Sexism Test - Eliminating Bias

[Devin]

They self describe it as testing for "sexism against women." Those are positive aspects for women.

[Gesundheit2]

12 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Both are related… but the general resistances are what creates the interruption of the natural dynamic and creates predictable Shadows behavior patterns.

Is there an explanation for this? Because both layers seem to be equally a direct result from early childhood conditioning.

And if resistance and repression are related, does this imply a certain relationship or a hierarchy between them? Like are they technically two different depths of the same phenomenon? Or does one like feed into the  other?

[Something Funny]

@Devin 

Quote

Benevolent Sexism: Attitudes towards women that may seem positive on the surface, but also serve to perpetuate gender stereotypes and gender inequality. For example, the belief that men should protect women; that women thrive better in nurturing roles; or that women are somehow “purer” than men may all be seen as forms of Benevolent Sexism.

 

[Something Funny]

My sister got a higher score than me, lol

[Devin]

10 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

@Devin 

 

""Women have nurturing capabilities that men could never achieve." 

"with the statement around women being more emotionally attuned."

 

These are not " perpetuating gender inequality" against women.

[Something Funny]

@Devin  yeah, I know what you mean. I guess my logic was that part of their own definition is

16 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

For example, the belief that men should protect women; that women thrive better in nurturing roles; or that women are somehow “purer”

 

And from statement "Women have nurturing capabilities that men could never achieve." one might conclude that women thrive better in nurturing roles.

Especially if you claim that this is something that men could never achieve, as per the original phrasing, than you might say that this is women's natural position in society or even a social obligation.

Which is why I found it weird that it isn't counted towards benevolent sexism.

[Something Funny]

Wow, those guys actually also have a reverse sexism test

https://www.idrlabs.com/reverse-sexism/test.php

What I find interesting is that a lot of qualities that are encouraged in personal development, such as the ones below, are technically considered sexist.

- A real man is in control of his emotions
- A real man should be daring and strong
- Real men recover speedily from emotional disturbances
- A good man is someone who is ambitious and financially successful
- A real man should defend his honor when insulted
- A real man stands up for what he believes in, even at great risk to himself

I guess there is the difference between saying "a real man is/should" or "a good man is" (kind of like a universal standard) and just saying that those are desired qualities. But still... It's pretty obvious that a vast majority of people would consider these qualities desirable and attractive in a man so we might as well says that this is kind of a universal standard of what it means to be a good man. And what's tricky is that it's not just some artificial social standard as in case with something like "women should be stay at home moms", these qualities in a man feel genuinely attractive on a subconscious level for both men and women...

So let's say I am trying to improve myself and develop emotional mastery or become more courageous and start standing up for what I believe in. Am I being sexist towards myself? From one side yeah, cause I am not being accepting enough of who I am right now. On the other side there are clear survival benefits of me developing those qualities, right?

What if I am pushing my son to develop this qualities? Am I being a caring father who worries about his well-being or am I being a sexist towards him?

A lot of Leo's advise for men is sexist by those standards, haha.

@Leo Gura, @Emerald any thoughts?

 

[ValiantSalvatore]

This time I got

0% hostile
24% benevolent

I have more bias towards men than women as a man lol. I know some of them perpetuate stereotypes, yet I find these questions kind of odd, I would also expect some of the same qualties from a women today and I would frame questions differently for example resilliance is something different than emotionally strong as well as having control of emotions, these would be self-regulatory aspects that are neutral/peaceful more harmonic?, yet I guess it does sort of reflect a hidden worldview. 

I did not even see the note:

Quote

Glick and Fiske’s sexism scales are rooted in a liberal feminist conception of gender equality. As a result, these authors see both positive and negative stereotypes as forms of sexism. People who see gender issues from a different perspective – including the perspectives of many on the right wing – would not necessarily regard Benevolent Sexism as a form of sexism, or regard the stereotypes about men featured in this test as being necessarily negative.

I saw somewhere IIRC tha this this is not to be confused with a diagnosis of any sort. As if someone would be mentally ill. It's tricky to embody qualties without making them a stereotype and just expressing that energy sort of while not having any of these worldviews. Unsure what to think about this. I'll definitely contemplate it.

I am suprised I have 0 hostile views against men and women lol.

Edited February 21, 2023 by ValiantSalvatore

[ValiantSalvatore]

37 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

- A real man should defend his honor when insulted

This was by far the stupidest question on the test imo.

