Jimmy Dore at PBD Podcast

[zurew]

10 hours ago, Tanz said:

They have fabricated a war in Iraq and it cost so many people's lives including the soldiers that defend the United States.  While Americans are suffering the government that is meant to serve them spends 100 billion dollars in a foreign country.  Politicians around the world have done enough for people to be suspicious even if those suspicions are not true.  

Just like you have every right to be suspicious of Russell Brand, he has the right to be suspicious of people in power.  We are living in a world where it is harder to know what is true and what people's intentions are and it cost too much money and time to find truth from direct experience.  

I haven't said anything that would contradict or disagree with any of your points above. I tried to make a point that he is using selective scepticism (where you are very sceptical about certain things and when it comes to other things , you openly accepts everything without any single critical thought or scepticism). My point was that Russel is not very balanced in his takes, in fact he is very clearly biased, and he seems to be very heavily ideologically driven so I wouldn't expect him to give balanced and good faith takes about political issues.

9 hours ago, Tanz said:

Russell never told anyone not to take the vaccine; he's been leaning more toward giving people a choice

Not saying things explicitly won't be an adequate defence here.  

He has made multiple videos where there was a very strong indication not to take the vaccine. (If I am making 10 different videos where I am only focusing on and cherrypicking the negative aspects of taking the vaccine and never talking about the positive side and never give a balanced take about it, then I am essentially implying that taking it is bad and and my audience who is only informed by me and by the information that I give, will leave with the impression that vaccines are actually bad) - would you actually say that this is giving an option to choose from or more like giving very strong indications what not to do or what would be insane or dumb to do ( which is essentially telling people what to do, but in a more sneaky way ).

5 hours ago, Tanz said:

It's very clear the covid vaccine is light years a failure compared to polio, or tuberculosis vaccines which completely sterilizes the person taking it. 

 You have an incredibly limited view if you think that if a vaccine is not 100% effective, then it is a failure. 

5 hours ago, Tanz said:

The minute it did not sterilize is when they should give people a choice without shaming them or firing them.

People did and do have the choice to decide what they want to do, but of course they will be motivated to take certain directions , because freedom and the ability to have a choice and to make a decision comes with consequences and often times giving selfish people absolute freedom ends in chaos and  ends with creating more overall harm than good.

What about companies who don't want their workers to get infected with covid and want to give a safe place for them where they can work? What about taking more responsiblity as a citizen and not infecting elderly people and then not flooding the hospitals and not destroying the health care system? 

Why shouldn't companies have the freedom to decide what they want to do with their workplace regarding to covid? Because you are essentially implying that they shouldn't even have the freedom to decide what they want to do with their workplace, so you would violate their freedom and limit their freedom.

Edited February 24, 2023 by zurew

[aurum]

13 hours ago, Tanz said:

Come on man, you are being hysterical now. 

I am getting frustrated because I feel like my points are being perpetually misunderstood.

13 hours ago, Tanz said:

The issue is people allowed such petty ideas to get them to hate each other so much. 

No, that is not the issue.

There may have been times when things got out of hand. But overall, what you just said was a defense many anti-vaxxers used when the heat was (rightfully) coming down on them.

The main issue is the following: is COVID dangerous? Is the vaccine effective? And to what degree should the vaccine be enforced?

13 hours ago, Tanz said:

I suppose if you somehow over powered me to take the vaccine that would make you worst than the virus you think is trying to kill me.  

Which is of course why no one did that. I am not suggesting that as policy. I am attempting to show you why there needed to be consequences for not taking the vaccine.

13 hours ago, Tanz said:

It's very clear the covid vaccine is light years a failure compared to polio, or tuberculosis vaccines which completely sterilizes the person taking it.  The minute it did not sterilize is when they should give people a choice without shaming them or firing them.

This is completely wrong.

The whole problem of COVID is that it was a legitimate dangerous situation with a lot of uncertainty. Public officials do not have time to wait until the vaccine is 100% effective in all circumstances. They needed to stop hospitals from overflowing and people from dying.

In real life, good enough is good enough.

The practical result of the policy you are advocating would have been more deaths, more hospitalizations, and possibly a situation where COVID remains out of control.

In fact, it is precisely because people like Brand promote vaccine and anti-establishment conspiracies that public consequences of not taking the vaccine became necessary. If everyone just got the vaccine, it wouldn’t have been necessary to threaten people with being fired.

14 hours ago, Tanz said:

I actually live in a place where 95% of the population got vaccinated and the number of infections after the vaccine actually went up.

I highly doubt that.

14 hours ago, Tanz said:

The way I look at it is if someone does not want to get it, they are free to not get it and risk their lives.   

Then you are being foolish. Which is the whole point of this conversation.

You are not free to endanger other people with your stupidity. If you drive a car without glasses when you need them, you will rightfully lose your license. This is the correct response. And it doesn’t matter if you “don’t believe” in the effectiveness of glasses while driving. That is your problem. Which is why education matters.

 

14 hours ago, Tanz said:

On the topic of Russia. So far they show no sign of wanting to invade the rest of Europe. For now I rather not have the American government fund them anymore and actually take care of their own people.  It is a pretty reasonable idea.  Your logic with Putin is based on speculation. Are you watching too much Rachel Maddow or something?

You missed the point entirely.

I am not at all making a commentary on what is happening in Ukraine. I am simply pointing out how little freedom you’ve ever actually had.

[Leo Gura]

The political analysis on PBD Podcast is really poor, I have noticed.

You'd be foolish to get your politics from there.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Leo Gura

[abundance]

47 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The political analysis on PBD Podcast is really poor, I have noticed.

You'd be foolish to get your politics from there.

I do appreciate the fact he invites a wide range of guests on his platform. But to me he seems more interested in scoring points and one upping his guests with tired and regurgitated right wing talking points. PDB is entertainment and that's about it. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, abundance said:

I do appreciate the fact he invites a wide range of guests on his platform.

Pat def has some admirable qualities like that.

[Tanz]

@abundance @zurew Pfizer has stated publicly that they never tested their vaccine for sterilization. Which means they never tested the people that took the vaccine weather or not they can transmit covid to another person. 

Isreal and Singapore were both countries that had a very high population of vaccination rates. Both countries had a spike in transmission because people thought they weren't spreaders after they took the vaccination.

The death rate in Singapore was extremely low thanks to the health care system and the high vaccination rate but infections spiked up after the vaccination. If people want to die and not take the vaccine that's their problem. But companies and restaurants preventing people in their premises didn't matter because everyone was a spreader.

If you look at the chart I attached, you will see the spike in cases around the same time people got the vaccine. Singapore was one of the most strict country in the 3 three years. You can even conclude that actually taking the vaccine increases transmission rate based on the chart even. This may not be true but it's something that can warrant proper investigation. Most people in Singapore took 3 doses. Pfizer was not transparent at the time of releasing the vaccine. I took it personally out of personal responsibility for the people around me even though I already had natural immunity since I got it early. With all honesty I knew I didn't need to take it because I tested myself for antibodies before taking it and I did have natural immunity which is a natural vaccine but I took it anyway to make people around me feel easy since I personally see alot of people in my job.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/singapore/

Edited February 25, 2023 by Tanz