Sexism Test - Eliminating Bias

[Emerald]

24 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

This is why I show the 'middle finger' to feminist women in dating. Because of this gaslighting. 

Do you know what it's like to be a man?! What battles we fight every single day?! When I said that 'you don't know one thing about what it's like to be a man', it was not 'inflammatory'. I meant it. You are ignorant about the male struggles. So, kindly, don't psycho-analyze me. And if you gaslight me another time, I will report it. 

Go ahead and report me if you want to.

All I said is that you’re imagining battles with women in your head that don’t actually exist in reality.

And that you have an issue with victim’s mentality.

And none of the moderators nor Leo will disagree with me. They’ll tell you the exact same thing.

[Roy]

lol 70% hostile, 39% benevolent. I don't even have to research and I'd bet this test was made with a delusional progressive/feminist slant. Most of these things aren't impartial anyways that's ok.

It's just ironic my results are like this when the women in my life respond to me so well. All my female coworkers think I'm a charmer, my female family members love me, 80% of my friends the past 5 years are women, all my lovers adored me and none of the relationships ended on a sour note.

Hell, I even gave a lady I've never met a ride for work for like 10 minutes a while back, and apparently I was such good conversation she offered me a bottle of wine as a thank you .

If I'm a sexist, I'm doing a damn terrible job.

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Roy

[Emerald]

14 minutes ago, zurew said:

100%.

@Emerald Don't waste your time with this guy (@mr_engineer), the conversation with him won't be productive. He was probably traumatized by a feminist in the past (that he constantly associates with all feminists now), and because of that he can't have a normal, productive, introspective conversation about this subject.

This is not meant to be a condescending post, this meant to be a post about how important it is to properly heal ourselves from traumas, because it blocks healthy engagement and healthy conversations about topics that are directly related to our trauma(s).

 

I am starting to learn more and more now, that sometimes disagreements and counter arguments have nothing to do with actual disagreements ( and have nothing to do with genuinely holding certain positions ), and more to do with unconscious , unresolved baggage , traumas. 

Yeah, exactly. A lot of these types of chest-thumping anti-woman positions have to do with deep levels of insecurity, powerlessness, and shame.

They project certain powers to validate/invalidate men’s existence onto women that women don’t actually have… and then they feel small and threatened and get aggressive as a result.

And these types of guys choose the fight response to try to solve that internal problem. And they try to make women smaller in their minds in any way they can.

And they become like glass cannons… dishing it out constantly but being unable to take it.

I never met a man who felt good about himself who was hung up about women or the existence of Feminism.

[mr_engineer]

7 minutes ago, Emerald said:

If you knew the first thing about Feminism, you’d know that it’s not a monolith and that there are many things that Feminists fiercely debate.

I'll make this simple for you, then. If it's anti-male rhetoric, it's probably BS. And yes, 'pro-equality' often means anti-male, because to collapse the distinction between 'male' and 'female' and to make both 'equal', is anti-male. And, anti-female. Both. 

18 minutes ago, Emerald said:

As for what Teal said about containment, it can be difficult to grapple with distinguishing your genuine desires/needs and what has been constructed specifically to oppress women.

The reality is that women have historically been oppressed on the basis their femininity… as well as any divergence from feminine societal norms.

So, their femininity has been constructed into narratives that both idealize and disempower them.

These are constructed in such a way that applies a limiting narratives to women and femininity in general. So, it is designed to squelch the feminine power.

So, if women are feminine, they get disrespected and infantilized. And if women stray from those narratives in certain ways, they are judged a shrewish and masculine.

There’s really no way for women to win in this conceptualization. And that’s the whole point of these narratives to give women no philosophical foundation for power and personal sovereignty. 

So, women tend to have a fraught relationship to their femininity because of these patriarchal narratives around femininity.

And less conscious Feminists can have perspectives that simply rebel from anything that resembles the patriarchal narrative to get as far from it as possible.

I don't want such a person within 10 miles of me, in dating terms. 

We all have patriarchal conditioning. Some of us do the work of unwiring it, others project their shit onto others. And I've got no time for the latter. These are your 'unconscious feminists'. 

20 minutes ago, Emerald said:

But more conscious Feminists often look to separate the wheat from the chaff in terms of what is conditioned in as a result of patriarchy versus what is their genuine desire.

And this requires a lot of introspection.

So if a woman wants to be contained/held by her partner… this can bring up feelings of powerlessness and shame if she hasn’t unpacked her own femininity and personal sovereignty from those limiting narratives and hasn’t debunked the notions of masculine supremacy.

