Friendzone my ass

[Applegarden8]

@ivankiss btw i have noticed that some women in my workplace are very flirty. And I know they have bfs husbands even, they have a ring on it. And it's sometimes SO visible, that something I do, say or express turns them on or they choose to express that they are into me, but it may be not even the case. I a cannot underestand a lot of times why those women give the signals they do. Are they bored? Are they in low quality relationship? Doesn't the attention from their relationship suffice them? I underestand if you are single. I don't want them to feel guilty about it, but when you give me the clues that you are attracted, look at me, talk to me i will just smile and laugh it off, because i don't know what are you hoping for and i am just not taking you seriously. And I love it when they act very flirty and play the boyfriend/husband card in a conversation. You will not tell if they have a partner by their behaviour, really. It's so strange. Do they secretly hate men? Or like having positive validation too much? Or they know something is not fullfilling them (which is truw for all people) andbsome try to substitute with attention? Or they don't know what they want from life and react to whatever impulses they have? I don't know. I can accept how you are, but you are wasting your time flirting with me, i will just switch to a work related topic, because that's why I am there.

[Juan]

On 2/22/2023 at 1:46 PM, ivankiss said:

I either have a girlfriend, a fuck buddy or I'm all alone. 

@ivankiss By reading your thread, I sense a lot of anger and being too hard on yourself. I wish you all the best on healing.???

Edited February 24, 2023 by Juan

[Juan]

On 2/22/2023 at 3:16 PM, ivankiss said:

@Chives99 I had a good friend who was always complaining to me about being friendzoned by this really hot girl that he was super into. He was always there for her. It was almost as if his whole world was revolving around doing these little favours for her. He would flip his day upside down just to meet her needs and "be there for her". And she kept saying that he's like a brother to her, knowing very damn well that he was in love with her. It was really hard witnessing that sometimes. And guess what happened... I ended up banging that girl. Not my friend.

I felt a little bit guilty, so I told him, of course, and it was all cool. It stung a little bit, I imagine, but we were cool. We spoke a lot about it all, he upgraded his game a little bit, and a few weeks after that he met a girl and took her home. Lost his virginity that night, at age 21. True story.

Also what?! Idk how long is been this but this is something I would consider to change and heal. Imagine if a friend of you do it to you, this is a exercise I bring for myself if you wanna practice compassion and even more if you valued that friendship. This is like “hey man, you’re not hitting hard enough on her so Imma do it.”but doing it without he knowing. 

[ivankiss]

@Applegarden8 Yeah, some people flirt full on even when they're in a relationship. I'm not a fan of it. Although I cannot say I've never done it myself... Like, back when I was 20 maybe. I cannot imagine doing it now. It just does not seem or feel right.

59 minutes ago, Juan said:

By reading your thread, I sense a lot of anger and being too hard on yourself. I wish you all the best on healing.???

You are not wrong. I am angry and I am healing. This is part of the process.

Thanks.

37 minutes ago, Juan said:

Also what?! Idk how long is been this but this is something I would consider to change and heal. Imagine if a friend of you do it to you, this is a exercise I bring for myself if you wanna practice compassion and even more if you valued that friendship. This is like “hey man, you’re not hitting hard enough on her so Imma do it.”but doing it without he knowing. 

It was quite a while a go and I never did anything like that again. It wasn't really nice of me, I agree. But in a way, he set us up. He knew it was going to happen, and he also knew that girl would never consider being with him. Again, not cool, but not such a big backstab either.

[Schizophonia]

2 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

@Applegarden8 Yeah, some people flirt full on even when they're in a relationship. I'm not a fan of it. Although I cannot say I've never done it myself... Like, back when I was 20 maybe. I cannot imagine doing it now. It just does not seem or feel right.

You are not wrong. I am angry and I am healing. This is part of the process.

Thanks.

It was quite a while a go and I never did anything like that again. It wasn't really nice of me, I agree. But in a way, he set us up. He knew it was going to happen, and he also knew that girl would never consider being with him. Again, not cool, but not such a big backstab either.

