Carnivore diet is a life changer

[Stovo]

Yeah unprocessed red meat is some of the best food on the planet. Fish is really good too. 

[tezk]

Red meat & eggs really help my body to recover from POIS. They also give me tonnes of energy and libido. In saying that, I haven't tried eating a large amount of vegetables. I currently follow a gluten-free whole foods diet and that serves me very well.

Edited February 22, 2023 by tezk

[ZenAlex]

I'm loving how Veganism has crept into this discussion, and it's the same bullshit over and over again.

Finding examples of weak and emaciated vegans to back up your point is stupid, you can do that with any diet.

[Stovo]

11 hours ago, ZenAlex said:

I'm loving how Veganism has crept into this discussion, and it's the same bullshit over and over again.

Finding examples of weak and emaciated vegans to back up your point is stupid, you can do that with any diet.

I do observe, however, that vegans, or those who eat little meat, tend to have significantly lower muscle mass than those who eat a lot of meat. 

Generally it's because they're deficient in protein, key nutrients and vitamins.

[Ima Freeman]

@Leo Gura

Cholesterol is not bad by itself. Everybody should have some.

[UnbornTao]

12 hours ago, Stovo said:

I do observe, however, that vegans, or those who eat little meat, tend to have significantly lower muscle mass than those who eat a lot of meat. 

Generally it's because they're deficient in protein, key nutrients and vitamins.

Not a vegetarian myself. What you say is of course possible. In my view, though, that's not a feature of veganism per se but relates to the individual choices made within that parameter. Your vegan diet could consist of French fries and coke.

There're overall healthy vegans out there. When it comes to muscle mass, look up vegan bodybuilders.

[Stovo]

@UnbornTao Yeah I agree. 

Cutting out meat requires special attention so your body maintains adequate nutrition & protein but few vegans are willing to put in the work. 

 

[EugeneTheSage]

What do you guys mean by processed and unprocessed meat? Unprocessed means raw? Or does it mean it wasn't processed in high temperatures like in McDonalds but boiled/baked?

[UnbornTao]

@EugeneTheSage https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/why-processed-meat-is-bad

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/red-meat-processed-meat-is-still-bad-for-your-health#Do-you-need-to-give-up-meat?

[dualnon]

On 21/02/2023 at 3:20 AM, StarStruck said:

If you meditate on it

essentially "trust me bro"

[EdgeGod900]

@dualnon I think you meant, "essentially 'direct experience bro.' "

 

Besides, lots of studies on this topic are conflicted. This is just one example of many ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8305097/ ). There's quote on this study that struck me a bit,  "The grading of the evidence for red meat was decreased from sufficient in 2007 to probable in 2018. This may have been caused by published meta-analyses failing to show a significant overall effect and geographical differences with significant effects observed in Europe but not in the Americas or Asia." 

 

Just a side note, your use of "trust me bro" is cringe. It legit got me triggered.

Edited February 25, 2023 by EdgeGod900

[StarStruck]

@dualnon @EdgeGod900

Meditation = direct exp

So you can meditate on a diet.

Try vegan diet for one month and meditate on the diet for one month (feeling and experiencing the diet instead of thinking about it)

Do the same for a carnivore diet and notice the difference.

The problem with a lot of vegans is that they don't use direct exp to find out what the best diet is for them, they come with emotional baggage and judgemental-ism and they fuck up their body and end up in hospital.

[Asayake]

2 hours ago, StarStruck said:

@dualnon @EdgeGod900

Meditation = direct exp

So you can meditate on a diet.

Try vegan diet for one month and meditate on the diet for one month (feeling and experiencing the diet instead of thinking about it)

Do the same for a carnivore diet and notice the difference.

The problem with a lot of vegans is that they don't use direct exp to find out what the best diet is for them, they come with emotional baggage and judgemental-ism and they fuck up their body and end up in hospital.

Have you tried eating vegan first hand or otherwise your direct epxerience is hypocritical. It's not only that a lot of vegan don't use direct experience to find out what the best diet is for them, that goes for most people regardless of diet. A vegan diet can work perfectly fine, there are just a lot of traps you can fall into like unsustainable low fat raw veganism. There are also traps in carnivore I'm sure, there are probably mistakes you can make that will take time to show. It's unlikely you're going to do everything right from the get go. But yes, every vegan isn't healthy, there are unhealthy ways to eat plant based.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Asayake

[EdgeGod900]

@StarStruck Agreed. Tried vegan diet for 3 months. It wasn't bad but I'm always hungry after an hour of eating lol. I tried carnivore. Eating lots of meat in the morning makes me extremely sharp and productive for the rest of the day. It also seems like beef/lamb/moose/dear/bison are the only one that really makes me feel good. Chicken, fish, and pork don't do anything to me.

