson to be your own anchor and not put so much faith in others and the way of life they might sell.

A big problem with a lot of these Stage Orange/Stage Green lifestyle and diet fanatics is they are sometimes so open minded their brains have fallen out. They are so convinced of some binary and strict method that might have worked for them they don't understand it can be dangerous or even lethal for others.

You are really the ultimate authority over your own health and what feels good, nobody else. Experiment and learn things here and there, but don't go full tilt eating pure fruit or not eating anything at all on a whim because of some fleeting inspiration. That's insanity, as you literally found out. 

[Michael569]

Damn, thanks for sharing. Sounds like quite a journey. Those raw foodie communities can definitely be tempting, they know how to sell to people who are more spiritually inclined and they certainly know how to speak to those who have kinda got fed up with stage orange approach to health.

But the risk on the other side of the spectrum is the one you experienced. Thankfully, it seems like the damage was still mild and you are on your way to recovery. Let us know how you get on. 

In this case, rebuilding your muscle, gaining some weight and refeeding microbiota should be your priority. I would put a major focus on protein intake, carbohydrate intake, fibre and probiotic foods for the next couple months and monitor your weight daily to make sure you are going up. 

If you want to go a bit fancy, consider doing DEXA now and in 3 months to also measure your muscle mass and bone mass 

[Arcangelo]

@Noahsteelers34

Thanks for sharing!

Be careful out there.

[player1995]

You fasted because of what your mind has gathered and thought was best for you rather than whats in tune with what your soul actually needs in the moment. Healing is a gradual process. Took me many years to be fully raw, and even then I enjoy cooked food sometimes because I choose to be honest with what I need at any given moment and not live a (fixed-life). Be Flexible ~

Edited March 10, 2023 by player1995

[InfinitePotential]

On 2/24/2023 at 11:35 PM, Leo Gura said:

#1 rule when it comes to health is: no health advice is suitable for everyone. Therefore you must empirically determine what works best for you.

I used to think this was true. Technically, it is. For example, people’s insulin responses to the same foods can be vastly different. (And indeed, a single person’s can be different at different times, in different situations). But that being said, there are rules of thumb that apply to the vast, vast majority of people.

All animal species have little variation as to what constitutes an optimal lifestyle for each individual, health wise. Humans are not likely to be an exception. Sure there is genetic diversity, and we have spread to all corners of the globe and have different environmental influences (unlike other animals), but biologically speaking, we are (almost) all extremely similar. 

For example, lions are unanimously fit for consumption of raw meat, occasional hunting, and lots of laying around all day farting and grooming (idk, I’m not a lion expert). There is little to no variability. No need to make some tweaks to the standard lion lifestyle for one lion and other tweaks for another, barring injury.

I see little reason why humans would be any different. Sure, we are any many ways vastly more complex, but we’re all the same species. That being said, modernity has so radically altered our “natural” environment… unnatural problems could require unnatural solutions. And too, there is a “generational health” aspect to these matters. The book Deep Nutrition makes the case that basicslly, from my understanding, if your parents and grandparents and so on lived unhealthy lifestyles, you’re fucked. If they didn’t, then you can get away with eating trash, because your genes have some good “momentum” (very loosely speaking). Makes sense to me - if I’m locked in with healthy habits, the occasional poor night’s sleep or chocolate binge isn’t too big of a deal. But weeks of that and I’m a totally different person.

Anyways, my main point of this is that no, there are bits of health advice that are (virtually) applicable to everyone. They likely include avoiding poisonous substances, exposure to sunlight and nature, enough high quality sleep to feel well-rested, management of stress, some amount of physical activity, and plenty of 5-MEO-DMT. (They do not likely include abstaining from food for exceedingly long periods of time).