Why is it that leftists get offended over cultural appropriation and not the people

[Romanov]

I’ve seen some social experiments where someone would walk onto a college campus or go to a highly liberal area dressed up as if they’re from a different culture and they would get shunned as well as assaulted by leftists. They then tried asking people of those actual cultures while wearing the attire if they found it offensive and instead they found it flattering. After all, imitation is said to be the ultimate form of flattery.

How can a leftist know better than a particular race or culture when it comes to racism and cultural appropriation? I feel as if it’s condescending to tell people how oppressed they are when they haven’t been in their shoes. This reminds me more of a fundamentalist religion than anything looking to proselytize individuals who are receptive enough. 
 

Thoughts?

[Romanov]

Bump 

[Recursoinominado]

Most people won't get it why it is offensive and that doesn't make it less offensive.

There are black people who claim that racism is not a big problem anymore, i am sure that there was slaves that thought that slavery wasn't that bad.

There are women that think feminism is bullshit.

They are just ignorant, which is sad.

Yeah, it sounds condescendent but what can we do? Just drop it?

Cultural transitions are really slow to most people not even noticed it and find it just weird and minor.

Again, that just speaks to the level of consciousness of most people.

[Danioover9000]

@Romanov

9 hours ago, Romanov said:

I’ve seen some social experiments where someone would walk onto a college campus or go to a highly liberal area dressed up as if they’re from a different culture and they would get shunned as well as assaulted by leftists. They then tried asking people of those actual cultures while wearing the attire if they found it offensive and instead they found it flattering. After all, imitation is said to be the ultimate form of flattery.

How can a leftist know better than a particular race or culture when it comes to racism and cultural appropriation? I feel as if it’s condescending to tell people how oppressed they are when they haven’t been in their shoes. This reminds me more of a fundamentalist religion than anything looking to proselytize individuals who are receptive enough. 
 

Thoughts?

   They don't have a life purpose of their own, so they instead get offended, complain and assault people who look like they're culturally appropriating some other culture, when they should be working on their inner game.

   As I've said, it depends on the stages of development, cognitive and moral development, personality types and traits, ego development, states of consciousness, life/lived experiences vs second hand knowledge, and other lines of development in different areas of life, and all the ideologies indoctrinated into your mind from upbringing, all those ideas imprinted onto your young mind, all the family's/cultural and personal beliefs imprinted into you. All that has to be comprehended, and dissolved into your field of awareness, integrated, and finally, both transcend and include those strengths and weaknesses. 

[Recursoinominado]

24 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

They don't have a life purpose of their own, so they instead get offended, complain and assault people

They do not lack life purpose, it is their life purpose to improve society to everyone and this means taking care of minorities.

This takes at least stage  green development and that's why you are so clueless about it.

[Danioover9000]

@Recursoinominado

On 2/15/2023 at 5:56 PM, Recursoinominado said:

They do not lack life purpose, it is their life purpose to improve society to everyone and this means taking care of minorities.

This takes at least stage  green development and that's why you are so clueless about it.

   No, I'm not clueless to them fighting their cause for their minorities they want to represent more in mainstream, but they can't avoid the que problem, and due to the internet and how it can fractally develop echo chambers to proliferate ideological views, they mostly have a skewed and distorted view of the actual realities faced by those minorities, and either underestimate some who can will to power and overcome their obstacles, or overestimate and over hype a bad situation to look much more worse than it actually is. BLM and George Floyd is a good example of some of the progressive/socialist ideological and political views of that situation, how left leaning news outlets embellish George Floyd, and police brutality, whilst overestimating and overplaying the negatives of Kyle Rittenhouse situation, over hyping and weaponizing the facts, whilst the right wing media outlets defend and downplay the severity of systemic racism and other systemic issues, and downplay the left's interpretations of the facts of George Floyd situation and Kyle Rittenhouse situation. Both left and right ideologies polarizing and being bigots to each other, when the harsh, simple fact, is that George Floyd was harassing the store clerk verbally, clerk called cops, cops arrive to instigate, back and forth dialogue, cops try to de-escalate but George Floyd was escalating the situation, George Floyd resisting arrest, cops successfully restrained George to the ground, George still resisting, psycho cop then kneels one knee behind George Floyd's nape as he's a big person, those four cops did nothing to check the kneeling cop and swap places, George Floyd kept struggling until death. One local event, all this, filmed by some phones and cop footages, news media sensationalizes this event, that cop eventually is found guilty, but regardless this triggered a collective reaction and protests, mostly peaceful to violent, and BLM, happened, now a raising protest and civil unrest, with some rioting and looting and property damages, which made the police departments react and send in S.W.A.T teams to manage the situation, and right leaning groups to show solidarity and support of blue lives matter. While all this was happening, Kyle Rittenhouse decides to show support, by arming himself with a rifle, and a bag of water bottles and some basic med kit, for blue lives matter, which kick starts another situation, of self defense. 