 

BTW, the fact that @dualnon said that about what you said shows that he doesn't get the importance of direct exp. And that phrase that he specifically used is common in alot of redditors, youtube, and twitch nerds, so it really pissed me the fuck off by how cringey it is.

Edited February 25, 2023 by EdgeGod900

[Schizophonia]

3 hours ago, Asayake said:

Have you tried eating vegan first hand or otherwise your direct epxerience is hypocritical. It's not only that a lot of vegan don't use direct experience to find out what the best diet is for them, that goes for most people regardless of diet. A vegan diet can work perfectly fine, there are just a lot of traps you can fall into like unsustainable low fat raw veganism. There are also traps in carnivore I'm sure, there are probably mistakes you can make that will take time to show. It's unlikely you're going to do everything right from the get go. But yes, every vegan isn't healthy, there are unhealthy ways to eat plant based.

I did a vegan week, I was energetic but I've never been so mean / snide, when I saw someone with a characteristic I didn't like I couldn't help but say "oh he is said to be stupid/ugly/weak etc, hmmm!!!".
I see a lot of vegans with this kind of irritating behavior, so maybe it's the food, I don't know.

I also go a lot of gas 
And brain fog caused by legumes.

[StarStruck]

40 minutes ago, Schizophonia said:

I did a vegan week, I was energetic but I've never been so mean / snide, when I saw someone with a characteristic I didn't like I couldn't help but say "oh he is said to be stupid/ugly/weak etc, hmmm!!!".
I see a lot of vegans with this kind of irritating behavior, so maybe it's the food, I don't know.

I also go a lot of gas 
And brain fog caused by legumes.

I can recognize vegans by their attitude alone. They are not happy and they want everyone not to be happy. Hell is a lonely place. But I didn’t know they also produced a lot of gas. Talking about co2 omissions. ?

4 hours ago, EdgeGod900 said:

@StarStruck Agreed. Tried vegan diet for 3 months. It wasn't bad but I'm always hungry after an hour of eating lol. I tried carnivore. Eating lots of meat in the morning makes me extremely sharp and productive for the rest of the day. It also seems like beef/lamb/moose/dear/bison are the only one that really makes me feel good. Chicken, fish, and pork don't do anything to me.

 

BTW, the fact that @dualnon said that about what you said shows that he doesn't get the importance of direct exp. And that phrase that he specifically used is common in alot of redditors, youtube, and twitch nerds, so it really pissed me the fuck off by how cringey it is.

Same. Red meat hits different. I’m a very body conscious eater and I listen to what my body needs. When I get that red meat craving and I buy that rib eye or something. I bake it medium rare with salt and pepper. The moment I put it in my mouth I feel so alive. No other foods gives me this energy. 

And no it is not an addiction. An addictions robs you of energy (like cigarettes, fastfood or vegan diet), red meat actually gives me explosive power. My metabolism is made for meat. I also have a big brain and I do a lot of thinking and I’m into sports like boxing. No vegan diet can sustain my body and mind. 
 

4 hours ago, Asayake said:

Have you tried eating vegan first hand or otherwise your direct epxerience is hypocritical. It's not only that a lot of vegan don't use direct experience to find out what the best diet is for them, that goes for most people regardless of diet. A vegan diet can work perfectly fine, there are just a lot of traps you can fall into like unsustainable low fat raw veganism. There are also traps in carnivore I'm sure, there are probably mistakes you can make that will take time to show. It's unlikely you're going to do everything right from the get go. But yes, every vegan isn't healthy, there are unhealthy ways to eat plant based.

Yes I did. And it made me feel like a zombie.

Vegans claim we aren’t meat eaters so it shouldn’t be so difficult to maintain a fucking basic diet. Even with modern nutrition tech it just doesn’t work. Vegans need to learn to

1. read the room

2. need to meditate on their diet and what kind of effect it has on their body and mind

There are some exceptions. Usually Asians or smaller people survive better on a vegan diet but very little thrive on it. Especially when vegans hit their 30-40 it starts to raise a toll on their body and mind. 

[Michael569]

On 25/02/2023 at 4:23 PM, StarStruck said:

My metabolism is made for meat. I also have a big brain and I do a lot of thinking and I’m into sports like boxing. No vegan diet can sustain my body and mind. 

Why do you always turn to veganism as if that was the only other option? Between Veganism and Carnivore lay a fertile ground of hundreds of variations of Mediterranean / Omnivorous types of diets. 

I do get that a lot of vegans tend to come across as somewhat dismissive and even arrogant. I've seen a lot of that. Some of it comes from a place of genuine care, some from place of pure superiority complex and some from a place of confusion where the person criticising is still unclear in what they believe in and their position is not too strong so they attack everyone because they feel insecure. 

