Writing kills your memory!

[Rigel]

2 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Yet, I had near perfect scores in history throughout my schooling. 

Maybe you would have had perfect scores if you had written something down. ?

[Rigel]

30 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

 Einstein or Newton can do the entirety of you calc problems 40 times faster than you. And it's not because he has higher understanding of physics and mathematics than you?

 

 

That's silly I don't have solid grasp of physics and mathematics. What I am saying is Einstein can write down his calc and understand it better than if he didn't. I can run circles around Newton if we talk about jazz harmony. ? 

[Bobby_2021]

50 minutes ago, Rigel said:

That's silly I don't have solid grasp of physics and mathematics. What I am saying is Einstein can write down his calc and understand it better than if he didn't. I can run circles around Newton if we talk about jazz harmony. ? 

I don't have any understanding of music either. So I can't comment on that. I can assure you on my statements on logical subjects.

 

1 hour ago, Rigel said:

Maybe you would have had perfect scores if you had written something down. ?

lol

 

[zurew]

Memorizing things is less and less useful nowadays, because you can have access to any concept or knowledge on the internet now, so memorizing things is most of the time useless, unless it is necessary to understand a new concept.

You said that memorizing by writing things down is bad and indoctrination, but how is that different from memorizing by reading or memorizing by listening to someone? 

You said that you would rather think than write . There is a difference between you trying to remember something using your memory and thinking. Just because you have a lexicon on you neck that does not mean, that you can think. You can remember 1000 more words than another person, but that still won't mean that you are a more effective thinker, unless you think that remembering words is thinking. 

To me thinking means asking questions and questioning concepts and ideas and generating new ideas and solving problems. To me a good thinker is able to understand  and steelman many different kind of perspectives and is able to synthesize those perspectives. Retaining something in your memory != with understanding.

The act of thinking is different from memorization and different from retaining things in memory. Thinking can be using some kind of logic (lets be it deductive logic or inductive logic) to reach a conclusion from a given information or thinking can be much less algorithmic (especially, when it comes to generating new insights and generating new connections between insights). Yes, during the time you are thinking about something it is necessary to remember some of the concepts that you are using to reach a conclusion, however needing something for a period of time does not mean, that you have to or that it is useful to remember those things forerver.

The emphasis is on having the necessary logical and thinking structure and not on your memory.

 

You also talked about being fast and effective. Being a fast thinker and problem solver often means how effectively you can utilize the tools around you. You can literally use google to be the extension of your mind in terms of memory. If you really want to optimize to be really fast at solving problems then spending your time learning about how to use the tools around you more effectively is a much better time investment, than memorizing everything.

[Bobby_2021]

@zurew you can memorize the Bible by writing it down a 1000 times monotonously. That doesn't mean that you properly understand the essence of Jesus's message.

I can contemplate on the essence of the message of Jesus and still manage to remember 70% of the most important words of the bible.

The latter is a much organic approach and doesn't involve writing everything down.

First approach is rote memorization.

Second approach is organic understanding.

Same with a physics textbook. Being able yo repeat a piece if text doesn't mean you understand it. You can repeat an entire physics textbook by simply reading and writing it over and over again. Infact this is what many people do in universities sadly. But you can also try to understand the essence of the text instead of attempting to repeat it. 

Memorising by writing will NOT help you solve difficult problems in physics.

If you don't write down anything at all, you will be forced to calculate difficult problems in your head. And if you can't you can use pen and paper minimally.

Look at Magnus Carlsen. He can remember 10 chess boards simultaneously while blindfolded. 

https://youtu.be/H0n69pDaUaY

He didn't achieve it by writing it over and over again. He forced his own mind to remember the chess board from a young age. This literally changes your brain's wiring. This is true learning. 

You have alos mentioned google maps. It's possible to look at the maps of a location and remember everything you see. And then you don't have to use google maps, when you have a screenshot of the location you are going to in your mind.

How awesome is that. I myself have tried this before. 

This is not a debate. I told you what works. It has given me splendid results personally in real life. I only regret not using my brain's capacity to the fullest. I am not going to let it happen again in future.

Underutilising your mind's enormous capacity should be a crime.

[zurew]

3 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

Memorising by writing will NOT help you solve difficult problems

I can contemplate on the essence of the message of Jesus and still manage to remember 70% of the most important words of the bible.

Second approach is organic understanding.

