Writing kills your memory!

[Bobby_2021]

https://www.actualized.org/insights/conservative-socrates 

I recently read this post by Leo. It resonated with me so much since I am also hesitant to write things down for the same reason. Didn't know that it was such a conservative value lol. 

Writing things down is slow, it takes effort and it doesn't help improve thinking. Worst of all, it gives you the impression that you have understood things even though you may have really not. Every text of information you need is available on the internet and you can search them up when you need to. 

I have noticed that when I write down any insights I have it's like inducing a diluting effect onto my insights. Insights are meant to be constantly generated and even lost. If you have forgot something, you never really needed it in the first place. This is a philosophy by which I live by in my life. Learning things and forming connections are easier when you are directly observing things and retain them in your head.

Thoughts?    

[caspex]

Yeah making a conscious effort to not write down your insights in order to strengthen your memory and recall would work. It has it's own pros and cons. Whether you should commit to this kind of living really depends on what you're trying to do though. If you're trying to speak about your insights to people like a guru, answering their questions on the spot, then it makes more sense to not write it down and it'd be way better to just have a strong recall and memory for insights. But if you are someone who makes youtube videos every week about a variety of topics, or writes books about topic that you contemplate yourself, or interact with people in a non-live environment like this forum, or maybe writes a blog sharing insights, then it's makes so much more sense to have written down insights. Basically, the more dynamic and live your environment is the more it makes sense to just have better memory and recall instead of written down insights.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Swarnim

[r0ckyreed]

It’s the opposite. Writing helps with memory because memory relies on repetition, organization, and meaning making. It’s even supported by mainstream science.

The issue, however, comes when all you do is write things down to avoid thinking about it. But if you write mindfully, you will have a deeper understanding than those who don’t. Writing is a slow process that gives you ample time to think and you can see your thought processes on paper. The brain is no place for thinking. It is much harder to deceive yourself when it is written on paper.

[Ulax]

5 hours ago, Bobby_2021 said:

https://www.actualized.org/insights/conservative-socrates 

I recently read this post by Leo. It resonated with me so much since I am also hesitant to write things down for the same reason. Didn't know that it was such a conservative value lol. 

Writing things down is slow, it takes effort and it doesn't help improve thinking. Worst of all, it gives you the impression that you have understood things even though you may have really not. Every text of information you need is available on the internet and you can search them up when you need to. 

I have noticed that when I write down any insights I have it's like inducing a diluting effect onto my insights. Insights are meant to be constantly generated and even lost. If you have forgot something, you never really needed it in the first place. This is a philosophy by which I live by in my life. Learning things and forming connections are easier when you are directly observing things and retain them in your head.

Thoughts?    

@Bobby_2021 Maybe I'm making a point based on only a small point you made but nonetheless here it is. I note you write, in essence, that based on the post you see Leo as saying writing as a conservative value.

I think the point Leo was making was more something like this.

Writing is an example of an activity which at one point was seen as a bad idea by conservatives and a good idea by the progressives of that time period. So, writing was seen as progressive at a certain point in a certain culture.  It might have seemed to be clearly the better option to take the progressive option at the time of writing things down. 'What's the harm?' the progressive of that time might think.

But writing has caused a lot of bad things to happen in the world. So, a conservative, relative to writing, was correct in foreseeing the dangers of being progressive with communication. Whereas a lot of progressives of the time were blind to the dangers of the progress which they ushered in.

Hence, its an example of how more and more progress isn't necessarily to be welcomed with open arms. There can be great dangers to progress, which progressives are blind to. Therefore, conservative fears ought to be given sincere consideration.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Ulax

[gettoefl]

are you operating in mind or beyond mind

beyond mind means mind is empty and you are present for reality to operate through you with intuition rather than intellect

in mind means your regurgitate what everyone else knows

of course for certain seasons of life and for certain pursuits you are in mind

other times you want to create fresh raw new unique stunning output

[Gesundheit2]

Socrates was not talking about writing as in using a pen and a paper specifically. He was thinking more general than that. If phones were available back then, he would have said audio recordings or whatever. Derrida refers to the same concept with the same word, but they both mean the general use of symbols rather than writing, as that is similar and prone to idol worship.

Basically he was afraid that recording his ideas would:

1. End creativity and evolution, cuz of dogmatism.
2. Kill his job, cuz nobody knew how to think except a few (my speculation).

Edited February 24, 2023 by Gesundheit2

[Rigel]

I feel like writing actually helps memorize things. I transcribe a lot of songs and it's easier to memorize when I write the chord changes, melody and lyrics down 10 out of 10 times. You could argue that sheet music and english are not equatable and maybe they aren't but I think they are.

[Bobby_2021]

4 hours ago, Swarnim said:

Yeah making a conscious effort to not write down your insights in order to strengthen your memory and recall would work. It has it's own pros and cons. Whether you should commit to this kind of living really depends on what you're trying to do though. If you're trying to speak about your insights to people like a guru, answering their questions on the spot, then it makes more sense to not write it down and it'd be way better to just have a strong recall and memory for insights. But if you are someone who makes youtube videos every week about a variety of topics, or writes books about topic that you contemplate yourself, or interact with people in a non-live environment like this forum, or maybe writes a blog sharing insights, then it's makes so much more sense to have written down insights. Basically, the more dynamic and live your environment is the more it makes sense to just have better memory and recall instead of written down insights.

