To Be Or Not To Be Vegetarian

[David]

36 minutes ago, Dhana Choko said:

Can you back up this claim? To my knowledge and research, our teeth and stomach acidity and intestines are not similar to pure carnivores and human babies (or adults) are usually unwilling to eat big chunks of raw meat.

From Scientific America: There is no doubt that human evolution has been linked to meat in many fundamental ways. Our digestive tract is not one of obligatory herbivores; our enzymes evolved to digest meat whose consumption aided higher encephalization and better physical growth.

[David]

We are not pure carnivores. Nor did I say we are. We are omnivorous and have been for centuries. 

[Phocus]

19 hours ago, David said:

From Scientific America: There is no doubt that human evolution has been linked to meat in many fundamental ways. Our digestive tract is not one of obligatory herbivores; our enzymes evolved to digest meat whose consumption aided higher encephalization and better physical growth.

We evolved to eat plants, and eventually, adapted to eat small amounts of meat and dairy.  It doesn't mean that we can't eat animals/animal products.  It's just not optimal.  For most of our species existence, we ate plants, so our bodies are much better at processing them without other negative side effects.  Now, we all do things that are not "optimal" for our health: drinking alcohol, eating fast/luxurious food, smoking, doing drugs, ect but it Just depends on what you prioritize. Unfortunately, American culture has come to enjoy eating large quantities of meat and anything that promotes meat eating will generally be very popular.

The statement "...human evolution has been linked to meat in many fundamental ways." is misleading and untrue.  A few examples why are:

• Humans can get heart disease.  We have no way to regulate our blood's cholesterol levels (which is increased by eating meat, other saturated fatty animal products and eggs).  Animals that evolved to eat meat do not get this because they are able to regulate their cholesterol.
• Our teeth.  Look at a picture of a bear (omnivore), cow and human skull.
• Meat doesn't taste good in its raw, unprocessed/uncooked form.  Fruits and plants do.
• Many people claim that meat is what was responsible for our great big brains, but this is very obviously untrue as many animals eat meat.  Cooking is what was responsible for that accelerated development.
• Humans have no natural predatory instincts towards animals; we have nurturing instincts towards animals and an aversion to seeing animals slaughtered (people who visit slaughterhouses that have not been desensitized to the killing of animals tend to get physically ill).
• In my experience, everyone who has switched to a plant-based diet cures some kind of ailment or chronic health condition.  The worlds leading diabetes and heart disease doctors are both vegan and both recommend a plant-based vegan diet to reverse and prevent their associated diseases.

@Free Spirit There is no biological reason that you need to eat meat or animal products.  It is purely personal preference.  Animal products are very calorie dense so it may be as simple as, you're not eating enough.  For adding calories to your diet you can include things like plant-based protein shakes, smoothies, nut butters and plant oils.

Just a note: this community does appear to have quite a few vegans and vegetarians so you're probably going to get advice leaning that direction (myself included).  Now, it is not without good reason but just do your own research.  If you're experiencing negative side effects from your plant-based diet, it is probably because you're not getting the proper nutrition.  Not because you cannot be a vegan/vegetarian for some biological reason.

[David]

This will be my last post in this thread because I don't wish to argue. I hope you will all keep in mind that along with not really being able to regulate things like cholesterol the body also does not produce cholesterol like it also doesn't produce vitamin C. This means that you must ingest it. And if you doubt that we need cholesterol, look into what your brain is made out of and what role cholesterol plays in brain function. I also don't wish to discouraged anyone from a path they feel is best for them. Best wishes to all ☺

[Phocus]

23 minutes ago, David said:

This will be my last post in this thread because I don't wish to argue. I hope you will all keep in mind that along with not really being able to regulate things like cholesterol the body also does not produce cholesterol like it also doesn't produce vitamin C. This means that you must ingest it. And if you doubt that we need cholesterol, look into what your brain is made out of and what role cholesterol plays in brain function. I also don't wish to discouraged anyone from a path they feel is best for them. Best wishes to all ☺

http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-topics/topics/hbc

"Your body needs some cholesterol to make hormones, vitamin D, and substances that help you digest foods. Your body makes all the cholesterol it needs. However, cholesterol also is found in some of the foods you eat."

