What if you get enlightened through torture?

[LSD-Rumi]

What if you could get enlightened through thousands of hours of torture. This is basically the idea of this movie.  The first half is cool, the second half is  the real gem (or not?)

Warning: This is the more disturbing movie you will ever see in your life. 

 

Edited February 24, 2023 by LSD-Rumi

[Tanz]

There are easy safer ways like cold plunges, breathework, dark room meditation. They trick the body into thinking it's dead.

I suppose physical torture does the same thing but it's just stupid to put yourself in a position of permanent disability for enlightenment. Buddha realized this when he nearly killed himself several times fasting 

[Thought Art]

It would be foolish 

We have the technology ?

No need for torture 

Edited February 25, 2023 by Thought Art

[UnbornTao]

The point is that there isn't a through because it's a matter of direct consciousness. It doesn't involve a process.

On the other hand, why did the Buddha, after his ascetic years, concluded that asceticism wasn't it? A certain amount of discipline (self-denial), as in keeping focus on your contemplation, not letting temporary desires and impulses dictate your practice, is pretty much a must. But it shouldn't be extrapolated to an extreme, unhealthy balance.

Edited February 25, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Jodistrict]

It’s already well known as a technique.  When Shinzen Young was in a Japan monastery, he had to pour freezing cold water over himself every morning before meditation in the middle of winter.  That’s cold torture.  The American Indians have the sweat lodge.  That’s hot torture.   But these methods don’t permanently damage the body so they could still be considered the middle way.  The middle way can still be pretty extreme.

[Breakingthewall]

The dance of the sun was a way of having visions, they say that the sitting bull did it. it was quite severe torture

[Inliytened1]

On 2/24/2023 at 1:27 PM, LSD-Rumi said:

What if you could get enlightened through thousands of hours of torture. This is basically the idea of this movie.  The first half is cool, the second half is  the real gem (or not?)

Warning: This is the more disturbing movie you will ever see in your life. 

 

Sounds silly.  Just self inquire. 

[Yimpa]

I’ve lived decades with mental illness and have also had many awakening experiences. 

[Inliytened1]

9 hours ago, Yimpa said:

I’ve lived decades with mental illness and have also had many awakening experiences. 

What kind?

[Adrian Gonzales]

To accept,acknowledge, appreciate, and embrace what we are then what we reject. Love it and you wont suffer it. It's ok to be and like it or have what you are and gravitate towards it. Alow your heart to lead beside your mind and love what you desire.. Sire!

[LSD-Rumi]

17 hours ago, Yimpa said:

I’ve lived decades with mental illness and have also had many awakening experiences. 

Can you share more details pls?

[Moksha]

Suffering is suffocating. As a kid, I jumped into a river and was caught in the undercurrent. It is the closest I have come to dying. When you are in the pull of the river, is it wiser to fight against it or to surrender? It will land you safely on the other side, if you let it.

[Chives99]

that would be stupid, enlightenment should only be pursued if it resonates as a true desire to let go of attachment otherwise you are just forcing yourself to endure pain and misery for no reason, it kill the ego but leave your mind extremely messed up

[Sempiternity]

I once wrote a short story based on the concept of what would happen if one tortured other people as a way to waken them. Ego doesn't want to surrender to death on its own, so what if someone tortured you to the point of just wanting to die, and at that point they'd be ready to surrender. Would someone thank you for an Awakening, the most blissful, most loving, most profound, most significant thing one can experience, even if you tortured them to get there? Do the ends justify the means? That was the point of the story. 

[Moksha]

1 hour ago, Sempiternity said:

Ego doesn't want to surrender to death on its own, so what if someone tortured you to the point of just wanting to die, and at that point they'd be ready to surrender.

Suffering is only a catalyst to awakening when the person is ready to surrender to the reality of the moment. The reason so few people awaken isn't due to lack of suffering. It is because they react to suffering by resisting it, which only increases their suffering. Most people would be tortured to death before realizing this. It's like being caught in a patch of thorns, and bloodying yourself by fighting against it rather than seeing it truly, and calmly responding by finding your way through it.

[Carl-Richard]

On 25.2.2023 at 8:17 PM, Jodistrict said:

But these methods don’t permanently damage the body so they could still be considered the middle way.

Disruptive practices that break habitual frames and also increase general resilience are perfect tools for spiritual practice. As for torture, if it's either intense and/or long-lasting, it could be considered a disruptive practice, which could lead to a shift in perspective that could facilitate an awakening experience. However, if it otherwise leads to permanent physical or psychological damage, it's of course not recommended.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Sempiternity]

5 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Suffering is only a catalyst to awakening when the person is ready to surrender to the reality of the moment. The reason so few people awaken isn't due to lack of suffering. It is because they react to suffering by resisting it, which only increases their suffering. Most people would be tortured to death before realizing this. It's like being caught in a patch of thorns, and bloodying yourself by fighting against it rather than seeing it truly, and calmly responding by finding your way through it.

True, but possibly if one was tortured to the point of their mind gave up, where the pain and agony was just too much to bear, and at that point dying was more favorable to the pain, then maybe there'd be no resisting and they'd be ready to Awaken. 

[Moksha]

37 minutes ago, Sempiternity said:

True, but possibly if one was tortured to the point of their mind gave up, where the pain and agony was just too much to bear, and at that point dying was more favorable to the pain, then maybe there'd be no resisting and they'd be ready to Awaken. 

People lose their minds all the time, as an escape from suffering. They end up in insane asylums. That is the opposite from seeing the conditioned mind for the torture device that it is. This realization is the beginning of true sanity. When you no longer identify with your thoughts, you are free to train the mind until it aligns with your will. At that point, you are riding the elephant instead of being dragged around by it through the mud.

[Yimpa]

16 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

What kind?

The conditions I have are OCD, ADHD, anxiety, depression, autism. It’s like a cocktail lmao.

[Yimpa]

8 hours ago, LSD-Rumi said:

Can you share more details pls?

I’m at a stage where I can literally have a mental breakdown, then set myself free from it. It’s a skill that I’ve been fine-tuning for about a year now. Prior to these awakenings, I would be trapped in mental hell for days, weeks, months, eternity. 
 

And this is just the beginning
 

There is no cookie-cutter 1-2-3 step on how you realize this for yourself. That’s the beauty of it!