Are men polygamous and women Monogamous?

[Emerald]

11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The higher your level of testosterone, the more you treat sex as a fun activity with no attachment or higher significance, and the more variety of sex you will require.

If you inject a woman with testosterone, she becomes slutty.

Not so sure that that’s true.

Testosterone tends to correlate with more masculine features in women… like facial hair and deeper voices.

But I’ve known plenty of very feminine women who are more promiscuous… and plenty of more masculine women who are more commitment oriented.

And vice versa.

And the same goes for men. Plenty of very burly men who are commitment oriented, and plenty of promiscuous variety-seeking feminine men.

Most of the gay men that I know seek a lot of variety while possessing more feminine qualities.

So I see no correlation anecdotally… nor have I seen any studies that suggest this.

Are you sure this is true? Or is it pop science that you heard in the pick up community?

[Nilsi]

16 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

@Someone here

@Nilsi Bullshit. Nothing advanced or developed about being polyamorous. It's dysfunctional by default. It's for people who cannot form real, authentic, loving connections. It's a degeneration in one's evolution, not progression or advancement.

lol

There's actually deep reasons for why an extremely advanced species would be polyamorous.

It's not dysfunctional if you're selfless - monogamy is way more dysfunctional; we don't even have strict monogamy, more like polygyny, which naturally happens when 99% of men are degenerates.

[Someone here]

@ivankiss

Gosh, hopefully my value won't be  decreased having sex a couple of of times with 26 years.  I know many will find me weird. but luckily, I don't walk in the streets with a banner writing I'm Virgin.

No one knows, only my parents, my one granny (my other Angel passed away one month ago), and my brother, not even my friends (they are all in relationships, baby... And you right now. 

When my time comes to have a committed relationship, I hope the girl won't run away, or she will only be with me to make sex with me, and disappear forever. That's why, I doubt I'll say you also had deep sexual experiences. In fact I think you never had experience in sex. I'm not gonna argue over that because it's silly. 

And you said you are just "killing time". So I hope you're enjoying our discourse, sir. 

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by Someone here

[Someone here]

38 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you inject a woman with testosterone, she becomes slutty

Do you mean estrogen? Because that's the feminine sexual hormone. 

I'm sure if you inject women with testosterone, her clit will slowly turn into a dick head lol

[Nilsi]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

Do you mean estrogen? Because that's the feminine sexual hormone. 

I'm sure if you inject women with testosterone, her clit will slowly turn into a dick head lol

They have shot up women with T for science and reported that their horniness went through the roof. 

[Someone here]

5 minutes ago, Nilsi said:

They have shot up women with T for science and reported that their horniness went through the roof. 

Source? 

[UnbornTao]

The idea of having a single romantic partner for most of your adult life sounds a bit "unnatural" to me as a mating strategy. What do other animal species, especially mammals like apes, do? Something to research, perhaps.

I think a more effective survival strategy would be having multiple ones, especially in the beginnings of humanity. So in that case that type of behavior would be "genetical" or natural somehow. It's a fact that marriage, monogamy and all beliefs associated with it seem to be relatively recent cultural inventions. What was survival like before these inventions, considering that historically it's been extremely rough? What's it like compared to other species? 

Notice your cultural bias when talking as one "style" having certain positive or negative connotations as opposed to the other.

Though I don't know what I'm talking about ultimately, just sharing some impressions.

Edited February 10, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Nilsi]

29 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Source? 

I'm pretty sure I've heard Huberman and Sapolsky talk about this.

There are also dozens of studies - just search Google scholar.

[Nilsi]

14 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

A much more effective survival strategy would be having multiple ones, which makes sense especially in the beginnings of humanity. So in that case that type of behavior would be "genetical" or natural somehow. Except the fact that marriage, monogamy and all beliefs associated with it seem to be relatively recent cultural inventions. What was it like before these inventions in rough survival situations? What's it like compared to other species? 

Our foraging ancestors were likely polyamorous and used sex as a tool to keep social cohesion. 

When there was a disagreement, you just had sex and got over it.

This is how Bonobos do it as well (arguably our closest relatives).

Evolutionary psychology is an extremely broad field though and there is a lot to be said about the advantages of every mating system.

[soos_mite_ah]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The higher your level of testosterone, the more you treat sex as a fun activity with no attachment or higher significance, and the more variety of sex you will require.

If you inject a woman with testosterone, she becomes slutty.

*laughs in virgin with PCOS*

6 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Being polyamorous is just a lame excuse for not being able to fully commit to a relationship, be loyal and respectful, etc. It has nothing to do with gender, rather one's level of development.