And Agreed, I definitely don't  want to argue either.  Just trying to offer my perspective and give a little bit of an explanation for why i believe the things that I do.

[Alexanderryen]

@Phocus Great post, cloudn't put it better myself! I think we should get the most calories from foods that we find satisfying and delicious in its raw natural state like fruits and some greens/veggies for optimal health and wellbeing  

Edited March 8, 2016 by Alexanderryen

[nbolt]

@David the heaviest weight ever carried by a human being was done by a long-time vegan. there are tons of incredibly in-shape vegan athletes that compete at olympic levels, and some with world records. I think they're getting enough vitamins and cholesterol
: )

Edited March 8, 2016 by Neill Bolton

[Guest]

@Neill Bolton Surely this is all possible, but the three major problems for people to set up a healthy vegan lifestyle are:

• Lack of education and proper knowledge of what to consume. They fail to get all the nutrients that they need and they suffer. Especially those who work out suffer.
• Lack of willpower and motivation to become vegan. They simply don't give enough fucks
• Lack of time and money to make a healthy vegan lifestyle possible. One cannot survive on peppers and apples only and shit's expensive, especially some suppliments.

I would go so far and say that people struggle with the third point the most. I do certainly. If I had enough cash for everything I need to be a healthy vegan I would become one in an instant.

[nbolt]

People just view it as inconvenient and since the rest of society doesn't care, why should they. It also has far-reaching moral consequences, and switching to a vegan lifestyle basically means accepting that you've contributed to the worst genocide in this planet's history, and it's much easier for people's ego's to just dismiss this and go along with the rest of society. I think it ultimately comes down to this cognitive dissonance.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Neill Bolton

[Alexanderryen]

@The Son The only supplement you need is b12. And a healthy vegan diet could even be more cheap. Rice, beans, legumes, rasins, pasta, potatoes, bananas, and oats are one of the cheapest foods on the planet. If you want it to work you will find a way...It all depends on how much you want good health, cause less suffering for fellow animals, and less environmental destruction. Its a lot easier than you think!

If you want to learn more check out:

nutritionfacts.org (Nutrition and health)

Forks over knifes (Health Documentary on netflix)

 Cowspiracy (The environment, on youtube and netflix)

Earthlings (ethics, on youtube)

Edited March 9, 2016 by Alexanderryen

[Guest]

@Alexanderryen thank you I will check everything out. 

[Alexanderryen]

@The Son No problem bro, glad i could help!

[StarGazor]

If you're a vegan or vegetarian, do you also stop using leather jackets. What about other household products that are made from animals. For example, do you wear a leather belt? Shoes? They all come from animals. 

[Alexanderryen]

@StarGazor Vegans don't buy or eat anything from a animal, but some do wear leather/wool if its from before they went vegan instead of trowing it away. They are also people how eats a vegan diet and maybe not so much into the ethics and wear leahter etc., and thats called plantbased. 

[Nic]

On 20 février 2016 at 7:59 AM, Dhana Choko said:

Can you back up this claim? To my knowledge and research, our teeth and stomach acidity and intestines are not similar to pure carnivores and human babies (or adults) are usually unwilling to eat big chunks of raw meat.

Not only this, apparently the length of our intestins is too long for being the one of a carnivore. Carnivores have lot shorter intestins and don't let their fecal matter rotten that long inside their bodies. But the claim is not that we are carnivores or not, the claim is that if we can eat meat like an omnivore... 

