Sin

[Dino D]

So, in the light of enlightement, non duality where does sin, fit in? Is there anythng that actually is a sin? Or is sin just a concept and nothing is a sin? Nothing is really bad, wrong? It does'nt matter anyways?

Christianity has of course an other idea-so many sins and so many reasons to feel guilty, so does also my relative remorse/morality/ethic do... I have an sense for what sin is, despite what I think or read about it,  I always feel the same about it...

If not so, how do I know what is a sin, and what not? What defines an realistic line what a sin is, and what we should not do? (I just can not belive that raping, killing could be ok-so it's not, but how exactly do we drive a line what is good and bad, what is a sin, and what not? what is moral or can anything be moral?

Also in the light of self development, sin could be bad for us, or should we live and do how much sins we like ... What do you think of it?

 

One thing more I have to say, besides of all the non dual theory or psyhology in general, al always feel for the same things deep in my heart that they are sins and I feel bad about them... I can find 1000 explonations for some stuff that I have done (and it's not killing  but common ,,unethical" stuf like lies or cheating someone and so on) that relativize what I have done, or that make it look ok-normal, accepteble, that explain the psyhology and mehanics of the reasons that lead to such acts-so that I must not be responsible for what I have done-its the media, the tv, the society, my body, instincts needs, also it isn't wrong when we look at it from other angles, other systems, cultures and so on, but in my heart, it's still a sin, and I feel bad about it...

What to think about sins? are they sins at all? if so or not so, what to do about your sins?

[Nahm]

I think the root of the word sin meant more to speak ill of one's self, and then was morphed or hijacked by religion. Although, Moses was onto something great if we connect these dots:

1 Moses said God's name is "I am"

2 Moses wrote the commandments that defined the 'sins'.

Perhaps the original intention was not to do those things because of the emotional hell we would inflect on ourselves?

A good general rule would be not to have any negative impact on others, negative as in unwanted. Which is easy if you never speak or think ill of yourself.

 

 

Only you can decide your morality. Some people insist they bear no responsibility for their past actions because it was destiny. I myself feel that I make choices and bear the responsibility for them. In the end, we only have to live with ourselves in this life. 

 

 

 

[Prabhaker]

1 hour ago, Dino D said:

Is there anythng that actually is a sin?

Any action coming out of unconsciousness is sin. The action may look virtuous, but it cannot be. You may create a beautiful facade, a character, a certain virtuousness; you may speak the truth, you may avoid lies; you may try to be moral, and so on and so forth. But if all this is coming from unconsciousness, it is all sin.

Don't be unconscious because that is wrong. And then whatsoever you do in consciousness is right. But people are living in unconsciousness. And let me tell you: in unconsciousness you may think you are doing something right, but it can't be right. Out of unconsciousness, virtue cannot flower; it may appear virtuous but it can't be. Deep down it will still be something wrong. If you are unconscious and you give money to a poor man, watch: your ego is strengthened. This is sin.

To be aware is to be virtuous. And to remain in unawareness is the only sin. You may be doing good things without awareness. But those good things are no longer good, because they come out of darkness, unconsciousness, blindness. And as far as awareness is concerned, a man who is full of awareness, alert, cannot do anything wrong. It is intrinsically impossible. Awareness brings so much clarity, so much perception, so much understanding that it is impossible to do anything that can be harmful to anyone. It is impossible to interfere with somebody's freedom or somebody's life. You can only be a blessing to existence, nothing else.

[Consept]

I think essentially sin is just something thats not true to you, that goes against what you feel is right. So there could be temptation ie to take advantage of someone for your gain but then you know thats not right and if you are aware enough youll get a feeling to that end.

Organised religion is about control and the best way to get control is fear so if you label something which is a personal choice, say for example sex before marriage, as a sin, people will be in fear of their own natural urges 

[Dino D]

13 hours ago, Nahm said:

I think the root of the word sin meant more to speak ill of one's self, and then was morphed or hijacked by religion. Although, Moses was onto something great if we connect these dots:

1 Moses said God's name is "I am"

2 Moses wrote the commandments that defined the 'sins'.

Perhaps the original intention was not to do those things because of the emotional hell we would inflect on ourselves?