In hindsight if they would give more inherently value based questions and make some contrat I dunno a real man is loving and couragous for example, instead of ambitious and successful and sort of contrast these, I'd agree with aurums statement before the test seems quiet heavy SD green.

[Something Funny]

3 minutes ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

This was by far the stupidest question on the test imo.

This was my first impression as well, but now I think that it was phrased like that intentionally. If you ask this question to a person from older generation, like your grandpa, they will probably say yes to it without thinking that it's a weird question.

But as I said that problem is that I, for example, disagree with this statement technically. But then in real life situations, like if you are out with your girlfriend and you get insulted and just "eat it", you will probably look less in her eyes then if you stand up for yourself, right?

Or even amongst man. Let's say you, as a man, know a guy who is a total doormat. Even if you are open-minded and do not agree with the above statement logically, you still won't have that high of an opinion about him. On the other side if one day he really stands up for himself, your respect for him will naturally increase. It's not even a conscious process.

[ValiantSalvatore]

19 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

This was my first impression as well, but now I think that it was phrased like that intentionally. If you ask this question to a person from older generation, like your grandpa, they will probably say yes to it without thinking that it's a weird question.

But as I said that problem is that I, for example, disagree with this statement technically. But then in real life situations, like if you are out with your girlfriend and you get insulted and just "eat it", you will probably look less in her eyes then if you stand up for yourself, right?

Or even amongst man. Let's say you, as a man, know a guy who is a total doormat. Even if you are open-minded and do not agree with the above statement logically, you still won't have that high of an opinion about him. On the other side if one day he really stands up for himself, your respect for him will naturally increase. It's not even a conscious process.

I don't really think so it really depends as long as stuff get's not physical I don't care, what someone says to me even when I get angry. I never would also hang-out with people like that nor do I know people like that. That is mostly a very very "degenerate" notion. I mostly see this as a weakness and insecurity of other men, and I never meet someone who is like this. Why should I look less in her eyes? She'd must have serious development gap, I never meet a women like this in my life, who'd act like this, many don't even expect this from me. They would most likely rather hope I don't kill the guy, with violence as it is not an option this is the response I usually get. I'd figure the kind of women I meet and date would get upset at the other guy as well as just ignore, as they rather focus on the relationship besides some opinion of some random people. In that sense defend me. Also the guys who I ran game with 99.9% of the time when some fight breaks out most "girls" who are semi-conscious either leave and or are hoping that they don't fight and defend themselves in a verbal manner. This is such monkey business, I find this pathetic. 

You can play billions of scenarios, I never meet a total doormat, I usually don't judge a lot although when I do people feel devasted so I refrain from doing it a "friend..." once told me. It's a conscious process unfortunately very conscious, these are such monkey type of behaviours this mostly does not fly in hyer-modern environments at least this is what I've witnessed. 

You can read the book our inner ape and see how "disgusting" humans can be if you consider human behaviour from a very deep ancestral dive. 

It's quiet shocking I don't know how much is transferred to humans, yet if someone is not using his/her prefrontal cortex anymore I am unsure what to make of that, I usually just walk past them, there is no need to engage in this type of backstabbing it's usually also from people who are corrupt and in a weak position and can't really contemplate I find. Mostly bottom of the barrel. 

You know what, the irony is I think I can get girls by making fun of such loosers who make fun of others to feel good about themselves, I legit said this to one and she pulled me upstairs in the end. I was so "pissed" at how lazy some men are and just expect everything to fall into their lap, she legit screamed at time in a sense. I was drunk, I would have never done this sober. I just wanted to see as I am quiet conscious drunk... believe it or not, if this really works and it did. That shocked me. I could even have gone further as I legit felt that authentic hate. 

All power to the bonobo btw  if such jokes are allowed. More sex for everyone. 

Edited February 21, 2023 by ValiantSalvatore

[Something Funny]

@ValiantSalvatore I agree with what you are saying in general, but some of it is besides the point. Especially the argument of modern environments and choosing who you hang out with.

Most people in the world don't leave in "modern environment" so for them this topic is much more relevant.

What I am talking about is something like this:

let's say you are walking down a street and somebody cat calls your gf, or grabs her butt or whatever. And you just totally ignore it. How do you think she would feel? Even if she doesn't believe that you have necessarily to do something, she would still will kind of "meh" about the situation in general, right? Especially compared to an alternative scenario where you stand up for her.