Workable. If she has good feminine qualities, the drama will be tolerable. 

[Sincerity]

14 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

Feminism is the bias! It's the bias towards 'equality'. I request that you don't conflate this position with 'objectivity'. 

Do you actually believe that men and women are equal? In actual, practical reality? Not in your feminist books, in your 'intersectional theory' books. In actual reality. 

I hope that this forum, of all places, would understand that just because it's taught in university, does not make it objective. And it certainly doesn't mean that 'equality' is the solution to these otherwise complex systemic issues. 

"Introspect."

"Actually, it's feminism that is biased! Men and women are not equal! This forum doesn't get it!!!"

?‍♂️

[mr_engineer]

49 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Go ahead and report me if you want to.

All I said is that you’re imagining battles with women in your head that don’t actually exist in reality.

And that you have an issue with victim’s mentality.

And none of the moderators nor Leo will disagree with me. They’ll tell you the exact same thing.

Done. The part about 'victim-mentality' was the gaslight. 

And, saying 'you're imagining battles in your head', that are actually very real lived experiences for me - that's textbook gaslighting now, isn't it?! 

36 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Yeah, exactly. A lot of these types of chest-thumping anti-woman positions have to do with deep levels of insecurity, powerlessness, and shame.

It's not anti-woman. It's a criticism of feminism. 

36 minutes ago, Emerald said:

They project certain powers to validate/invalidate men’s existence onto women that women don’t actually have… and then they feel small and threatened and get aggressive as a result.

And these types of guys choose the fight response to try to solve that internal problem. And they try to make women smaller in their minds in any way they can.

And they become like glass cannons… dishing it out constantly but being unable to take it.

Sounds like someone hurt you in the past. Who was it?! (Turning the tables in the psycho-analysis game!! I will use this information against you now, to show you how much of a failure you are in your inner-work. Then you'll get a sense for what men actually struggle with.) 

36 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I never met a man who felt good about himself who was hung up about women or the existence of Feminism.

There's a first time for everything. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by mr_engineer

[mr_engineer]

4 minutes ago, Sincerity said:

"Introspect."

"Actually, it's feminism that is biased! Men and women are not equal! This forum doesn't get it!!!"

?‍♂️

You didn't answer the question. What is your opinion on this?! 

[Sincerity]

Just now, mr_engineer said:

You didn't answer the question. What is your opinion on this?! 

I'm not getting into these conversations with You. No point.

[UnbornTao]

@Devin

According to research, there are physiological differences between the male and female brain, even before birth. So saying that they're different from each other isn't always bias. I assume that would translate to pretty important differences in behavior and how the world is perceived by each sex.

Could be an area to research.

3 hours ago, Devin said:

 There is an ingrained useful bias for women getting the lifeboats, one man can impregnate all the women, if all men lived and one woman survived..... you're hoping for twins. Same with risking your life in anything else like warfare.

Yep, was going to mention this. It might as well be an instinctual drive.

Edited February 19, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Emerald]

@mr_engineer Well. Good luck in love and life.

With those philosophies, you’ll need it.

[Sincerity]

My results --> 0% hostile, 3% benevolent.

[mr_engineer]

@Emerald I've already shown the middle-finger to feminists on the topic of dating. I don't need your condescension on this front anymore, thanks. 

[Devin]

1 hour ago, UnbornTao said:

@Devin

According to research, there are physiological differences between the male and female brain, even before birth. So saying that they're different from each other isn't always bias. I assume that would translate to pretty important differences in behavior and how the world is perceived by each sex.

Could be an area to research.

Yep, was going to mention this. It might as well be an instinctual drive.

That's no different than physical traits, you can, and society does, breed physiological traits in the brain.

[Devin]

5 hours ago, Emerald said:

That’s in a scenario where your species or tribe is about to be annihilated. You’ll want to keep the women alive then to re-populate.

But in a life-boat scenario, that logic doesn’t apply there because there are plenty of people to keep society going.

I just meant that's why it's ingrained in culture, from those times, now it's 'tradition'.

[ValiantSalvatore]

2 hours ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

A huge portion of that bias is a simple need of sex and approval from women. It's next to impossible to think in a non biased way about women's issues, if you feel like you are starved of these 2 things. But it's a lot more complicated than that, a bunch of more factors could potentially go into that bias. But this one is the most fundamental I think.