If this is the essence of your point, then I misunderstood, and I agree. Contemplation is definitely necessary for developing understanding and by contemplating about something you build more and stronger connection(s) in your head with other concepts so you will be able to retain it and understand it better.

[Basman]

You definitely should avoid overdoing it. Writing, that is.

But it is quiet helpful to process conscious thinking, in my experience.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Basman

[fictional_character]

@Bobby_2021

 

 

[Bobby_2021]

30 minutes ago, fictional_character said:

@Bobby_2021

 

 

What the actual f??

[Carl-Richard]

Not writing things down is like not using a phone. It's a mind-extending tool, and it can be used quite effectively to organize everything from general life problems to emotions and intellectual ideas. The mind is not transparent to itself. You have a conscious mind and a subconscious mind, and the conscious mind has a very limited capacity. Also, the very act of thinking itself is limited, nevermind useless thinking, but even so, most thoughts are in fact useless. It's usually a repetition of the same thing for the 100th time, or wishing something was different, or some fear or frustration. 

Many problems can be solved and many hours of emotional labor can be avoided by simply writing it down and commiting to a decision on how to move forward, no matter how small that decision might be. Your memory will not be as good, but it's like how our legs aren't as strong as if we didn't use a car. You will still choose to drive if the situation is appropriate. In general, using mind-extending tools in a smart way when there is no reasonable scenario where you will not have access to such tools, can only be smart.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[UnbornTao]

Memory might not be your priority; it certainly isn't for me either if it means avoiding writing long-form content. Some things are better written down rather than memorized. Writing for long periods can be turned into a meditation.

Writing clarifies your thinking, forces you to communicate concisely, and might stimulate the brain differently compared to rote memorization.

If you somehow discard or dismiss writing, notice the consequences of that decision. Certain possibilities won't arise, like writing a book. For example, reading could be thought of as detrimental to independent thinking. Even if true, reading can also expand your thinking ability. The main point is: why be afraid of writing? Memory can be improved in multiple ways.

Edited April 11, 2024 by UnbornTao

[Bobby_2021]

9 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Not writing things down is like not using a phone. It's a mind-extending tool, and it can be used quite effectively to organize everything from general life problems to emotions and intellectual ideas. The mind is not transparent to itself. You have a conscious mind and a subconscious mind, and the conscious mind has a very limited capacity. Also, the very act of thinking itself is limited, nevermind useless thinking, but even so, most thoughts are in fact useless. It's usually a repetition of the same thing for the 100th time, or wishing something was different, or some fear or frustration. 

If the mind is too polluted or overwhelmed with random ideas, then writing them down helps clear the mess. 

But if your thinking itself is well organised, then you would not be needing a pen and paper in the first place.

You need pen and paper to make up for a disorganised mind. 

Also you can't write anything that the mind can't think. But yes, writing them down may give you a new insight you couldn't find from thinking.

But I am asking you to train your mind's capacity in such a way that you don't have to write it down.

{See Magnus Carlsen playing blindfolded chess}

9 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

And I don't put memory over other things, like organizing stuff. There's stuff that is better written down instead of memorized, in my opinion

It's not merely memory that you can improve by stressing your mind more to think.

You can literally think faster. Speed is crucial for producing real world results. You can also think clearly and in an organized way.

You can also process more information on an absolute scale. Your Brian's neurological landscape would have changed if you train it like this. You will be an expert problem solver. 

For eg a newbie chess player need to see a chess board to play chess. But as soon as you increase your mind's capacity, you can play moves without actually looking at the board. 

Increase the power of your mind.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Bobby_2021

[Bobby_2021]

A brief summary of the entire thread till now for new people reading this:

1) Writing things down is understimulating the mind.

You can improve your cognitive processing power, memory, speed, and visuo spatial capability by forming a mental picture in your mind and computing things without writing down.

2) When your mind feels disorganised, confused or overwhelmed, then you should write down the things you are feeling to declutter the mind. 

This is extremely important.

In other words write, minimally, not zero.

Don't take "Don't write" as a rigid dogmatic advice, because it's not. There exists exceptions to every rule.

If your objective is to communicate insights to a lot of people then you have tk write it down and organise it well. 

Be organic & effortless in your approach. 

I am not telling you to never write anything down ever again. If you can't remember a phone number or a date when you see it, then it makes sense to write it down. But you can also train your mind gradually to remember numbers and names instantly after you see it. Totally possible.

3) Thinking and contemplation is going to help with understanding rather than writing. 

If you want to understand more, write less and contemplate more. Find more connections.