[Devin]

I think leftists can know because they've seen a different side of the coin that the oppressed haven't.

But a lot of them just bandwagon, I would go further than religious and even call it tribal in essence. There are legitimate complaints for racism and cultural appropriation, but the band-wagonners wind up just running wild with accusations, and without mercy.

[Romanov]

22 hours ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

They might be overly protective, because they see it as their duty to protect the weak. Others might just try to virtue signal to you how good of a person they are. There are honestly many reasons for why different "leftists" do what they do. Leftism isn't like one way of thinking. It includes different values, principles and approaches. So you can't always tell why they do what they do. Why don't you go to one of these campuses and ask them personally, or go to a leftist space online and ask them for their values and ideas about cultural appropriation. 

Also: Social experiments? Really? These social experiments can easily be skewed with to reflect a certain world view. I can walk up to 500 black people and tell them that I support Trump and if I find 10 that react aggressively I can just put that in the video and act like it says anything about anyone. I wouldn't go with social experiments when trying to understand reality.

These social "experiments" weren't  made by PragerU, have they? They're quiet literally a conservative propaganda outlet. So these videos are probably just as nuanced as the people they're trying to expose. There are intelligent voices on the left and there are intelligent voices on the right. PragerU isn't one of them.

 

These videos are not very solid. It's on the same level as interviewing 10 racist conservatives and trying to paint their opinions as the opinion of every conservative.

Do you think black people would react positively if you told them “I’m just being overprotective of you because it’s my duty to protect the weak”? 
 

No matter what you might say about these social experiments, I think we can all agree that “cultural appropriation” was a concept born out of privileged academic leftists. I find it ironic that all these white people are telling other groups and races how inferior they are while at the same time trying to make it seem as if they stand up for them. It’s as if, “Who asked you to get offended for me?”

[Romanov]

On 2/15/2023 at 9:44 AM, Recursoinominado said:

Most people won't get it why it is offensive and that doesn't make it less offensive.

There are black people who claim that racism is not a big problem anymore, i am sure that there was slaves that thought that slavery wasn't that bad.

There are women that think feminism is bullshit.

They are just ignorant, which is sad.

Yeah, it sounds condescendent but what can we do? Just drop it?

Cultural transitions are really slow to most people not even noticed it and find it just weird and minor.

Again, that just speaks to the level of consciousness of most people.

But considering those black people and other minorities of the like to be “ignorant” is condescending just like you said. They didn’t ask for anyone to get offended for them, instead minorities are just getting used for a political party’s gain. It deems black conservatives as people who can’t think for themselves.

Maybe it just so happens that anyone from a minority group who claims they don’t feel oppressed are just thinking for themselves? 

It’s as if these academics hiding in their ivory towers can come up with any new concept and people will buy into it because of the fallacy appealing to authority. 

Edited February 17, 2023 by Romanov

[D2sage]

Most lefties are driven by emotions and have a EQ of a child.

[Thought Art]

I am still trying to understand this. 

I think…. People get full of assumptions… 

[Romanov]

23 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

It depends on who you ask. Different people have different world views. Some might get triggered by it because they don't want to be treated like they're helpless children, others would expect you to use your privilege to help the underprivileged. I mean some black people don't care about white people saying the n-word, others do.

I also don't believe that the concept of cultural appropriation was born out of privileged leftist academia, though it has been hijacked by them since. A lot of leftist are left in a more performative sense of the word. They don't care about real change, they just want to appear "woke". That's a separate issue from cultural appropriation though.

That's a pretty black and white way of looking at the issue. When you help an elderly woman, do you help her because you see her as inferior, or are you helping her because you realize that she has certain limitations that you don't have? In the same way, maybe certain people simply see black people as inferior, but it can also be about recognizing the cultural limitations of black people (intergenerational wealth gaps for example) and trying to help where you can. Now, this can be done in a performative way, as it is being done by a lot of letftists, especially online, but it can also be about fixing root issues.