That is a common one I heard at least also from my friend who now get's laid a lot by just approaching and going out and setting up a masculine profile (not currently). For me it's similar mostly positive interactions and gratitude journaling has helped me the most. Mostly the starvation of sex, I dunno masturbation still works for me, sometimes approval from women can be also "annoying in a sense" 

For me it has mostly been the awareness around the emotion of envy, that some things are "more accessible", I just see it for what it is and accept it.  Gratitude has helped me more attracting attractive women, I give my best to find more quality women, yet currently it's me who is lacking skill in this area. Gratitude has just been a huge solution for most bias issues for me at least. 

[mr_engineer]

15 hours ago, Roy said:

lol 70% hostile, 39% benevolent. I don't even have to research and I'd bet this test was made with a delusional progressive/feminist slant. Most of these things aren't impartial anyways that's ok.

It's just ironic my results are like this when the women in my life respond to me so well. All my female coworkers think I'm a charmer, my female family members love me, 80% of my friends the past 5 years are women, all my lovers adored me and none of the relationships ended on a sour note.

Hell, I even gave a lady I've never met a ride for work for like 10 minutes a while back, and apparently I was such good conversation she offered me a bottle of wine as a thank you .

If I'm a sexist, I'm doing a damn terrible job.

 

To all the feminists worried about my dating-life because of my 'bias' - don't worry. I'll be fine.

@Sincerity, I stand by what I said. Feminists are the biased ones. And their bias is anti-male. And you will have to prove this wrong. I have proof for what I said. The logic and proof is in front of you. Now, you will have to counter that with logic and proof. Not ad--hominems. 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Sincerity
Removed hostility

[something_else]

5 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

To all the feminists worried about my dating-life because of my 'bias' - don't worry. I'll be fine. I'm telling yall to shut up on this issue for a reason. It's cuz you're full of shit about what works. 

Or maybe you don't know what works? You should always be open to that possibility instead of being stubbornly convinced that you know everything.

Most people here are suggesting to you that the way you are thinking about this issue is quite toxic, and likely based on some kind of trauma. You even acknowledged that. But then you still stick hard to this conspiracy about the feminists coming to ruin your life.

A great practice to build up some empathy and understanding for the opposing side is to build a steelman argument for it. Actually sit down and really try hard to write up all of the good points that 'the feminists' make, try to understand why they feel the way they do and why they are so passionate about their cause.

You can't reduce it to 'all the feminists are evil' because that would be equivalent to you saying that half of the Western world are evil and morally inferior to you. Is that really a POV you think you can justify? If not, they must have some driving force behind them that is not evil. If you think you are capable of critical thinking (which I absolutely think you are) you should not have any trouble seriously considering what that might be. I'm not suggesting you post it or anything, just that you seriously try this out yourself and see what happens.

It's what caused me to stop being a hardcore anti-fem person. The anti-SJW content on YT completely indoctrinated me when I was younger, but doing this helped me build empathy and un-indoctrinate me. I would recommend it.

[mr_engineer]

10 minutes ago, something_else said:

Or maybe you don't know what works? You should always be open to that possibility instead of being stubbornly convinced that you know everything.

I took the sexism-test, I studied it inside-out. I know what I'm talking about. And that's what's being defended here. 

10 minutes ago, something_else said:

Most people here are suggesting to you that the way you are thinking about this issue is quite toxic, and likely based on some kind of trauma. You even acknowledged that. But then you still stick hard to this conspiracy about the feminists coming to ruin your life.

The trauma happened because feminism is conceptually antithetical to the idea of gender. To 'equalize' men and women, means to destroy the male and female identities. They want to say 'I don't see gender'. (Analogous to 'I don't see color'.) 

10 minutes ago, something_else said:

A great practice to build up some empathy and understanding for the opposing side is to build a steelman argument for it. Actually sit down and really try hard to write up all of the good points that 'the feminists' make, try to understand why they feel the way they do and why they are so passionate about their cause.

Daddy-issues. That's why they're passionate. It's not complicated! 

They hate men, they hate women who act like women, who act feminine, so they want to destroy both identities. And they call that 'equality'. 

10 minutes ago, something_else said:

You can't reduce it to 'all the feminists are evil' because that would be equivalent to you saying that half of the Western world are evil and morally inferior to you. Is that really a POV you think you can justify? If not, they must have some driving force behind them that is not evil. If you think you are capable of critical thinking (which I absolutely think you are) you should not have any trouble seriously considering what that might be. I'm not suggesting you post it or anything, just that you seriously try this out yourself and see what happens.

You're saying that the people driven by anti-feminist ideology are driven by 'trauma'. And, I'm presuming that you're saying that that's evil, that creates 'evil sexist men'. I'm saying that feminists are driven by trauma. So, by your logic, that's also evil, right?! 

