Virgin shaming is largely responsible for incel culture

[Chives99]

Guys like to bully each other to get to the top, ive encountered it during college and university , it really does make you feel worthless and your life is pointless. I saw one post on here where a guy said someone told him to kill himself because he was worthless to women, when it feels like the whole world is against you, it can make you feel miserable and bitter and when a persons self esteem is so low they feel like uttter crap. Feeling hurt can make people lash out, some people do kill themselves some people just act like a total creep to lash out at the world and in more extreme scenarios mass shootings and paedophilia since they feel like they dont belong with the world of adults but feel angry for not being accepted its form of lashing out to make people think twice about marginalising people like them in the future. This activity is all unconscious but i feel society is just so unhelpful in how they treat maginalised groups. Not agreeing with their actions either but this is where it stems from

Edited February 22, 2023 by Chives99

[Breakingthewall]

the sexual matter is something truly poisonous, both for men and women. it is a very complicated matter. the sexual capital that each one has, their social value as an individual. Let's see, if you have an accident and your hand is cut off, bye. zero. You're out. what does this show? that the whole dating and sex thing is total corruption, utter falsehood, ego in its lowest and cheapest form. We, those of us who consider ourselves human, should be proud of not having sex and only doing it when it is the real union between two beings, when there is true magic, true love. if not, garbage for monkeys

 

[Devin]

I agree. The lose your virginity crap is just that, crap. Sex is stupid without intimate connection.

Edited February 22, 2023 by Devin

[Chives99]

Ive being doing some serious contemplation into what was cutting me off from gods love and this seemed to be the biggest issue, feeling marginalised  in the world of adults, people can be so cruel.

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, Chives99 said:

Ive being doing some serious contemplation into what was cutting me off from gods love and this seemed to be the biggest issue, feeling marginalised  in the world of adults, people can be so cruel.

it is a complicated matter. If you're out, you feel like you're missing the biggest thing. If you're in, it's fake and stupid. the solution? I don't know

[Jodistrict]

America is still a puritanical country, and people come up with all kinds of silly beliefs about sex.  Other cultures treat sex as part of nature and don’t make a big deal about it.   In general, all cultures are toxic to some degree.  Try your best to avoid abusive people and be very, very careful who you listen to.  

Edited February 22, 2023 by Jodistrict

[Eyowey]

Incel culture is a consequence of straightness being demonized. I feel literally like it's a crime to be straight. Talking to a girl feels like a crime.

[Devin]

6 minutes ago, Eyowey said:

Incel culture is a consequence of straightness being demonized. I feel literally like it's a crime to be straight. Talking to a girl feels like a crime.

Are you only talking to them to have sex? This hasn't been my experience, but I'm 32 and in the states, maybe the young girls are like this?

[supremeyingyang]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

it is a complicated matter. If you're out, you feel like you're missing the biggest thing. If you're in, it's fake and stupid. the solution? I don't know

become an anarch: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eumeswil#Themes

36 minutes ago, Eyowey said:

Incel culture is a consequence of straightness being demonized. I feel literally like it's a crime to be straight. Talking to a girl feels like a crime.

Interesting, do you live in the US?

1 hour ago, Chives99 said:

Ive being doing some serious contemplation into what was cutting me off from gods love and this seemed to be the biggest issue, feeling marginalised  in the world of adults, people can be so cruel.

See, I had that as well to some degree. So solution for you might be to find better people and let your wounds heal. Unfortunately you gonna revisted what caused it..

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

We, those of us who consider ourselves human, should be proud of not having sex and only doing it when it is the real union between two beings, when there is true magic, true love. if not, garbage for monkeys

 

What do you mean by real union?  I don't think the vast majority is super promiscuous, but I don't understand why one sleeps without some kind of connection either

Edited February 22, 2023 by supremeyingyang

[Breakingthewall]

there is only one way, with sex, and with everything in life. society must be completely forgotten. does not exist. only I exist. everything revolves around me, I am the sovereign, reality itself, who dictates the law. there is no triumph or failure. It's just me, making love to myself.

what is the depth of your love? the greater it is, the richer its manifestation will be. forget the rest, does not exist, they are just ideas in your mind, like everything else

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Eyowey said:

Talking to a girl feels like a crime.

What makes you think that? What happens when you talk to a girl?

[Chives99]

3 hours ago, Eyowey said:

Incel culture is a consequence of straightness being demonized. I feel literally like it's a crime to be straight. Talking to a girl feels like a crime.

straightness is not demonised, are we on the same planet? the human race would die out if that was the case. Some girls can be nasty if they arent attracted to you, but that seems rare most are very polite if you show interest . If they're interested in you, they'll definitely let you know. My post here was about guys bullying each other over sex

Edited February 22, 2023 by Chives99

[Noahsteelers34]

Incel stems from an obsession, and a pedestalizing of hot women. Guys sees hot girls, wishes he could have sex and relationship, but is forever miserable and depressed because he cant get it. He blames the world for this 

Everything would change if he realizes -> your happiness in life is not dependent on women

If I gave him all the sex and relationships he wanted he would still be miserable. guys are so obsessed with sex and women that they cannot enjoy their own life. 

 

 

[Chives99]

@Noahsteelers34  most of them will be probably on the spectrum, too much of  a self focus

[Roy]

Virgin shaming didn't cause the Incel phenomena. Technology, culture, and feminism did.

If anything I'd argue bullying people for being virgins is a net good thing, because it gives people negative reinforcement and encouragement to do something about it. Inceldom is the acceptance that you are somehow powerless and doomed, which of course is complete nonsense and bullshit.