It's the same as with the war on drugs. Making drugs illegal helps in the short run, but in the long run it ignores the reasons for why people take drugs to begin with and so if you want to fix the drug issue, you have to fix the deeper disease that gives rise to these kinds of symptoms.

Some leftists in the same way don't care about the root issues of racism, but about the symptoms of it and so they're like a doctor that gives you cough syrup for your lung cancer. They think they're helping, but they're only making things worse for everybody in the long run. That much I can agree on, but to reduce it to: "That's what the left is", is overly simplistic. I don't think that reducing either the left or the right to such simplistic interpretations helps anyone really.

Sure it’s a nuanced subject but it would take a novel to address those nuances. Here I’m being simplistic for the purpose of getting to the point. I guess it just boils down to how they approach minorities about their oppression. If they do it in a way where it only makes them hate white people more, then I don’t condone that. 
 

 

[Basman]

I suspect the type of people you are talking about is a bit of a loud minority. How many actually do this?

Especially online, a few extremists can make the whole bunch seem rotten. The majority generally tends to stay silent with most matters.

As to why people get offended for the sake of others, there can be numerous different reasons. Genuineness will vary.

• An authentic sense of empathy and a of justice. They feel that you are being offensive. 
• Depending on their background and culture, they might have certain expectations for what is normal.
• It can be difficult to seperate emotion from context sometimes. Context matters.
• Assuming intent. They think they know how you think and that what you mean is antagonizing (usually unconsciously).
• Not getting offended might be percieved as making them look bad, I.E. social pressure.
• Virtue signaling as a way to demonstrate social conscious, gain benefits and control others.

Some of these more narcissistic types are fueled when they know that they are highly visible. It's been documented for example that "karens" become even more indignant and imputent when they know they are being filmed. Karens blow up like they do in part because they have a camera in their face. The sensationalism inherent to online discourse likewise drives a degree of short-sighted interactions. Hence why things tend to blow out of proportion online.

That is not to say you can't try to protect people without it being some sort of ploy. Getting offended for the sake of others isn't a new thing fundamentally speaking. People have always been defensive about the things they care about. Moral of the story is just not being antagonizing and bridge burning IMO. I personally value understanding, so I don't like to completely disregard other peoples perspective even when you disagree with them.

[soos_mite_ah]

Because growing up when I was going to school, I got bullied for having thick eyebrows, putting oil in my hair, bringing indian food to school because "it smelt funny", and being told that my cultural clothes are tacky but my relatives and my parents who grew up in India/Bangladesh never got the same treatment. They weren't exposed to white supremacy and the bullying that comes with it in the same way that South Asian Americans did so they don't see the hypocrisy. A lot of these people don't know what it's like to be ostracized at the place of your birth and be seen as other your whole lives. Don't get me wrong, they deal with these issues in a much more systemic and geopolitical way which is easily arguably worse, so I'm not trying to put down their experiences with inequality. But they simply don't have the same experience of being critiqued, ostracized, and discriminated against for one thing and then 10-20 years down the line once you've had to deal with your own self hatred and finally learned to embrace your roots, you have those same people that treated you badly use the things they bullied you for as props that made them cool. But it was never seen as cool or desirable on  you even though you were the original. 

[Romanov]

11 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

Because growing up when I was going to school, I got bullied for having thick eyebrows, putting oil in my hair, bringing indian food to school because "it smelt funny", and being told that my cultural clothes are tacky but my relatives and my parents who grew up in India/Bangladesh never got the same treatment. They weren't exposed to white supremacy and the bullying that comes with it in the same way that South Asian Americans did so they don't see the hypocrisy. A lot of these people don't know what it's like to be ostracized at the place of your birth and be seen as other your whole lives. Don't get me wrong, they deal with these issues in a much more systemic and geopolitical way which is easily arguably worse, so I'm not trying to put down their experiences with inequality. But they simply don't have the same experience of being critiqued, ostracized, and discriminated against for one thing and then 10-20 years down the line once you've had to deal with your own self hatred and finally learned to embrace your roots, you have those same people that treated you badly use the things they bullied you for as props that made them cool. But it was never seen as cool or desirable on  you even though you were the original. 

What would you say about the other Indians/minorities who don’t feel ostracized? Those are the ones that typically vote republican. Are they all just kissing the white man’s boots? 