I think such people do exist but I also think that being polyamorous regardless of form (whether it be having romantic/sexual relationships with multiple people, feeling comfortable in things like threesomes and orgies, or having an open relationship) can be valid for people so long as it is coming from a healthy place. I also think that polyamory can get super unhealthy when there is a double standard involved.  At the same time, I don't think it's healthy to treat monogamy as the default option because it can invalidate all of the ways we can romantically and sexually engage with one another and because treating monogamy as the default can lead to normalizing toxic, possessive behaviors. Sometimes polyamory can be a way of experimenting, spicing up a current relationship, or branching out while still being affirmed in your current relationship.

Personally, I'm not open to a polyamorous relationship because that just feels like there are too many people involved but I am open to experimenting with sex outside of the relationship or engaging with multiple partners at once, and I'm comfortable with my partner doing the same. I have talked about this with my partner before and we are pretty open to such conversations. Loyalty is less about being possessive with your partner and more about consent imo. Cheating hurts not necessarily because it's outside of the bounds of a monogamous relationship but because it violates a person's boundaries and consent and is done behind someone's back. Because there are people who are in nonmongamous situations while being in a committed relationshnip and that doesn't inherently cause problems or pain. I personally would be comfortable with my partner having sex with someone else so long as it isn't behind my back and we've talked about it. I feel very assured in our relationship and I want to make sure things are coming from a healthy place both from an individual and couple standpoint and address any other concerns I might have. But if those aren't your boundaries, that's perfectly fine too. People have different preferences and things that make them feel emotionally safe and it's important to honor that and honor your preferences/ boundaries as well.  

I also remember back when I identified as ace, I was still open to the idea of my partner having sex with others mainly because I thought that it wasn't healthy for people to put all of their eggs in one basket and expect one person to fulfill all of their needs, and because this was something that I didn't feel comfortable at the time doing. 

On 2/8/2023 at 1:41 PM, Someone here said:

I'm all for sexual freedom for women. But let's face it.. When a guy have a bunch of sex with a bunch of women.. It is considered a sign of his manhood. When women do the same they get slut-shamed. Why? 

Because on some level, a lot of men see women as property and the thought of another man using their object fucks them up in the head and they get possessive. It's the same reason why using the excuse "I have a boyfriend" even if you are single is more effective in warding guys off than simply saying no. Men often don't respect women unless she is seen as belonging to someone else. 

Then there is a lot of religious arguments that are mostly bs and enforce patriarchial norms to control women, especially their sexuality. Because men are insecure and the thought of a woman having more experience than them (or in some cases, any experience) makes them feel like they are less of a man because sex is seen as a form of conquest rather than pleasure or a way of connecting with others. 

[Hardkill]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The higher your level of testosterone, the more you treat sex as a fun activity with no attachment or higher significance, and the more variety of sex you will require.

If you inject a woman with testosterone, she becomes slutty.

Do you know for sure that if a woman took anabolic steroids, testosterone drugs, or some of form of androgenic drug will make her as horny as men are?

Also, given that weightlifting does increase your testosterone levels and if more testosterone does increase a person's desire to have sex with others for fun and no attachment or higher significance, then does that mean that female weightlifters and bodybuilders actually have more casual sex than most other women?

Edited February 10, 2023 by Hardkill

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, Emerald said:

Are you sure this is true? Or is it pop science that you heard in the pick up community?

They have done studies of injecting women with T. Women become more slutty and detached, like men.

This doesn't mean masculine women are slutty by default.

Edited February 10, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Manusia]

On 2/9/2023 at 8:57 AM, Emerald said:

So, most men have to choose between singleness and shallow wide plurality OR relationship and deep narrow monogamy. 

This is interesting how to look. @Emerald

1. Is the statement suggesting that there is a fundamental dichotomy between singleness and shallow wide plurality on the one hand, and relationship and deep narrow monogamy on the other, and that individuals must inevitably choose one of these paths?

2. Does the statement imply that a deep, narrow monogamous relationship is necessarily superior to a shallow, wide plurality of relationships, and if so, why?

[Hardkill]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

They have done studies of injecting women with T. Women become more slutty and detached, like men.

This doesn't mean masculine women are slutty by default.

But why are there studies out there that say that its still not clear as to whether or not a woman taking any androgen based drugs works does increase her libido?

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/menopause/expert-answers/testosterone-therapy/faq-20057935#:~:text=Answer From Yvonne Butler Tobah,for women also is unknown.

So, a very feminine woman could have above average levels of testosterone for her gender?