Well said. I agree. 

For communicating insights properly to other people, it helps to write things down, minimally. 

I will simply write down words to act as pointers to the actual things I want to communicate. To make my mind think more and rely less on external texts.

3 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

It’s the opposite. Writing helps with memory because memory relies on repetition, organization, and meaning making. It’s even supported by mainstream science.

The issue, however, comes when all you do is write things down to avoid thinking about it. But if you write mindfully, you will have a deeper understanding than those who don’t. Writing is a slow process that gives you ample time to think and you can see your thought processes on paper. The brain is no place for thinking. It is much harder to deceive yourself when it is written on paper.

I just don't see it. I occasionally write things down, but only when it's too overwhelming for my mind. At all other times, it is better to just think.

3 hours ago, Ulax said:

@Bobby_2021 Maybe I'm making a point based on only a small point you made but nonetheless here it is. I note you write, in essence, that based on the post you see Leo as saying writing as a conservative value.

I think the point Leo was making was more something like this.

Writing is an example of an activity which at one point was seen as a bad idea by conservatives and a good idea by the progressives of that time period. So, writing was seen as progressive at a certain point in a certain culture.  It might have seemed to be clearly the better option to take the progressive option at the time of writing things down. 'What's the harm?' the progressive of that time might think.

But writing has caused a lot of bad things to happen in the world. So, a conservative, relative to writing, was correct in foreseeing the dangers of being progressive with communication. Whereas a lot of progressives of the time were blind to the dangers of the progress which they ushered in.

Hence, its an example of how more and more progress isn't necessarily to be welcomed with open arms. There can be great dangers to progress, which progressives are blind to. Therefore, conservative fears ought to be given sincere consideration.

I completely agree. But my point was tangent to what Leo tried to communicate using the blog post.

 

 

[Bobby_2021]

This is not to taken as a rigid point.

If your mind is overwhelmed, then it's better to write things down so as to aid the mind.

Else just think and generate insights.

[Bobby_2021]

2 hours ago, Rigel said:

I feel like writing actually helps memorize things. I transcribe a lot of songs and it's easier to memorize when I write the chord changes, melody and lyrics down 10 out of 10 times. You could argue that sheet music and english are not equatable and maybe they aren't but I think they are.

In that case the things you write down have no serious depth to them. Writing things for the sake of repeating later is not particularly admirable either. You are indoctrinating yourself with some piece of information.

 

2 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Socrates was not talking about writing as in using a pen and a paper specifically. He was thinking more general than that. If phones were available back then, he would have said audio recordings or whatever. Derrida refers to the same concept with the same word, but they both mean the general use of symbols rather than writing, as that is similar and prone to idol worship.

Basically he was afraid that recording his ideas would:

1. End creativity and evolution, cuz of dogmatism.
2. Kill his job, cuz nobody knew how to think except a few (my speculation).

Ending creativity is a legit concern. 

[Rigel]

What if I have a show and people expect me to have memorized the set list ? Your point only applies to spiritual insights. If you wanna survive and learn to actually do something in the world with your information it only helps to write it down even if you never read it back. 

Your post is titled "writing kills memory". That's blatantly false. Writing can’t properly communicate higher states of consciousness is more accurate. And no it's not because you memorize something that you are indoctrinating yourself. You are conflating memorizing with believing. I memorized that stuff is made of atoms in high school science doesn't mean I believe it. It's just information. It's just perspectives. 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Rigel

[Leo Gura]

Not writing down insights is criminal negligence.

[Bobby_2021]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Not writing down insights is criminal negligence.

I used to write everything down for 5 years or so. But then I stopped almost completely. 

The problem is this:

1) Insights are generated from a specific state of mind. You can write them down while you are in that state.

When you look back at what you wrote later from a different state, it doesn't really make much sense. 

The state of mind is more important.

I would try to stay in that state for as long as possible and savour the insight as much as possible. 

2) An insight properly integrated doesn't require to be written down.

3) Writing them down is an attempt to *save* the insight for later.

Insights are like a shy cat. If you try to catch them completely they are going to elude you. 

I feel like I was able to generate an order of magnitude more insights when I was simply care free whether worrying I would lose them or not.

 

It's from my personal experience only. I haven't tried psychedelics nor do I have to communicate my insights systematically to others, in which case it's helpful to write them down. 

If my mind is overwhelmed with Insights, then I write one or two words pointing to the insight, so that my mind needs to work further to unpack them as opposed to attempting to write them down completely, which you can't. 

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

1) Insights are generated from a specific state of mind. You can write them down while you are in that state.

When you look back at what you wrote later from a different state, it doesn't really make much sense. 

The state of mind is more important.

There is truth in that. But writing it down still helps. A lot sometimes.

7 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

2) An insight properly integrated doesn't require to be written down.

Writing it down is part of integrating it.

7 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

3) Writing them down is an attempt to *save* the insight for later.

