Psychedelics and Schizophrenia

[Adrian-]

I would like to know your guys' opinion on taking psychedelics while having schizophrenia. 

So I was diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder when I was 21. Schizoaffective disorder is on the spectrum of schizophrenia and is essentially a combination of schizophrenia and Bipolar disorder. I don't necessarily hear voices or see hallucinations but when I'm off my medication I have very strong delusions while being in a manic state. These episodes are almost like a psychedelic trip itself. I have a very skewed sense of "reality" and cannot function properly in society. Without medication, I am a madman!

Before I was compliant with my medication, I would take psychedelics quite regularly. Unfortunately, being young and dumb, I took them for recreational purposes. Since then I have been taking my medication consistently and haven't tripped in about 4 years.

My question to you guys would be is it smart or safe for someone with a mental illness like schizophrenia to be taking psychedelics, even if its for spiritual purposes and intended to be used as a learning experience. 

After battling this illness for a long time I've grown to value my sanity. At the same time I regret only using psychedelics to have fun, and would love to use them as a tool for spiritual growth. 

Would love to know your thoughts on this.

[Leo Gura]

Try 1g of mushrooms and see how you feel.

No one can tell you.

[Adrian-]

@Leo Gura True, the only way to know is to try. 

It's just a little scary letting go of the feeling of control I now have on my mind with taking my medication. I use to love being in those states an embraced the absurdity. Now I feel like a square lol.

[Frosty97]

So I was once also diagnosed the same disease but right now I'm in the process of reducing and eventually getting off the meds under a supervision of a doctor.

I haven't done much psychedelics so I can't say much about those but Leo's videos have Definitely helped me to say the least.

If you are able to take control of the unconscious, take your responsibility back. If are willing to go threw some dark shit, you Can recover and moreover exceed the expectations set by others and have an exceptional life.

But you have to also be grounded in reality, tricky stuff life is.

[Staples]

See if you can find any research studies happening near you. There are lots of universities in my country looking for people with mental illnesses to help study psychedelics for therapeutic purposes.

And if you do use get a trip sitter for the first few times. And check if people taking the same medication as you have tried psilocybin, and what the effects were. 

[EddieEddie1995]

2 hours ago, Frosty97 said:

If you are able to take control of the unconscious, take your responsibility back. If are willing to go threw some dark shit, you Can recover and moreover exceed the expectations set by others and have an exceptional life.

But you have to also be grounded in reality, tricky stuff life is.

I agree. Nice! 

Bipolar is a balancing game. 

Manic: 

• clings to positive states - feel bad in a low state
• wants/likes to speak up and break the "normal" rules - feels bad about the consequences 

Depressive: 

• sadness, pain, anxiety, and guilt trigger the Manic again as self-defense. 

etc.

10 hours ago, Adrian- said:

After battling this illness for a long time I've grown to value my sanity.

Hello Adrian!

I was not diagnosed (I am afraid of doctors hehe :D) but I can see my bipolar tendencies playing out. 

Would you like to share how this is playing out in your daily life?

What sanity means for you? 

I know that when taking psychedelics I was able to notice all the fears and triggers which caused this pendulum swing. - Small trap here :) I created even more attachment to avoiding the negatives and clinging to the positives. 

Before it was like a month of mania then a month of depression. Now because I noticed the fears and I am working to integrate them, they started to subside drastically as I began to simultaneously embrace and detach from both sides and, things naturally started to fall into place. 

When taking mushrooms (I didn't take high doses), it helped me see why and how this is playing out in my life. But the issue is that I forced myself too hard and expanded the pendulum swing even more. 

So the Manic episodes were very high (I thought I was enlightened - the desire to escape suffering xD), and the Lows were very low (I thought that I am messed up and crazy - the desire to be perfect and enlightened). 

Now I try to not judge myself and just label it when it is happening. 

Just to add that most people will never experience this. They will leave a "normal" life. I am grateful for the traumas I got in my life because I could never suffer enough to see that I am not just a guy with a "disorder", I am way way way more than I thought I am, and way more than the "labels" society makes me brainwashed with. (not dismissing psychologists, of course, just not holding this too seriously - two edge sword:).

In this case, I agree with the comments above. Take it easy and implement some grounding technics and contemplation(what helped me).  I always have in mind that sometimes/usually gets worse before it gets better. And now that I developed awareness enough to "catch" myself when this is happening, I do the grounding practices that I am struggling to implement for 4 years now  

Grounding here is not to avoid negative experiences, but to be clear enough to take it to step by step.