I’m curious what Vivek Ramaswamy’s views are regarding being Indian and ostracized in the U.S. 

https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/indian-american-republican-vivek-ramaswamy-considers-2024-presidential-bid/article66512561.ece/amp/

Edited February 18, 2023 by Romanov

[Yog]

No one is allowed to feel bad on the far left. So anything that might hurt or offend anyone will be policed and a new word will be invented about it.

Ironically enough, the only people that will get offended by someone mimicking their culture are the less healthy people on the right. So in that sense, "cultural appropriation" is protecting, even empowering toxic right-wingers, without even knowing it. Both sides are actually doing the very same thing, just for different reasons and aims.

Anyway, quote wise:
If you do the right things for the wrong reasons, you'll still get the right thing.
If you do the wrong thing, for the right reasons, you'll still get the wrong thing.

I believe the latter to be the case with both left-wingers and right-wingers in this situation.

[Romanov]

15 hours ago, Basman said:

I suspect the type of people you are talking about is a bit of a loud minority. How many actually do this?

Especially online, a few extremists can make the whole bunch seem rotten. The majority generally tends to stay silent with most matters.

As to why people get offended for the sake of others, there can be numerous different reasons. Genuineness will vary.

• An authentic sense of empathy and a of justice. They feel that you are being offensive. 
• Depending on their background and culture, they might have certain expectations for what is normal.
• It can be difficult to seperate emotion from context sometimes. Context matters.
• Assuming intent. They think they know how you think and that what you mean is antagonizing (usually unconsciously).
• Not getting offended might be percieved as making them look bad, I.E. social pressure.
• Virtue signaling as a way to demonstrate social conscious, gain benefits and control others.

Some of these more narcissistic types are fueled when they know that they are highly visible. It's been documented for example that "karens" become even more indignant and imputent when they know they are being filmed. Karens blow up like they do in part because they have a camera in their face. The sensationalism inherent to online discourse likewise drives a degree of short-sighted interactions. Hence why things tend to blow out of proportion online.

That is not to say you can't try to protect people without it being some sort of ploy. Getting offended for the sake of others isn't a new thing fundamentally speaking. People have always been defensive about the things they care about. Moral of the story is just not being antagonizing and bridge burning IMO. I personally value understanding, so I don't like to completely disregard other peoples perspective even when you disagree with them.

Isn’t LGBT also a loud minority? If so, then how come they don’t get written off as simply being a loud minority? Hell, one could also say that black people are a loud minority. 
 

I listened to a transwoman speak about detransitioners and she was saying that they’re just a loud minority. And then I realized that she was also a loud minority because how many people out there are trans? 

[Basman]

@Romanov Points raised by a minority don't get dismissed as a "loud minority" always because the merits of a conversation isn't solely dependent on whether or not the interests of a group is a minority or not. If the majority value fairness for example then hearing out minorities could be valuable in of its own right. It depends.

The "loud minority" phrase isn't exactly an accurate descriptor. It is just there to help get a sense of the scale of things. Online discourse can be melodramatic and make things seem like the end of the world. So a little perspective helps you see the forest for the trees. It helps you consider the degree to which extreme rethoric is leading a discussion and avoid strawmaning people. It is important to be intellectually honest and consider the biases of both sides.

[Schizophonia]

17 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

Because growing up when I was going to school, I got bullied for having thick eyebrows, putting oil in my hair, bringing indian food to school because "it smelt funny", and being told that my cultural clothes are tacky but my relatives and my parents who grew up in India/Bangladesh never got the same treatment. They weren't exposed to white supremacy and the bullying that comes with it in the same way that South Asian Americans did so they don't see the hypocrisy. A lot of these people don't know what it's like to be ostracized at the place of your birth and be seen as other your whole lives. Don't get me wrong, they deal with these issues in a much more systemic and geopolitical way which is easily arguably worse, so I'm not trying to put down their experiences with inequality. But they simply don't have the same experience of being critiqued, ostracized, and discriminated against for one thing and then 10-20 years down the line once you've had to deal with your own self hatred and finally learned to embrace your roots, you have those same people that treated you badly use the things they bullied you for as props that made them cool. But it was never seen as cool or desirable on  you even though you were the original. 

The children are mean or even ruthless, they used your origin/your culture to be mean, that's all.
It could have been any other singular characteristic, you just want to inflate your ego by talking about "white supremacy".

[Recursoinominado]

I swear the politcs session of this forum looks like a incel/red pill forum, the same dumb, ignorant, short-sided talking points shitting on leftists and projecting their own devilry on the left.

You guys are too selfish to see beyond your own bullshit.

This sub-forum failed.