When I was in school the people virgin shaming was just boys being boys and teasing each other, but in the end they would try and help you get laid because they understand how big a rite of passage it is.

Now the most extreme virgins have shot themselves in the foot by isolating themselves from everything and not accepting any help at all.

Is having sex the end all be all of life? Of course not, but I'd say it's much better to make it happen at a young age, because that part of your life only gets exponentially harder as you age. Getting laid is not a problem at all when you're young and forced to be in school/college, surrounded by hundreds of female acquaintances. Once you are out of school though you are responsible for generating nearly 100% of your encounters, which of course most people are too lazy to create for themselves.

[Chives99]

Society is so sex obsessed, back when my paerents were my age in the 80s , people still didnt blab about their intimate sexual details with one another, now when I'm at work I can hear people talk about intimate sexual acts with their partner, so crass, it makes people feel like they dont belong in the world if thats normal , theres little barrier between the social domain and the intimate domain

[Devin]

1 hour ago, Chives99 said:

Society is so sex obsessed, back when my paerents were my age in the 80s , people still didnt blab about their intimate sexual details with one another, now when I'm at work I can hear people talk about intimate sexual acts with their partner, so crass, it makes people feel like they dont belong in the world if thats normal , theres little barrier between the social domain and the intimate domain

In the UK? You're supposed to be prudes. In the states the only time I've heard that is from idiots, and it's rare, except for with those particular idiots.

[mr_engineer]

@Roy If I were a woman reading what you wrote, I would not be happy seeing you think that 'getting laid is a rite of passage'. It would make me feel objectified. It's a conquest-mindset and women are the trophy in your 'rite of passage'. 

Most women want this stigma of male virginity gone. Because they are aware that it is responsible for guys' bitterness and resentfulness for not having gotten laid early. Especially when there is such a huge double-standard of men with a higher body-count seen as 'higher-value' and women with a higher body-count seen as 'lower-value'. This is also responsible for the female stigma of 'sluttiness' and it causes the average guy a lot of problems in getting laid, because women don't want to look like sluts in front of their friends. This value-metric/status-metric is not sustainable precisely because it puts the agendas of both sides at odds with each other. 

I would argue that having a past of casual sex is detrimental to your ability to have a long-term relationship even if you're a guy. Because it brings about negative patterns in your ways of getting laid, that may or may not apply in long-term relationship. A lot of PUAs are simply using casual sex as an escape from attachment-style problems. They're avoidant and they just want sex, so they learn some game first and then hop from one woman to the next. Is this sustainable in relationship, if they do fall in love one day?! Nope. And, the first step to recognizing this is to take away the stigma of male virginity. 

Edited February 24, 2023 by mr_engineer

[Roy]

2 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

I would argue that having a past of casual sex is detrimental to your ability to have a long-term relationship even if you're a guy.

I disagree.

I think stigmas and double standards exist because they are fundamental and necessary to balance our evolution sociologically and biologically. Which ones merit existence and to what degree is where the debate lies.

The idea that men and women are equal, and every area of the playing field needs to be completely leveled with a scrupulous egalitarian laser is laughable at best and naïve at worst. Yes maybe under the law, and in the vague humanitarian sense. However we aren't actually the same and shouldn't be viewed or treated the same.

We are literally different species with different brains and psychology, different physical attributes, and different survival agendas. I think we would be better off to raise consciousness and keen awareness of these differences so people can navigate through them, rather than try to smash them down or blissfully pretend they don't exist to placate our uncomfortable emotions.

(This isn't an accusatory statement I'm making by the way, I'm pointing to something beyond what you wrote of course. We good .)

Edited February 24, 2023 by Roy

[mr_engineer]

58 minutes ago, Roy said:

I think stigmas and double standards exist because they are fundamental and necessary to balance our evolution sociologically and biologically. Which ones merit existence and to what degree is where the debate lies.

Maybe you can make a case for stigmas. (Although, they do foment a culture of conditional love, which I'm not a big fan of) But, double-standards are a sign of low integrity, morally. 

And, these specific double-standards have been designed to appeal to the male ego first and foremost. The point of having a 'high-value man' be the guy who gets laid the most, is to justify having as much sex as they want. And, the point of having a 'high-value woman' be the virgins, is to be 100% sure that she's not carrying another man's child. 

54 minutes ago, Roy said:

The idea that men and women are equal, and every area of the playing field needs to be completely leveled with a scrupulous egalitarian laser is laughable at best and naïve at worst. Yes maybe under the law, and in the vague humanitarian sense. However we aren't actually the same and shouldn't be viewed or treated the same. 

We are literally different species with different brains and psychology, different physical attributes, and different survival agendas. I think we would be better off to raise consciousness and keen awareness of these differences so people can navigate through them, rather than try to smash them down or blissfully pretend they don't exist to placate our uncomfortable emotions.

I'm not arguing for 'equality' here. In the other thread, I went to great lengths to argue for acknowledging the differences. 

My issue here is that when we define 'high-value man' and 'high-value woman' based on sexual history and we have these specific standards, the agendas of both sides go at odds with each other. This is a problem, because in order to make a relationship work, both sides have to set aside their egos and focus on the relationship first, which is a system. And this system must be designed to meet the needs of all parties involved in a sustainable way. 

1 hour ago, Roy said:

(This isn't an accusatory statement I'm making by the way, I'm pointing to something beyond what you wrote of course. We good .)

No hard feelings here either. ?