 

[Emerald]

3 hours ago, Manusia said:

This is interesting how to look. @Emerald

1. Is the statement suggesting that there is a fundamental dichotomy between singleness and shallow wide plurality on the one hand, and relationship and deep narrow monogamy on the other, and that individuals must inevitably choose one of these paths?

2. Does the statement imply that a deep, narrow monogamous relationship is necessarily superior to a shallow, wide plurality of relationships, and if so, why?

The dichotomy isn’t so much about polygamy vs monogamy… both of these can create a stable environment for child rearing as long as there is consistency to the familial structure.

The dichotomy is that of wide/shallow and narrow/deep.

And wide/shallow orientation creates problems for familial stability. This makes wide/shallow orientation inferior to deep/narrow if the goals are pair bonding, family building child rearing, and community building.

And biologically speaking, those are the fundamental goals underneath our sex drives as human beings. And while men and women’s strategies for getting there look different, both of these strategies are fundamentally about coming together to build stable families.

And since our sexual instincts are fundamentally about procreation and child rearing, (generally speaking) men have two natural modes… wide/shallow and deep/narrow where women have one mode which is deep/narrow.

Men tend to begin wide/shallow in the early courtship process… and then move to narrow/deep as the relationship progresses. And women tend to be narrow/deep in both early courtship and in the progression of the relationship.

But the biological goal is to both get to deep/narrow.

So, men who haven’t experienced deep/narrow yet and have not experienced marriage and fatherhood, they might think wide/shallow is the only natural thing.

But it is important for men who value pair bonding, fatherhood, and community stability to put these two instincts (wide/shallow and narrow/deep) in the proper relationship with one another to serve the stability of their family and community.

This takes some maturing to do this well and to realize where the deeper pull of their masculine instincts are actually leading them.

To elucidate this, think of the quote “still waters run deep”.

And if men’s sexual instincts are like currents in the water in this analogy…

The deepest currents of instinct are the most powerful… but they are also much more subtle and take maturity to recognize and connect to.

But the shallower currents of instinct are there too. And they’re much easier to understand, appreciate, and connect to.

But biologically, these shallower instincts around casting the net wide  are there to serve the deeper instincts of building healthy families and communities.

[Emerald]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

They have done studies of injecting women with T. Women become more slutty and detached, like men.

This doesn't mean masculine women are slutty by default.

Interesting. I wonder why these things diverge.

If more testosterone leads all people to have a higher sex drive… then why aren’t more masculine women the most easily aroused and promiscuous?

[Someone here]

8 hours ago, soos_mite_ah said:

Because on some level, a lot of men see women as property and the thought of another man using their object fucks them up in the head and they get possessive. It's the same reason why using the excuse "I have a boyfriend" even if you are single is more effective in warding guys off than simply saying no. Men often don't respect women unless she is seen as belonging to someone else. 

Then there is a lot of religious arguments that are mostly bs and enforce patriarchial norms to control women, especially their sexuality. Because men are insecure and the thought of a woman having more experience than them (or in some cases, any experience) makes them feel like they are less of a man because sex is seen as a form of conquest rather than pleasure or a way of connecting

Yes, it is a means of controlling female sexuality.. but strangely enough.. it’s often women who engage in slut-shaming.  why this occurs range from feminist theories referring to it as “internalised misogyny” (though I’ve even known feminists who’ve engaged in slut-shaming) to evolutionary psychologists calling it “female intra-sexual competition”.

As for why men engage in slut-shaming.. it’s probably because there’s a tension within men between wanting casual sex with anyone who takes their fancy, and wanting a monogamous partner who will be loyal only to them.

[StarStruck]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

They have done studies of injecting women with T. Women become more slutty and detached, like men.

This doesn't mean masculine women are slutty by default.

From my exp this is true. 

[UnbornTao]

On 2/9/2023 at 5:39 PM, ivankiss said:

@Someone here Dude, you had sex like.. twice in your life? You have a long way to go. 

@Nilsi Bullshit. Nothing advanced or developed about being polyamorous. It's dysfunctional by default. It's for people who cannot form real, authentic, loving connections. It's a degeneration in one's evolution, not progression or advancement.

I'd check your bias. Consider first your cultural conditioning. If we had been raised in a polyamorous culture, monogamy would likely be the style to be criticized. Just pointing it out, not saying one is "better" than the other.

[Leo Gura]

17 hours ago, Emerald said:

Interesting. I wonder why these things diverge.

If more testosterone leads all people to have a higher sex drive… then why aren’t more masculine women the most easily aroused and promiscuous?

Not necessarily higher sex drive. But when you have sex it is more transactional and detached.

You have to be careful not to conflate these various variables.

Edited February 11, 2023 by Leo Gura