Or if this happened when your male friends were with you, are you saying that their opinion about you isn't going to be affected at all, or if it does, then they are degenerates?

21 minutes ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

You can play billions of scenarios

It's not about any particular scenario or how realistic it is. The question is about the concept itself, our ideas of what makes a man look good and attractive and what doesn't.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Something Funny

[ValiantSalvatore]

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

What I am talking about is something like this: let's say you are walking down the street and somebody cat calls your gf, or grabs her butt or whatever. And you just totally ignore it. How do you think she would feel? If this happened when your male friends were with you, are you saying that their opinion about you isn't going to be affected at all, or if it does, then they are degenerates?

If this happens with "my male friends" something went wrong, and or this will turn into serious lunacy, if I would play that scenario.... I usually have protective friends so we move on. I also never had a real fight etc.

If I imagine how she would feel definitely boundaries crossed in a hot moment I would most likely chase they guy and force him to apoligize if it was some rude kid, (in case I loose consciouness), as it hurts having boundaries crossed. If not some rude kid I just ask if everything is fine etc. and talk about the scenario and if she does not want to talk etc. I just leave it, I can't 100% feel the emotions of someone else etc. This is also very taxing emotionally and can be overburdened etc.

Cat calling I would ignore the guys hitting on the girl. The girl I talked about above this happend and she still stuck with me as I basically was holding hands with her the whole time. I dunno she looked at me at times with such glowing eyes, I had no idea. I legit picked her up from partying & clubbing.

If I would really worry about something like this like my male friend seeing me as lesser, dude I am already the most successful among them and even becoming more successful besides a few (but they legit have a million+ approx), they would never think of me less, as we are friends???? Like wtf. I would focus on myself if they see me as lesser that legit is their problem, such people in my experience are immensely stuck in their peer group and perpetuate the b.s in the group, are alcoholics etc. Get nothing done the typical european soccer crew so to speak.

The ones who did something akin to this to me are legit the ones I am kind too, despite the fact that they are doing that, because I feel bad for them as they have nothing really going in their lives, at times I think this has to be their only joy. (I don't currently know anyone like this, yet this can happen).

At the end they pay me respect for not reacting, and I ignore and this stops. I usually meet people at an eye level. Right now I am legit injured which makes it tricky, most people who made fun of me legit have nothing going in their lives. 

Most people I meet encouraged me even when I felt insecure and this is usually the "gang" I am choosing also it's the best "gang" so to speak as you enter all possibillities, I miss going out and just jumping from friend group to friend group. While knowing really none, and ending up at the best places. I dunno last place I ended up in an indoor pool from some guy from the american military legit smoking blunts like in a rap group (fking illegal they get kicked out of the military if they are in poession as far as I know) with some semi hot chicks, although this is mostly private. Just beign open and curious about others usually get's me more invites etc. Also never seeing myself as lesser biggest mistake to be done with "big people" etc. 

Although this takes a lot of talking and beign pro-active, I don't get invited usually I am super introverted and also have high energy. Also it feels great to introduce a hot girl you got to know to your friend group if your friends are legit cool or you can think of them as cool and just love them, the vibe will definitely rub off etc. 

Hope this makes sense. You could ask the reverse if this would happen to a friend of you, would you think of him less? I would see it personally as more a "test" of friendship if I know him well I would just say f* it let's move on, I never have been seriously pestered.

All in all this is fairly unconscious most of it, I would prefer having a different social group and meeting women in that way as we'd share more similar activities, I changed a lot so I usually don't have a single friend group anymore, many work on career also or are legit married. 

Other example I can give as we went out a friend of mine "rather unattractive and dark skinned you can't really tell where he is from" has this ueber beautiful women at his hand, the guy walks up with his friend group (typical soccer kids) says: " You n***er you don't deserve someone like her" I had to laugh so hard, my friend got a bit upset he is taller and bigger, he was like let's move as they all stood there paralyzed (nothing is going to happen this is why I laughed). I dunno how she felt she gave 0 reaction and I don't remember much from this particular night. I find the guy very boring also he is super smart, and choose a lame job and is very quiet although he could easily do a Ph.D etc. I myself wondered how he got her. 