It is definitely getting better and better! I am integrating this shit slowly but surely. I was lucky and foolish I guess, but also sometimes we need to take a leap of faith, not as a manic part of you only, but get both sides to work together. 

Also, grounding is a must here, because if you are not, the unconscious parts can flood in and freak you out. 

I mean, freaking out in this process is inevitable, the difference is how we will perceive it, and use the integrated practices to let the storm go or be strong enough to stay with it. 

I wish you all the best Sir! 

------------------------------------------------------

Also, please take advice very carefully. I am on the journey as well and I am just beginning to get aware of how unconscious and bunkers this can turn into. 

This is what worked for me: 

1. Affirmation: 

"I am not that, I am not that, I am not that...." - It disengages me from the parts that I don't like and like. 

Then I switch it to "I am, I am, I am, I am...." - Which naturally starts to accept all the things that you like and don't like. 

This is powerful! Be careful!

2. Walking barefoot, sun gazing, and cold showers kinda bring the feminine and the masculine together. 

3. Fasting and eating healthy - Heavy metal detox. - The ego is just wanting for a moment to go unconscious, and toxic body makes it easy! 

4. Contemplation/Labeling practice, at least 30 minutes a day. - I do it in the morning and the evening, but many practices and things naturally started to fall into place because I stopped fearing myself and what I can do - I can let myself go and switch up the practices whenever I want to (just staring to get aware of this). 

5. Try to integrate these changes/practices from positive motivation and love, and not out of fear and desire to kill the parts in you that you hate/are ashamed of/not aligned with the idea of who you think you should be. This will be hard to distinguish, but it will get clearer over time. 

Edit: I wanted to add that from my experience I would level it generally like this: Manic is the little child that wants to break free and be the way it wants to be, and the depression side is when the manic is lost and the inner child is pushed away. 

I don't know... 

Cheers Adrian! 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by EddieEddie1995

[flowboy]

Well, you already have schizophrenia, how much worse could it get?

It definitely tends to reactivate psychotic breaks in people with schizophrenia.

The tricky part is that you'll probably have to be off your meds for the psychedelic to even work.

So then you'd need somebody to tripsit you and remind you to take your meds again afterwards.

And what if you go nuts and refuse?

I don't know.

It's a risky endeavor but some people do it.

 

 

Hallucinations and mania are a last defense against devastating traumatic memories resurfacing.

You might want to look at working with a trauma therapist to dig some of those out, it has been anecdotally documented to be curative.

[Schizophonia]

Intuitively I might avoid psychedelics with high affinity for dopamine and glutamate receptors.
So typically lysergamides (LSD, al LAD, LSA...)

They're very effective at high doses are very effective in inducing a strange state of psychosis/acute schizophrenia, for me.

[Alex_R]

I recommend you to study non-duality theory and Epistemology, then also take small doses of psychedelics, in my case dosing between 75ug and 150ug of lsd it was enough to get a very good understanding about what spirituality is and it helped me a lot in my daily life. Study the Theory is just as important as taking the psychedelic.

[Flyboy]

Highly recommend you read McGilchrist's "The Matter With Things" (and/or the Master and his Emissary) for an extremely interesting examination of schizophrenia and its relationship to your way of relating to the world.  While he doesn't explicitly say it, I personally believe that the extreme-left-brain dominance that is characteristic of schizophrenia can be directionally reversed by deliberately engaging with the world in a right-brain way as much as possible (read the book, this is deep and nuanced).  This kind of understanding may be of far more benefit to your experience of life than a brief psychedelic experience.  Maybe once you've regained a degree of balance and groundedness, consider light psychedelic experiences to test your integration.

That said, bipolar disorder is actually more characteristic of right-brain imbalance... if you have both, it's quite possible the connection between them is the problem (the corpus callosum - which functions to balance and regulate the cooperation of hemispheres).  Tread carefully, you are a unique case.  Still, I think understanding the left/right brain ways of seeing the world and being able to recognize them in action is extremely useful and will help you make sense of your sanity or apparent lack thereof.  Ultimately, it is equanimity with ALL appearances that will bring you peace, regardless of the degree of neurotypicality you exhibit.

[flowboy]

 

[BipolarGrowth]

There’s a decent chance it can trigger a manic episode. Sometimes the trade off can be worth it, but that depends on the individual’s goals and life circumstances. 

[Karla]

Following. My sis was diagnosed with schizophrenia years ago and it got me super curious. Ironically watching her have some dark experiences, along with some things she told me made me get more serious about spirituality and my own life experience. I’d love to see her do some type of study but she’s not into it.