Is it worth having children?

[r0ckyreed]

I have a girlfriend.  I have known her since high school, and we recently got together. 

One of the concerns I have is that she wants kids by age 35, and I am not so certain.

We both know that we don't want kids right now but she wants them later when her career has been established.

I, on the other hand, am still uncertain and unclear as to whether I want kids or not.

Kids are a huge responsibility and does not seem like something that is in my top 10 values.  

But, on the other hand, I am not for sure if having children is something that I will want in the future or is something I would regret not doing.

I really love the woman I am with, but I can see that years down the road, this issue of having children will be the deciding factor of our relationship.

What are your alls thoughts on having children?

Are children helpful to self-actualization and spiritual awakening and doing serious philosophy?

I can imagine that having children would make it hard to be a Serious Philosopher.

What are your alls thoughts?

[aurum]

@r0ckyreed You may want to watch Leo’s video on reproduction being an illusion, perhaps even with your girlfriend if she’s open to it. Then ya’ll can make a more conscious decision.

Be warned though, if your girlfriend really wants kids, she is unlikely to like that video. It’s going to be very threatening to her. So keep that in mind.

My personal thoughts are that having kids is not my highest priority. If I feel like having them will get in the way of those priorities, I will probably not have them. But if I’m in a relationship with the right women it could happen. I think I could enjoy being a dad.

1 hour ago, r0ckyreed said:

Are children helpful to self-actualization and spiritual awakening and doing serious philosophy?

Technically it’s possible. Some people’s spiritual awakening gets kickstarted by a traumatic event like the death of their child. So you never know. Life is twisted.

At the same time though, I’d say it’s not a safe strategy to bank on. Notice how many people are parents but are not doing serious philosophy or awakening work. Your life mostly just becomes about taking care of your kids.

[r0ckyreed]

13 hours ago, aurum said:

If I feel like having them will get in the way of those priorities, I will probably not have them. But if I’m in a relationship with the right women it could happen. I think I could enjoy being a dad.

This is how I feel. I feel like I am in a relationship with the right woman. She checks off just about every box for me. My only fear is having children, but maybe my desires will change 10 years later. I am 26 now. If I have kids, then that is an irreversible decision that I would have to live with and be responsible for. 

However, why not both? Why can’t I have a family and be a Serious Philosopher? Maybe it isn’t either or.

[Bob Seeker]

What if you found a community or if you have older family members between you two who could do most of the raising? 

CWG series says parents were never meant to be the primary caregivers, the community elders were. 

Its only our current society that isolates couples into their own houses to raise their own kids.

This period won't last forever. 

Its kind of like this idea of sleeping in the same bed as your wife. The ancient romans weren't doing that. 

[Matthew85]

On 2/18/2023 at 3:03 PM, r0ckyreed said:

What are your alls thoughts on having children?

Are children helpful to self-actualization and spiritual awakening and doing serious philosophy?

I think all relationships help us grow and expand. Having children will certainly expand the diversely of experiences for you in this life, but you shouldn't feel obligated to have them. Once I had the awareness that I was an eternal being it took the pressure off of having to get everything right in this life. If I don't experience it in this  life, I  have eternity to have endless different experiences. 

[aurum]

10 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

My only fear is having children, but maybe my desires will change 10 years later. I am 26 now. If I have kids, then that is an irreversible decision that I would have to live with and be responsible for. 

 

Yup. It’s a big commitment.

10 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

However, why not both? Why can’t I have a family and be a Serious Philosopher? Maybe it isn’t either or.

I wouldn’t say it necessarily has to be either or. But I would say it’s a bit naive to think that having kids won’t come with real tradeoffs. Even small choices have tradeoffs. 

The key is to correctly identity those tradeoffs as best you can and decide if it’s still worth it. One of those tradeoffs is that you may not have as much alone time to simply sit around and contemplate. Most new parents I talk to struggle to find any time for themselves.

[Emerald]

I have two children… one is 11 and the other will be 8 next month. And I’ve been a mom since I was 22.

And I find that the way I could describe how this has impacted my personal development is in the statement, “The obstacle is the path”

Taking care of another human being is difficult and it matures you in ways that you can’t mature otherwise. And you learn a lot about family and the cycle of life.

And it can be a limiting factor. I can’t just go and travel and go on spiritual retreats willy nilly. And I have to focus on what’s best for them, which sometimes requires sacrifice.

That said, the sacrifice and limitation is also a learning experience.

I feel that my personal development has shaken out differently than it would have had I not had kids. But I suspect that things are probably equivalent as I don’t see many non-parents that I’d describe as more developed than me for their independent focus. I don’t feel behind in any way.

Plus, I will have two adult children at age 43. So, if I want to, I can spend my 40s doing all the independent adventurous things that were not possible in my 20s as a young parent.

[Danioover9000]

@r0ckyreed

On 2/18/2023 at 11:03 PM, r0ckyreed said:

I have a girlfriend.  I have known her since high school, and we recently got together. 

One of the concerns I have is that she wants kids by age 35, and I am not so certain.

We both know that we don't want kids right now but she wants them later when her career has been established.

I, on the other hand, am still uncertain and unclear as to whether I want kids or not.