From a personal experience, I can tell you that as somebody who has been in martial arts and fighting sports for about 16 years I don't really see much difference in energy. When I work on a boxing bag, carbohydrates rather than protein seem to be a determinant of my energy levels. I can go as well loaded on beans and tofu as I can be loaded on chicken (which isn't that often other than when I visit my home country). The main driver here is your level of experience (e.g. how efficiently can your body utilise energy before getting winded), your cardiorespiratory fitness (as measured by V02 max) and probably the sleep you had last night. 

In terms of brain size, that is limited by the size of your skull however, if you refer to neuroplasticity, there is very little evidence to show that nutrition (where the person is not malnourished) has a huge impact (all things being equal). If you put a 100 carnivore and a 100 vegan cohorts next to each other, make sure their diet is equal in calories and micros, they will likely perform not that differently on a series of cognitive tests. I would love to see something like that one day. 

I do think the carnivore diet will make you stronger tho because of certain nutrients but maybe where controlled for calories and protein, a trained carnivore and trained vegan wouldn't be that far apart in a series of strength, power, speed and agility tests. Would love to see that data too. Maybe someone could ask Andy Galpin to run such experiment in the lab.  

Edited February 26, 2023 by Michael569

[StarStruck]

@Michael569 I eat mostly Mediterranean anyway. That is where I'm from and it fits my genetics.

A major negative about those studies is that they forget about the genetics of people. For example Asians and Europeans will respond differently to the same diet. So making cross references between vegan and carnivore diets or other diets is skewed because it doesn't take account the genetics of different kind of people.

As far as I know, humans have developed large brains because we cooked meat which is highly nutritious and easy to digest, which allowed up to develop superior brain and mind. If you have a bigger brain, you will have a hard time feeding it if you don't eat meat as far as I understand. That is why vegans develop a lot of mental illnesses in my opinion, their brain is not getting enough fuel so to say and they go ape shit, literally.

https://www.psypost.org/2020/05/meat-eaters-tend-to-have-better-psychological-health-than-vegetarians-56698

[Michael569]

11 hours ago, StarStruck said:

@Michael569 I eat mostly Mediterranean anyway. That is where I'm from and it fits my genetics.

A major negative about those studies is that they forget about the genetics of people. For example Asians and Europeans will respond differently to the same diet. So making cross references between vegan and carnivore diets or other diets is skewed because it doesn't take account the genetics of different kind of people.

As far as I know, humans have developed large brains because we cooked meat which is highly nutritious and easy to digest, which allowed up to develop superior brain and mind. If you have a bigger brain, you will have a hard time feeding it if you don't eat meat as far as I understand. That is why vegans develop a lot of mental illnesses in my opinion, their brain is not getting enough fuel so to say and they go ape shit, literally.

https://www.psypost.org/2020/05/meat-eaters-tend-to-have-better-psychological-health-than-vegetarians-56698

You might be right on the brain development thing. But you also gotta consider that we are talking about a time when lifespan was maybe 30-35 years. So yah, figuring out humans can eat meat and survive more effectively was a major evolutionary benefit.

I didn't really want to go into this but how do you know brain adaptation wasn't due to survival adaptability (learning to hunt, track, harvest and preserve animals, build tools, traps, observe behaviour) rather than a meat itself. Would certainly be a question for evolutionarily anthropologist.

Vegans might be prone to more psychological distress, maybe. The article you shared is based on a systematic review of cross sectional evidence. By design, cross sectional study cannot infer neither causality nor association, it is actually a pretty useless study where other evidence is available. 

Finally, how do you know that depression in vegans cannot be caused by extended empathy for the wellbeing of animals and the way most humans don't give a fuck about the cruelty of animal farming? I'd say vegans are depressed because they feel misunderstood and kinda facing an impossible task (we could talk about the epistemiology of stage green but this is not the time and place).

It is important we don't make haste conclusions where none can be made  because, again, cross sectional evidence is quite low at the hierarchy of evidence and the real answer is that we don't know why in that article, vegans showed more psychological distress. 

Btw hearing that you are mostly Mediterranean eater is a good news, somehow I thought you are a hard ass carnivore ?

Anyways, I'll leave this thread now. Not looking for a fight here just challenging your opinions as i think you are being a bit unfair with the vegans and maybe...a bit biased? ..but then we all are one way or another.

Take Care

Edited February 27, 2023 by Michael569

[SeaMonster]

On 2/20/2023 at 8:39 AM, acidgoofy said:

Feeling good isn't always an indicator that something is good and working for you.

That is a silly argument.  There's a difference between feeling good over a period of weeks, months and years and having a several hour high which is followed by a crash.  You can't possibly believe that's a reasonable argument.

Edited February 27, 2023 by SeaMonster