You look pretty sad/low energy in your photo, it's a selfie so I'm guessing that's your energy in a "neutral" state.
Do you have a history of malnutrition/overtraining/insomnia/loneliness/emotional abuse or other stressors?
Sorry if it's out of place.

[Leo Gura]

1) Guys get friendzoned because they haven't learned game. Once you learn game you will never be friendzoned.

2) It is possible for a guy to have girls as friends, but only if he has a girlfriend, not as some thirsty Incel.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Leo Gura

[ivankiss]

@Schizophonia I am going through something, yes. Thanks for noticing.

All is well.

[Juan]

4 hours ago, ivankiss said:

 

It was quite a while a go and I never did anything like that again. It wasn't really nice of me, I agree. But in a way, he set us up. He knew it was going to happen, and he also knew that girl would never consider being with him. Again, not cool, but not such a big backstab either.

@ivankiss I understand, is ok, I had fucked up in the past too. 

[Emerald]

Certainly there are women who exist who want to take advantage. And men who act servant-like will attract women who want to take advantage.

But usually friendzone means when a guy is attracted to a woman but dishonestly positions himself as a friend in order to try to make the woman like him by being super friendly.

And he does this without any actual  interest in being friends.

And because attraction doesn’t work that way, he feels side-lined and taken advantage of when she isn’t attracted to him… because he was thinking doing things for her would lead to her being attracted to him, when it really just made her feel like she has a good friend.

And then she feels upset because she thought she had a genuine friend when he was really just pretending to be her friend to fulfill his own agenda.

This is usually what’s happening when a guy complains about friend-zoning. 

So, I come to this with a degree of skepticism at the lines about women knowing they’re doing this. 

I remember when my middle school best guy friend (who I was very close with)… he asked me out when we were 13 or 14 and I said that I don’t see him that way. And he told me he felt like our several year-long friendship had been a waste of his time. And that was pretty hurtful.

[Jordan]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

1) Guys get friendzoned because they haven't learned game. Once you learn game you will never be friendzoned.

2) It is possible for a guy to have girls as friends, but only if he has a girlfriend, not as some thirsty Incel.

This hasn't been my experience. I have no interest in having female friends unless I don't have a girlfriend. If a girl likes you a lot as a friend then she will help you get a girlfriend. It is very useful to have at least one female friend if you don't have a girlfriend.

I had a very close female friend when I was around 20 and a virgin and had no girlfriend. I really enjoyed the time I spent with her. I didn't really want to have sex with her but was still open to it and she made it clear she just wanted to be friends. She would hang out with me and invite her girl friends along. Her friends often seemed to think I was cute. I am pretty sure she talked me up to them when I wasn't around. She moved back to Colombia and I haven't seen her in over 10 years but if we got back together I think we would go back to being close friends as long as it doesn't make our partners jealous. 

I think it worked with me because I find it a super turn off if a girl does not find me really sexy. I really have no interest in woman that I think don't like me in that way. 

The female friend I had, I would prefer to not have sex with her but I would probably do it if I was single and she really needed it because her heart was broken or something but make it clear we will go back to being just friends after she gets better. I am pretty sure that still counts as just being friends. 

Now I have a girlfriend that I have been with for 10 years. I find her sexier than anyone else. I have sex 1-3x a week with her still after 10 years and have no interest in being friends with or having fun with other girls. 

If something happened and I became single again and ready to date again, I probably would try to increase my social circle making several good female friends that we make it clear we don't want to have sex with until I found a girlfriend with their help.

[Gesundheit2]

7 hours ago, Lila9 said:

People (I would refer specifically to men and women) might have a good sexual chemistry but nothing to talk about, people might have things in common but no sexual tention or attraction,

That's not how I operate. Sexual interest leads to general interest, and general interest leads to sexual interest. I can't separate those two, and I don't think I should. Any girl I'm not interested in generally, I'm not interested in her sexually. And any girl I'm not interested in sexually, I'm not interested in her generally. I think that's how all people operate, even women. The only reason people socialize is to gain some value, whatever that might be to them. The only scenario that I can be platonic with a woman is if I have a specific interest in her that is not sexual interest. Like for example, she is a good teacher, and I like her delivery. That's the value I'm getting, so I'm fine with being platonic. In fact, I want to be platonic, and if she would try to suggest something more, I would friendzone her, maybe even ghost her eventually.