A good general rule would be not to have any negative impact on others, negative as in unwanted. Which is easy if you never speak or think ill of yourself.

 

 

Only you can decide your morality. Some people insist they bear no responsibility for their past actions because it was destiny. I myself feel that I make choices and bear the responsibility for them. In the end, we only have to live with ourselves in this life. 

 

 

 

I myself feel that I make choices and bear the responsibility for them. How does this look like?

A christian way would be to confess your sins from the heart and ask for forgivness, and for gods mersy...

Other way would be to meditate, to accept it your self, to forgive it and to let it go, also to realize that the past and the sin is not the truth, because it doesnt exist because it is just a tought, not reallity, and it's is also relative because it is a sin from an subjective point of view...

And for me it is like I have the need to fix the things that I think are sins or that came from sins, so to take action in real life to make things right, that still includes to firstly honestly confess everything to me, and to ask for forgivness... I wolud like the most just to sitt in my room and let it go and accept everything, it's the harder easy way

[Dino D]

13 hours ago, Prabhaker said:

Any action coming out of unconsciousness is sin. The action may look virtuous, but it cannot be. You may create a beautiful facade, a character, a certain virtuousness; you may speak the truth, you may avoid lies; you may try to be moral, and so on and so forth. But if all this is coming from unconsciousness, it is all sin.

Don't be unconscious because that is wrong. And then whatsoever you do in consciousness is right. But people are living in unconsciousness. And let me tell you: in unconsciousness you may think you are doing something right, but it can't be right. Out of unconsciousness, virtue cannot flower; it may appear virtuous but it can't be. Deep down it will still be something wrong. If you are unconscious and you give money to a poor man, watch: your ego is strengthened. This is sin.

To be aware is to be virtuous. And to remain in unawareness is the only sin. You may be doing good things without awareness. But those good things are no longer good, because they come out of darkness, unconsciousness, blindness. And as far as awareness is concerned, a man who is full of awareness, alert, cannot do anything wrong. It is intrinsically impossible. Awareness brings so much clarity, so much perception, so much understanding that it is impossible to do anything that can be harmful to anyone. It is impossible to interfere with somebody's freedom or somebody's life. You can only be a blessing to existence, nothing else.

This remmembers me a lot of the teachings from gurdjieff and ouspensky  

Awareness is truly amazing and let's you see the truth, in my meditational moments, or emotional relases I was really aware of a lot going in in me, and I finally saw so sharp into me, but that have been just moments. In everyday life my awareness or maybe batter to say attantion does not pun any light into my being, I just get more concetrate on my thoughts, or I think more or analize more witch is just a relative subjective mind thing... Yes I see that I could be smart and so I have a lot of insights, also from books, but I know it's not from a higher counciousness, just common mind... So it's hard for me to see the line of real sin, and a subjective paranoid lie... Being consciousness and trying to be consciousness is not the same, it can evan lead to more deluzions... Look at my other post quote where I ask what to practically do about it?

[Dino D]

2 hours ago, Consept said:

I think essentially sin is just something thats not true to you, that goes against what you feel is right. So there could be temptation ie to take advantage of someone for your gain but then you know thats not right and if you are aware enough youll get a feeling to that end.

Organised religion is about control and the best way to get control is fear so if you label something which is a personal choice, say for example sex before marriage, as a sin, people will be in fear of their own natural urges 

yes, when I read religous stuff, and there are also sharp minded people who can write things in an impressive way so that it looks true, I get the feeling of fear, and the idea that I only can get redamption if I do as they say, or as the bible sais... Also they make ramana maharashi and non duality look as devils doing, for which they give evan good arguments. Of course my common sense and logical mind sees how this is just mind control, and propaganda, but the open mind part of me who is evan ready to be open to that, to the idea that religion is the truth, still gives me problems, what if that is true? what if religion is true? so there are evan people who did mushrooms, had enlightement experiencess meditatet and so on, but in the end they found salvation in Jesus and God with religion (example youtuber Steven Bancarz)... Especially that my spiritual path, the non duality path isn't really working out for me... No enlightenment, no truth, no happines, maybe evan more confusions, (yep there is a lot of positive things, but I can't say that I feel happy, fulfilled or that my life makes sense or that I really really know wtf am I doing) an honnestly I don't see this in other people, evan not in Leo... All those non duality folks seem still lost, in a search, not trully happy, still working on finding the truth and so on (maybe just the top jogis/gurus seem to have true authority, and give truly conviction... This formum seems much more full of people like me, and very little people in a state of mojiji, eckart tolle, rupert spira etc...