10 minutes ago, something_else said:

It's what caused me to stop being a hardcore anti-fem person. The anti-SJW content on YT completely indoctrinated me when I was younger, but doing this helped me build empathy and un-indoctrinate me. I would recommend it.

You can't un-indoctrinate lived experiences. You can't un-indoctrinate a genuine experience of masculine and feminine energy and how they work well together. And how feminism gets in the way of that. 

Edited February 20, 2023 by mr_engineer

[something_else]

44 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

You're saying that the people driven by anti-feminist ideology are driven by 'trauma'. And, I'm presuming that you're saying that that's evil, that creates 'evil sexist men'. I'm saying that feminists are driven by trauma. So, by your logic, that's also evil, right?! 

Lots of people are driven by trauma on both sides. I'm not saying anti-feminists are driven by trauma, I'm saying you're driven by trauma. There are healthy criticisms of feminsm, and anti-feminism, but to make healthy criticism you need to be detached instead of heavily emotionally invested in one side.

And, I'm not saying anything is evil. I don't think you are an evil sexist man, I just think you have had unfortunate experiences that have steeped you in this negative bias towards progressive people. It's you that talks like the feminists are an evil force coming to get you. That's why I'm even bothering to discuss this with you, because it's so plainly an unhealthy way of viewing the world.

44 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

Daddy-issues. That's why they're passionate. It's not complicated! 

They hate men, they hate women who act like women, who act feminine, so they want to destroy both identities. And they call that 'equality'. 

If you're not even willing to seriously consider the positive and healthy arguments of the opposing side, you are truly lost. You're on a self-development forum. The whole point of being here is to try and rise above our biases and develop empathy/understanding/consciousness.

44 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

You can't un-indoctrinate lived experiences. You can't un-indoctrinate a genuine experience of masculine and feminine energy and how they work well together. And how feminism gets in the way of that. 

I don't even know what you're talking about here. It seriously makes me question where this lived experience is coming from and in what environments, because if you talk to lots of people, especially women, you see that most women don't go around trying to destroy the masculine/feminine dynamic, yet would also call themselves feminists. You're shadow boxing a strawman of feminism in your mind that sounds like it's been heavily constructed by consuming anti-SJW content online.

Anyway, I'm done here. I don't see a point in discussion with someone who is so closed minded that they reduce the entire opposing side's argument to daddy issues.

Edited February 20, 2023 by something_else

[mr_engineer]

On 2/20/2023 at 4:46 PM, something_else said:

And, I'm not saying anything is evil. I don't think you are an evil sexist man, I just think you have had unfortunate experiences that have steeped you in this negative bias towards progressive people. It's you that talks like the feminists are an evil force coming to get you. That's why I'm even bothering to discuss this with you, because it's so plainly an unhealthy way of viewing the world.

On 2/20/2023 at 4:46 PM, something_else said:

If you're not even willing to seriously consider the positive and healthy arguments of the opposing side, you are truly lost. You're on a self-development forum. The whole point of being here is to try and rise above our biases and develop empathy/understanding/consciousness.

You keep jumping to these conclusions, that 'it is an unhealthy way of viewing the world'. And you have no proof for that. 

Look at @Roy's results and how they relate to his life. Then tell me what's healthy and what's unhealthy. 

On 2/20/2023 at 4:46 PM, something_else said:

I don't even know what you're talking about here. It seriously makes me question where this lived experience is coming from and in what environments, because if you talk to lots of people, especially women, you see that most women don't go around trying to destroy the masculine/feminine dynamic, yet would also call themselves feminists. You're shadow boxing a strawman of feminism in your mind that sounds like it's been heavily constructed by consuming anti-SJW content online.

I know, you want a negative sob-story of 'trauma' and 'suffering' that's behind my views. The reality is that I've also had positive experiences with women and that has taught me a lot about their psychology. And they've told me that feminism destroys their ability to be feminine. Because it shames them for wanting to be feminine. 

It also happens to shame men for being masculine!! As said previously, chivalry is benevolent sexism. Interesting. Maybe it's not our masculinity and femininity that's the problem here, but the woke ideology that's scapegoating it. 

On 2/20/2023 at 4:46 PM, something_else said:

Anyway, I'm done here. I don't see a point in discussion with someone who is so closed minded that they reduce the entire opposing side's argument to daddy issues.

I will not open my mind to outright lies like 'chivalry is benevolent sexism'. This is very disrespectful and offensive to a lot of good, decent men. Because chivalry is the natural way that men show respect to women. 

Open-mindedness doesn't mean that you open your mind to any nonsense. What's BS, is BS. End of story.