Other scenario my friend got laid as a random guy pestered the group of women I approached and they all showed the guy the middle-finger and the body guard, packed him by the neck and threw him out as he just did not want to stop. I approach them casually afterwards and chill and after 1h or so they came to us and started dancing with us. We both we're like kids in a candy store omfg, she is so hot etc. He got her though there is a lot of bias in that old region and my "competition" realistically is rougher. I winged him so to speak. My approach was super bad and way to direct. Although she liked my energy. They also just came and we were just having fun dancing. Another friend of mine get's even approached by women by having this high energy and just dancing and he rejects them at times it's hilarous, this guy at times is such an idiot, yet he just get's other women. He rejected this super hot women, I could not believe him I would have helped him as much as possible, yet he was just like oh he does not like the games. THIS WAS A CASUAL SHIT Test, omfg I don't know he get's "cat called" out of the gym they meet him with beer and he says no like wtf. She was mega hot. Sorry for going on a tangent here, these memories sort of all happend in a similar timeframe of going out. 

I dunno I did not even approach 10 women, I am relatively new and I don't even know what kind of girls like me when I approach them. I mostly did online game, I still have a lot of approach anxiety, although it's quiet fun. 

I would never shift my perspective and see them as lesser because of any of this social mobbing. Of course I judge, yet I don't let this opinion manifest as a group perception and act mostly with non-judgement. Although many want an opinion from me. 

In general this "saving face" notion&idea is a very eastern notion. Nobody really cares mostly besides if you are very young and insecure then eventually yes. 

Edited February 21, 2023 by ValiantSalvatore

[ValiantSalvatore]

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

It's not about any particular scenario or how realistic it is. The question is about the concept itself, our ideas of what makes a man look good and attractive and what doesn't.

Beign fun, having high energy, going for what you want, beign bold, beign social, inviting her to social spaces with cool friends and people, doing something fun, letting her meet new cool people etc. 

The most social guys had the most girls that is what I noticed and usually also very attracitve women, quality is debatable. Most of them besides one close friend were not very particularlly educated, although very intelligent (one guy is a millionar approx, or at least has a couple of 100k in revenue per year he does not need to work anymore since his mid 20's) he watches harry potter movies the whole day at work, because it's his company and he is kinda nerdy also. I legit meet him in a video game, I had to laugh so hard that he is a player.

He also get's the hottest women and is also very soft I still wonder how he does it, yet he reads such subtle signs. I can't believe it. He is just social and leads as the other ones are to lazy to make proper decisions and or confused while drunk... 

Edited February 21, 2023 by ValiantSalvatore

[Something Funny]

@ValiantSalvatore nevermind, we are talking about different things

[ValiantSalvatore]

lol I am not the biggest fan of image sorry. Feels ultra fake.

I dunno the question is odd standing up usually happens intuitively grounded in values ?. There is no need to make a scene. I gave some real life examples instead of a bunch of hypotheticals and yes guys will hit on your girl when you go out. It's an obstacle. 

Grabbing etc. goes to far I am glad nothing happend here. 

If you want the typical stage red answer do martial arts, assert yourself, stand up for your women and fight for her. I bet she can't fend for herself. Or is that a hidden presumption?

In a world like this what can you even do lol. It's basically social darwinism and power struggles. Most people on the globe are more blue/orange. So this should generally not happen. Imo if these are legit concerns I'd move countries, cities, planets even.

The thread was about eliminating bias, in a stage red world this is not possible only power counts.

Edited February 21, 2023 by ValiantSalvatore

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, Something Funny said:

A lot of Leo's advise for men is sexist by those standards

People make up so much nonsense when it comes to understanding women.

Women behave in very particular ways which men do not. It isn't a problem. The only problem is not understanding those ways. Once you understand those ways women are so predictable and easy to get along with. You need to understand the creatures you're dealing with. Vice versa for women understanding men.

Rather than focusing on gender politics, focus on personally understanding what makes the opposite sex tick. This will be much more effective and healthy for you.

All the politics boils down to is this: treat women with respect.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Vido]

@Leo Gura is there any particular video of yours you suggest to understsnd this? Like the old ones or the new ones?

[Leo Gura]

@Vido I have a video called something like Masculunity vs Femininity.

But it basically just requires a lot of experience dealing with women until you develop a neural network for women. Eventually you become like a master pianist playing a piano.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Vido]

@Leo Gura okay thank you! I know which one you are talking about. I have watched it long time back but shall rewatch it