Maybe we are omnivores, but if some people are defending the fact the it's ok to eat meat on the health point of view, as it cannot be defended on an ethical point of view, I hope that this person don't eat red meat and pork more than once (or twice) a week, as it this is proven to give colon cancer. And the studies were probably done with healthy animals... not much like the meat you randomly buy in supermarkets or eat in restaurants, and it is also not told what part of the animal was used for the study, I believe they didn't use the burger, bolognese type of meat. With the new studies we could believe that fish or white meat don't give colon cancer... therefor are not as harmful... Well I would be extremely cautious. Science is limited, fact is that we can't trust science and what is bad for one person might be ok for the other.

So to sum up my point of view, meat eaters should reduce their consumption of meat to once a week, decide consciously what day and what meat they are going to ingest and always take into consideration that you don't know the animals story, and also that you might be the lucky guy that finds a piece of meat that is not heavily charged in chemical cocktails, heavy metals, plastic, radiations and negative energy. Maybe it is your lucky day after all, that if it happened two weeks in a row, that would be a true mirical !!! 

By reducing it, they will do themselves and the world a big favor. 

Oh and it should never be cooked in a pan or be fried, but that's another story.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Nic

[Sri McDonald Trump Maharaj]

I was going to experiment with going from full meat eater to vegan for a month and see how i felt afterwards. It has been about 7 months now and I have never looked back. Maybe you should experiment...

[Guest]

I'd say if you want to become vegetarian or vegan for health reasons, don't waste your time. The debates surrounding whether vegetarianism or meat-eating is more healthy is a perpetual circle of bullshit, and will not help you at all.

On the other hand, if you want to become vegetarian or vegan for ethical reasons, then yes, 100% do it. It seems like a large sacrifice at first, but there's also a large relief of not having to lie to yourself every time you think about this issue. Pain, suffering and will to live is real, and it applies to every sentient being. (As does compassion and love)

[JevinR]

The only problem with veganism is the isoflavones derived from soy, otherwise you would need to allocate some sort of protein source:

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/dietary-factors/phytochemicals/soy-isoflavones

 

A possibility:

 

http://www.onegreenplanet.org/natural-health/vegan-sources-of-protein/

 

Also need to noose the dairy, egg industry as this the type of gruesome savage atrocities found in that sht:

Warning [Viewer Discretion is Advised]

 

 

 

 

 

Need to accumulate resources and strike down hard on these industries.

 

Instead, grass-fed organic and switch to nut milks. Pasteurized eggs with no cruelty what so ever, still thinking of an alternative to cows milk, possibly raw milk?? Must find reputable brand owner, as listed on quora -  https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible-to-produce-cow-milk-humanely -

 farmers that treat their cows 'humanely' just let them have sex with bulls. (I'm not sure if this ethical, but it's better than butchery)

Still brainstorming some ideas for this one, would appreciate help. Very difficult switching to pure vegan, but you do gain tons of energy. Just the isoflavones that are a problem, more estrogen, less testosterone, don't want Gyno (Man breasts) or want emotional/mood swings.

[Action_Junkie]

@Free Spirit Hi mate,

People here have great insights to both sides of the story.

Because I was bombarded by so much information, I wasn't able to make a decision initially purely out of confusion.

But for a month, I decided to just give it a go and listen to how my body felt as compared to relying on external information. This is what I noticed within myself after not eating meats for a month:

1. I had higher, more sustained energy
2. My digestion was more consistent
3. I became hungry quicker
4. I lost weight (counter intuitive to above hah)
5. I found it easier to make food decisions as food options became more limited

This is what happened to me. I encourage you to find out through experiential learning and see whether it works for you or not.

Let us know how it goes 

Kern

Edited April 7, 2016 by ElenaO
Remove the promotional link

[Gmork]

Make sure you understand biology of humans before you go into any diet. For example you need right amount of omega-3s and omega-6s and vegan diet is commonly known for bad proportion of those. So take stuff like that into account. Take care about amino-acids in protein you need to get all that we do not create, and not many vegan food have right amount (or enaugh of right amount). Do calculation dont do it by feel.