Just looking for the truth, and happines, let's continue

[FindingPeace]

15 hours ago, Dino D said:

Is there anythng that actually is a sin?

A sin, or evil, or bad are just labels to identify things that serve against your own interests. Or the interests of the majority. Ulimately, any action that serves against someone's own interest will be regarded by that person as 'bad' or 'wrong' or a 'sin'. So it is entirely subjective.

If it wasn't for humans evaluating everything in accordance to their own self-agendas, there would be no 'good' or 'bad'. After all, who would we making the judgment?

[Dino D]

4 minutes ago, FindingPeace said:

A sin, or evil, or bad are just labels to identify things that serve against your own interests. Or the interests of the majority. Ulimately, any action that serves against someone's own interest will be regarded by that person as 'bad' or 'wrong' or a 'sin'. So it is entirely subjective.

If it wasn't for humans evaluating everything in accordance to their own self-agendas, there would be no 'good' or 'bad'. After all, who would we making the judgment?

This sounds true! There isn't much that I can say to argue with that, it's my own opinion too. But still? Is that really true for you? Do you feel/know deep down in your heart like that?

[Consept]

41 minutes ago, Dino D said:

yes, when I read religous stuff, and there are also sharp minded people who can write things in an impressive way so that it looks true, I get the feeling of fear, and the idea that I only can get redamption if I do as they say, or as the bible sais... Also they make ramana maharashi and non duality look as devils doing, for which they give evan good arguments. Of course my common sense and logical mind sees how this is just mind control, and propaganda, but the open mind part of me who is evan ready to be open to that, to the idea that religion is the truth, still gives me problems, what if that is true? what if religion is true? so there are evan people who did mushrooms, had enlightement experiencess meditatet and so on, but in the end they found salvation in Jesus and God with religion (example youtuber Steven Bancarz)... Especially that my spiritual path, the non duality path isn't really working out for me... No enlightenment, no truth, no happines, maybe evan more confusions, (yep there is a lot of positive things, but I can't say that I feel happy, fulfilled or that my life makes sense or that I really really know wtf am I doing) an honnestly I don't see this in other people, evan not in Leo... All those non duality folks seem still lost, in a search, not trully happy, still working on finding the truth and so on (maybe just the top jogis/gurus seem to have true authority, and give truly conviction... This formum seems much more full of people like me, and very little people in a state of mojiji, eckart tolle, rupert spira etc...

Just looking for the truth, and happines, let's continue

Yeah i get what youre saying and i think at the root most religions start off as basically a way to get to oneness or god or whatever you want to call it. The problem is when say a religious experience is translated into language its no longer the religious experience anymore just someones interpretation. So this is why its important to just see anything anyone tells you as sign posts and not the actual experience, only you can experience that. 

The issue i have with religion in particular things like christianity is that they promise salvation in the future and make it conditional on what you do or what 'sins' you commit. Logically this doesnt make sense because if im born poor or into a criminal family its a completely different choice im making in comparison to someone born rich who doesnt actually need to steal. So for me its all about the control element when its put into practice. Also by claiming salvation is in the future it ensures youre never content in the now 

[Nahm]

No judgement, no sin, no need to pray for others. Acceptance. 

[Dino D]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

No judgement, no sin, no need to pray for others. Acceptance. 

There is nothing as powerful as guilt; and the ability to simply alleviate it with a set of beliefs through placing the blame elsewhere (instead of real personal action) is only second to it. The ancient ritual of the scape goat and the washing baptism ceremonies are all part of the guilt alleviation rituals. The responsibility for one's self is too much for most people. Indeed simply giving people some belief system without taking any action to change a hurting world is something to feel guilty about. with sin you would have been able to understand the guilt that eventually conquered your psyche and take real action in the world. qoute from a youtuber... 