Kids are a huge responsibility and does not seem like something that is in my top 10 values.  

But, on the other hand, I am not for sure if having children is something that I will want in the future or is something I would regret not doing.

I really love the woman I am with, but I can see that years down the road, this issue of having children will be the deciding factor of our relationship.

What are your alls thoughts on having children?

Are children helpful to self-actualization and spiritual awakening and doing serious philosophy?

I can imagine that having children would make it hard to be a Serious Philosopher.

What are your alls thoughts?

   My thoughts, are that it depends on stages of development and the value system you hold, cognitive and moral development, personality types and traits, states of consciousness, life/lived experiences so far, other lines of development in various areas of life, and ideologies indoctrinated into you from birth and upbringing.

   I would say stay open minded and consider just the major issues and some minor ones in your context, what impact a person would have fathering children in, for example a traditional nuclear family unit in this earth more, what contributions potential could be made, positively or negatively, to society and the world.

   Also, helpful to think like a father, and do various visualizations of you being a Dad, and invest 15+ years of parenting. Does it make you uncomfortable, or does it make you a bit motivated to go and become a Dad? Also, any Ego development issues, and shadows around the father should be dealt with in psychotherapy before becoming a Dad yourself, because highly likely you will have a self fulfilling prophesy of any traumas or limitations of your own Father.

[Danioover9000]

@r0ckyreed Basically, if you mostly feel not ready, don't have children, you may regret it. Personally, it's a no for me to have a family, I can feel the energy and time going into that is a negative more than a positive.

[Devin]

Be a philosopher later, you'll have that looming question stuck in the back of your mind otherwise, you'll probably live till 80, plenty of time to philosophie in your wise years.

[puporing]

Just depends on what you feel called to do, what do you want this life to be. It's perfectly good if you don't want to have children and commit to that decision (when you arrive at such clarity), likewise in the other case. 

Also, an interesting question to consider on the other side of the coin since you seem open-minded, if you were the said child, would you want to come into your family (and its social structures) and this planet (among other things in your environment)?

 

Edited February 20, 2023 by puporing

[flowboy]

On 19/02/2023 at 0:03 AM, r0ckyreed said:

Are children helpful to self-actualization and spiritual awakening and doing serious philosophy?

Imagine your dad asked his people whether creating you would be helpful to his self-actualization and spiritual awakening or not.

So self-centered, right?

Children are helpful to get out of self-centeredness.

[A_v_E]

your relationship is an idea and your girlfriend is imaginary.
you're the one asking to yourself, others are you.
 

[A_v_E]

@flowboy it doesn't matter, self centered it will be forever, no matter the non sense you want to tell yourself, fact remain fact.
reality is about you and you alone forever and ever.

or else I invite you to get in touch with reality and stop dreaming.

[flowboy]

@A_v_E I was making a point that clearly went over your head. Takes some emotional maturity.

This nondualityism is not helping anyone, you're just repeating what the guru said.

[Joyboy]

I don't know you want to have child or not but if you do, better make one before the woman age 30. 

An older mother may be at increased risk for things such as: 

-Miscarriage

-Birth defects

-Twins

-High blood pressure

-Gestational diabetes

-Difficult labor

[Bob Seeker]

1 hour ago, flowboy said:

magine your dad asked his people whether creating you would be helpful to his self-actualization and spiritual awakening or not.

This thread shows what is not right about Actualized teachings.

all necessary developmental forces are found in the nature of reality itself, in your de circumstances and in your genetic code. All you need to do is let them do their thing. If you focus on being more of yourself, you can forget about development because it will come more quickly than ever and in the ideal ways without you obstructing it.

[flowboy]

21 minutes ago, Bob Seeker said:

This thread shows what is not right about Actualized teachings.

all necessary developmental forces are found in the nature of reality itself, in your de circumstances and in your genetic code. All you need to do is let them do their thing. If you focus on being more of yourself, you can forget about development because it will come more quickly than ever and in the ideal ways without you obstructing it.

Well said.

[inFlow]

@r0ckyreed There are plenty of pros to having children and those will be said by other people here who comment, but I only want to say that you don't Love her ENOUGH  believe me, when you reach the highest levels of Love for a woman it overflows into the need to have children with her. I have a phrase that goes like "I Love you so much that I want to give you children". When a woman is SO in Love with her man, she wants to somehow materialize that Love. When you asked your Mom and Dad where did you come from they almost always say "Daddy Loved Mommy, and Mommy Loved daddy and then you came into being" they weren't lying, that the ACTUAL formula for you! It's LOVE! If you want to be a good philosopher then actually experience what's it like to be SO in Love with a woman that you WANT to have children with her

[supremeyingyang]

The Answers I read here are super  unhelpful.

@r0ckyreed

I have a similar problem, but I'm older (32). I estimate I need circa 10 years till I fulfilled my self made requirements (education, wealth, life pupose) before having children, but my GF is not able to wait that long.. she is my age. So that's a serious problem. I discuss it with her, we find a solution this year and you should do the same because if you postpone it, you bring your now GF in a bad position where she needs to find a das rather quickly. High likelyhood for desaster for her and her then child. So make a decision together and commit to it, even if it hurts. I know it sucks, but sometimes there are hard decisions.