4) Writing down things is slow on top of being relatively understimulating to the mind compared to contemplation.

Thinking and finding relationships between distinctions is fast when your capable enough to learn & generate insights without writing anything down. 

5) You need to slowly and steadily build mental constructions, concepts and form new brain wirings to increase the capability of your mind.

The benifit of training this way is

a) improved short term & long term memory

b) Faster pace at which you learn new things, form connections, do mental computations and work in general.

You can think faster. 

c) You can generate more insights on an absolute level. By feeling less compulsion to write things down immediately as you see it, you are allowing the muse to reveal itself to you as much as possible.

Integration of insights is faster. By writing down insights you are postponing the task of integration, which is even more crucial than generating insights. 

Write one or two words to point to insights if you want something to write down. This way you stress the mind to work to develop the insight further instead of writing everything down. 

Diagrams are also more effective in conveying more information that block of texts. 

Write less, so that your words will contain more depth. They will convey more information per word. 

6) With respect to personal development, we are dealing with materials that are immensely complex and have lot of depth to them. 

It's faster to make these subtle connections in your mind and dwell on it to savour it completely. Resist the temptations to write everything down.

Understanding happens when you find connections and relationships that existed that you didn't know of previously. 

Typing is better alternative to writing by hand because it's faster and doesn't interrupt the flow of insights.

Reality is fundamentally meant for exploration, and nothing else. Reality is not meant for anything else.

You are in tune with the fundamental purpose of reality when you are merely exploring and not concerned on writing things down. 

You will be living with your mind for the rest of your life. So it makes sense to utilise the mind's potential to the maximum.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Bobby_2021

[Carl-Richard]

5 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

But I am asking you to train your mind's capacity in such a way that you don't have to write it down.

How exactly would you do that? Can you train your legs to walk faster than a car?

[Bobby_2021]

5 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

How exactly would you do that? Can you train your legs to walk faster than a car?

False equivalence fallacy my friend.

Trains are an order of magnitude more powerful than legs. They are specifically designed to solve much bigger problem than what your legs are capable of.

You can't write down something that you can't think. Writing is never going to give you something that thinking or contemplating can't already give you. You are just looking at your mind while writing.

Comparing it to the trains and legs situation is incorrect. 

I can't tell you how unless you define a specific context, like chess for example.

Chess masters have trained their brains to play chess without even looking at the board. How they manage to achieve that is a bit complicated. (They breakdown the most repeating patterns called chunks and store them in their head.)

But my point is that it can be done. Increasing your minds capacity has many benefits. 

[Carl-Richard]

5 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

You can't write down something that you can't think. Writing is never going to give you something that thinking or contemplating can't already give you. You are just looking at your mind while writing.

You're giving a reductionistic read of what writing is and what thinking is. Writing is a type of thinking. It's not as simple as copying and pasting the contents of your mind over to text form. It's a recursive process of thinking something, writing something, re-reading it, evaluating what needs to be written based on the last phrase and the text as a whole, etc. Writing, when done properly, allows for a deeper form of thinking, one of structure, focus and refinement.

Thinking is never just one thing. It's always embedded in a context. When you're talking with somebody, you're vocalizing thoughts and getting a response, and you build thoughts on top of that. When you're watching a movie, or going for a walk, you're responding to the input from that environment and building thoughts on top of that. Writing is a special type of context that is very conducive to organizing your thoughts and formulating in-depth thoughts in a longer format.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Bobby_2021]

Ever since I have been recording my insights on my laptop. I rarely go back to read it all. But it gives me insight into myself and repeating patterns that occur in my thought processes.

To be frank, I have to admit that I like writing down my insights if it is done electronically. I still do not get the appeal with writing it down on a paper. It is too slow and you might even forget what you were writing down in the first place.

There is an even better advantage in that I can feed it to some AI who could help me even more with helping me know myself.  This is a good reason to keep writing down your thoughts. I suggest you do it electronically.

[Carl-Richard]

Be skeptical of technology (whether it's writing electronically or the act of writing itself), but be skeptical about being skeptical about technology 😉

[Bobby_2021]

4 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Be skeptical of technology (whether it's writing electronically or the act of writing itself), but be skeptical about being skeptical about technology 😉

It is okay to use technology. Be skeptical of technology using you.  

[Bobby_2021]

IF you want to record as much insights as possible, you have to type them on a computer.

If you want to clear your mind, write things down on a piece of paper. This could help you get rid of repetitive thoughts.