I have to take what you say for real and honest, so no judgement, and no sin if I kill your family, acceptance... Then you say, but not that, but this meens it's not absolutly no judgement and no sin, and if you still say no judgment no sin, but of course no killing or raping, than that is Hypocritical to me...

(I can be no judgmental to people who do marijuana, or hava tatoos, or sex before marige, or do some ,,ordinary" stuff, but killing, raping, capitalism cravinsg, cheating, selfishness and so on ) 

What is a sin, at the end, tell's me my heart/ remorse-conscience... I'm always ready too accept what you say, but I demand that that you speak trully from your heart, and whole being, that you really feel so deep down inside of you, not just from a non dual theory that sounds like truth but it isn't...

I still hope you're right, and all this connected with non duality is, but I don't know it, and I don't really see it in me, not in me, not in other people too... I see 10-20 gurus and milions of people who try to get there but they cant!!!! like me... Some of them have amazing experiencess, some have great knowledge, but almost no one of them is the living truth of the non dual theory they ,,preach" on the internet...

btw. for everything non dual I have to pay, literally, almost every non dual teacher wants money... 

Edited March 7, 2017 by Dino D
just wanted to say it

[Dino D]

Thx too all of you... Youre all amazing people whit very sharp minds and great insights... I'm glad too have the oportunity to talk with people like you... I live in an conservative country, with people who don't spend one second on stuff like this  and who live an 99% mehanical life withoud questioning anything, and with an closed mind that thinks he is right about EVERYTHING  thx

[Nahm]

23 minutes ago, Dino D said:

There is nothing as powerful as guilt; and the ability to simply alleviate it with a set of beliefs through placing the blame elsewhere (instead of real personal action) is only second to it. The ancient ritual of the scape goat and the washing baptism ceremonies are all part of the guilt alleviation rituals. The responsibility for one's self is too much for most people. Indeed simply giving people some belief system without taking any action to change a hurting world is something to feel guilty about. with sin you would have been able to understand the guilt that eventually conquered your psyche and take real action in the world. qoute from a youtuber... 

I have to take what you say for real and honest, so no judgement, and no sin if I kill your family, acceptance... Then you say, but not that, but this meens it's not absolutly no judgement and no sin, and if you still say no judgment no sin, but of course no killing or raping, than that is Hypocritical to me...

(I can be no judgmental to people who do marijuana, or hava tatoos, or sex before marige, or do some ,,ordinary" stuff, but killing, raping, capitalism cravinsg, cheating, selfishness and so on ) 

What is a sin, at the end, tell's me my heart/ remorse-conscience... I'm always ready too accept what you say, but I demand that that you speak trully from your heart, and whole being, that you really feel so deep down inside of you, not just from a non dual theory that sounds like truth but it isn't...

I still hope you're right, and all this connected with non duality is, but I don't know it, and I don't really see it in me, not in me, not in other people too... I see 10-20 gurus and milions of people who try to get there but they cant!!!! like me... Some of them have amazing experiencess, some have great knowledge, but almost no one of them is the living truth of the non dual theory they ,,preach" on the internet...

btw. for everything non dual I have to pay, literally, almost every non dual teacher wants money... 

Try to place the conception of no judgement first. There would be no murder, etc. The population is currently, of course, not there. So we have a need for laws, etc. In the future, we will not have a need for such laws, judgments, etc. We evolved from oneness, to separatism of the self, and are evolving back into oneness, with the awareness of self. 

[Dino D]

3 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Try to place the conception of no judgement first. There would be no murder, etc. The population is currently, of course, not there. So we have a need for laws, etc. In the future, we will not have a need for such laws, judgments, etc. We evolved from oneness, to separatism of the self, and are evolving back into oneness, with the awareness of self. 

brilliant... 

[Sevi]

 

 

"Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing there is a field. I'll meet you there." 

 

Rumi