Now I'll explain to you briefly why it has nothing to do with being developed Green or whatever. For women, it's easier to be platonic with males, because:

1. Women benefit from these kinds of relationships a lot more than men do. They get free validation, ego boosts, physical and psychological and in some cases even financial support. Men on the other hand, we get all that from the sex. So basically, no sex, no value, no interest, no friendship.
2. There are plenty of awkward males who are lonely and desperate (I've been one). Any male who is not awkward nor desperate would not tolerate having a woman in his life that he is interested in sexually but she is not. I don't have people in my life that I'm not interested in. Even my guy friends, they have something that interests me, even though it isn't sexual. It's usually something that I lack and they have, be it in personality or otherwise.

Quote

If I would have friendzoned him I would feel some repressed anger and  frustration in him. Men who feel like they have been friendzoned have this passive agressive aspect in them and a lot of repressed anger and I feel this well in people, no matter how hard they may try to hide it, because I'm empathic and because I've experienced that.

You did not friendzoned him. He friendzoned himself. Seems used to it.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Gesundheit2

[Roy]

Picture the friendzone as an island in the ocean of the relationship world. It's where most decent, honest men (and some creeps) are relegated to by women prior to them gaining experience and learning what is good for them. After having their time and their youth wasted getting ran through, cheated on, abused, and manipulated by dazzling wolves. Then when they finally gain wisdom they come back to the island to see it's all but deserted; all the self-respecting men have either starved to death, built a raft to escape, or already been picked up by other women looking to settle before they get too old.

Women live in the moment of emotion whirlwind, and generally don't have the foresight to see what men will become from their character. They only judge them based on how they currently are, and if they get swept up enough in that whirlwind in that frame of time. That's why they will stay in a relationship with a scumbag for years, "I can fix him. I can change him." Hoping for that initial moment again. It's also why they overwhelmingly initiate divorce and end relationships, because they realize they made a mistake.

Unfortunately in our culture it has worked out that men seem to gain value or time, and women lose it. I'm literally experiencing this in my own life in real time. I got rejected and friend-zoned at the rate of a machine gun firing as a young teenager by my equals, now that I'm aging and developing myself all those opportunities are opening up at an exponential rate and they are clawing for me, but I'm no longer interested in them as they are losing their looks and their maturity has stagnated because well, they simply had no incentive to develop themselves and could coast on other traits.

It's like we are on different trains and I'm waving as we pass each other by. Ladies could have got on the right train at the first stop, but they didn't and I don't feel bad for them. You paid for your ticket, no refunds.

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

5 hours ago, Schizophonia said:

@Lila9
There are a lot of Incels or insecure persons in general who “instinctively” become far right/masculinist/hard liberal or different blue or orange stage values in general.

I believe they are afraid of not being able to be loved in a world dominated by the green stage because they find themselves inside/outside too ugly, and think that their only way to receive love is through self-sacrifice, violence, straightness.

(without saying that the majority of people at these courses are like that, of course.)

When I was little I was traumatized by loneliness, family problems, bad bad company with me etc.  I liked the idea of being far right/in a religion because I finally felt like I was in some kind of power and uniqueness.  At the same time, the only way to approach other people and especially women was to talk nonsense and therefore pass myself off as a weird and dangerous guy.

 

I realized much later through psychedelics and honest introspection that it was because I considered myself too unlovable to just give love and try to create a normal relationship.

right on target. a perfect analysis

[Gesundheit2]

1 hour ago, Lila9 said:

What is in your guy friends that make you intrested in them and why do you think that the value they give you is something that women can't give you?

Actually now that I think about it, I'm not really interested in my guy friends either. I'm mostly just coping.

Thanks for the input, though. It was insightful and I have to contemplate it more.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Gesundheit2

[Arcangelo]

On 2/24/2023 at 3:23 PM, Leo Gura said:

1) Guys get friendzoned because they haven't learned game. Once you learn game you will never be friendzoned.

2) It is possible for a guy to have girls as friends, but only if he has a girlfriend, not as some thirsty Incel.

fax