Insights are like a shy cat. If you try to catch them completely they are going to elude you.

Insights are not THAT elusive. You can easily develop a method for quickly writing them down and going about your contemplation.

[Bobby_2021]

8 hours ago, Rigel said:

Your point only applies to spiritual insights. If you wanna survive and learn to actually do something in the world with your information it only helps to write it down even if you never read it back. 

This is not true. It's applicable in academia.

When you do mental maths, for ex in solving differential equations, you will definitely understand the concept more , when you have to do computations in your head.

You can literally do things faster when you are not hell bend on writing it down. You might even find new ways of solving problems when you don't immediately write things down.

Writing is doing & thinking is being, relatively speaking. 

Spend more time in being state. 

Listen, if you are a beginner then, you have to go slow by all means. But you must slowly try to level up the capabilities of your mind.

Normal school and college is merely a memory test. You can not understand a concept and still pass the examinations quite easily.

But as you advance in academia, understanding becomes more important. For ex, standardised tests don't care how much you are able to write to arrive at the answers. 

You can pass the test by simply looking at the question and selecting one of the options for your answer. 

Not writing down makes you FASTER.

The real world is all about speed.

More faster means you are able to get ahead of others faster. And obviously more money.

Again, I am not telling you to never write down anything.

If your mind can't process it even after trying, write it down. Then, build the mental constructions required to process it without writing down next time. 

If your mind can process it, then don't write it down.

This is the best way to slowly increase the capability of your mind. You will feel stronger that you don't have to rely on something external to get things done. 

 

8 hours ago, Rigel said:

Your post is titled "writing kills memory". That's blatantly false. Writing can’t properly communicate higher states of consciousness is more accurate

Yes. You got clickbaited. 

8 hours ago, Rigel said:

And no it's not because you memorize something that you are indoctrinating yourself. You are conflating memorizing with believing. I memorized that stuff is made of atoms in high school science doesn't mean I believe it. It's just information. It's just perspectives. 

You can say that now from a meta perspective. But if you really need to solve physics problems, then you  need to believe that world is made up of atoms. They asked you to write it down a hundred times and memorise it to program your mind for solving problems. 

Repeating something by writing it, is effectively indoctrination.

If you need to memorize huge bodies of knowledge by writing, then it's practically programming your mind with a particular kind of ideology. 

You can make an argument other way, but that's not how it happens in reality for most of the time. 

Edited February 25, 2023 by Bobby_2021

[vishnusavestheday]

Okay, now go to a history lecture and don't take any notes.

Does that help you or hurt you?

 

OR

 

Maybe the problem is how you assess your notes, or how you take self development less seriously than how you would take a classroom setting--while being fed information from a teacher.

[Rigel]

21 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

When you do mental maths, for ex in solving differential equations, you will definitely understand the concept more , when you have to do computations in your head.

You can literally do things faster when you are not hell bend on writing it down. You might even find new ways of solving problems when you don't immediately write things down.

No you won't understand more. Speed as nothing to do with depth of understanding. I can listen to a melody and play it back without thinking about how you would write it. Very fast. I can also write it down analyse it and transpose it in every key. That will make me understand it 12x deeper and remember it forever. Speed has nothing to do with depth of understanding and memory.

22 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

 If your mind can process it, then don't write it down.

If your mind can process it that's great! You can do it fast in your mind. Writing it down will only solidify it in your memory and increase nuance of understanding.

Less is more is bull shit. Less is less. Unless you are on the cushion?

[Bobby_2021]

17 minutes ago, vishnusavestheday said:

Okay, now go to a history lecture and don't take any notes.

Does that help you or hurt you?

OR

Maybe the problem is how you assess your notes, or how you take self development less seriously than how you would take a classroom setting--while being fed information from a teacher.

Do you take notes when you are watching a movie? 

No. Because your mind can effortlessly retains everything you see. Now, why can't you apply this in the context of a history lecture. Histroy is nothing more than a movie.

If you have a disorganised mind, the more you need to write. My suggestion is to build mental constructions which allows you to do computations without writing them down. Time and your mind is the most valuable asset. Have a strong mind, save time.

You are not adding anything to history by writing it down. Just read and retain what is already there. 

I never took any notes nor underlined or marked my books at school. Yet, I had near perfect scores in history throughout my schooling. My books looked clean and neat, exactly as they looked from the time I bought them. 

Self development material has even more depth, nuance and complexity compared to your history or calculus classes.

So not writing them down is even more important. 

 

 

[Rigel]

40 minutes ago, Bobby_2021 said:

 Repeating something by writing it, is effectively indoctrination.

If you need to memorize huge bodies of knowledge by writing, then it's practically programming your mind with a particular kind of ideology.

No it's not. It's just information. If you can’t learn something without believing it you got a very weak mind. I can learn about nazi germany and extract lessons from it without becoming a nazi. Memory as nothing to do with ideology. It's just information. 

[Bobby_2021]

17 minutes ago, Rigel said:

No you won't understand more. Speed as nothing to do with depth of understanding

 Einstein or Newton can do the entirety of you calc problems 40 times faster than you. And it's not because he has higher understanding of physics and mathematics than you?