Insights have not changed my unhealthy ego

[Wisebaxter]

I've realised that my identity is illusory. Experientially I can verify that it has no basis, because I can't find it. I can't find me anywhere else, other than consciousness, or the present moment. But still I get offended when it's suggested I am a certain thing. Or I worry than I am a certain thing, like a narcissist (thanks for the test Leo). My girlfriend had a field day with my superiority facet and I got offended. I know I can't be that, so why can't I just stop being this way? Is it the momentum of ego? Or is it that relatively speaking, I am that thing? At least to someone else. This is just an example, it could be anything. My real question is, how do you integrate a powerful insight or experience like that, so it changes your behaviour? How can you live in line with what you know is true? 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Wisebaxter

[Mulky]

That's Ok, the ego is something that exists in it's own way.  Just come to know and understand and accept how it is.  Self  honesty seems to be a thing you have access to, so just but brutally honest and accepting about everything including yourself and just that's the way it is, that's a part of reality.  It will change over time but don't try to make it change.  That's how I feel about this situation.

even though you understand the illusion of ego and it's baselessness, it still exists in it's own untrue way, it's like a kind of hypnosis that's hard to break.  It will probably become more simple and light of an ego if you keep with the intense observation of reality and complete self honesty.  

Edited February 5, 2023 by Mulky
added another paragraph

[aurum]

@Wisebaxter

Sounds like some normal human stuff. Of course you are going to worry how others perceive you, basically your entire life hinges on that perception.

I wouldn’t expect to be free from all that just off of one insight. Behavioral change can take time. You’ve got years of habits engrained.

Keep doing the work. 

[Wisebaxter]

@aurum @Mulky Thanks a lot for those posts guys. It looks like you’re both saying the same thin. Hang in there, it’s normal. It does seem to be a part of reality, even if it’s an an illusion, or baseless. It’s still a kind of phenomena. I like the idea of accepting it completely so I’ll try and do that. Sometimes it feels a bit like micromanaging myself though. Like a constant need to control my experience, to have positive emotions. It’s tiring. I can see the repetitiveness of all my thinking patterns so clearly. I yearn for something fresh and unburdened by all this clogged up ego smog. But it’s like a freight train of bullshit. 

[flowboy]

If you worry whether you're a narcissist, you ain't a narcissist.

@Wisebaxter I'm balls deep in the shadow work & therapy topic so beware of my bias.

I don't think enlightenment work is the appropriate tool for the job.

Insights don't cure neurotic behavior patterns.

This is also why talk therapy is so ineffective.

You can make someone understand why they behave the way they behave, but it doesn't change because of that.

There is value in understanding how your psyche works.

It's not just "the mind".

There's levels to it.

Beliefs, thoughts, attitudes and interpretations are only the outer layer.

Deeper layers contain childhood feelings and baby feelings. Including repressed, unprocessed ones.

These push on to the outer layer and twist the beliefs, thoughts, attitudes and interpretations.

A superiority complex could be one of a myriad of effects of that.

 

I don't agree that unhealthy aspects of the ego should be left "as is", or just "accepted".

Of course, you can, but they won't go anywhere.

Much better to actually work through it and transform it to create a healthier ego.

If you've got the time and the inclination.

Regression therapy, primal therapy, some forms of shadow work, those will get you a resolution.

See also my video on why therapy works and what makes it work.

[axiom]

11 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

I've realised that my identity is illusory. Experientially I can verify that it has no basis, because I can't find it. I can't find me anywhere else, other than consciousness, or the present moment. But still I get offended when it's suggested I am a certain thing. Or I worry than I am a certain thing, like a narcissist (thanks for the test Leo). My girlfriend had a field day with my superiority facet and I got offended. I know I can't be that, so why can't I just stop being this way? Is it the momentum of ego? Or is it that relatively speaking, I am that thing? At least to someone else. This is just an example, it could be anything. My real question is, how do you integrate a powerful insight or experience like that, so it changes your behaviour? How can you live in line with what you know is true? 

What is being said: ”my identity is illusory. I cannot find ‘me’ anywhere except consciousness”

What is then being asked:”…How do I?”

There is absolutely no way you can do anything exactly because you’re not there.

[Salvijus]

11 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

Experientially I can verify that it has no basis, because I can't find it

That's not true. We can find the ego actually. It's an observable phenomena. But it's subtle and self-awareness needs to be refined upto a certain degree to do that.

The more self aware we become the more we can observe what the ego is and how it functions. At the same time, the more we become aware of ego and it's functioning the more we trancend the ego also. This game of trancending the ego has many layers also.

Just bc somebody is not aware of the ego identity yet doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It just means lack of self awareness. That's why the ego still responds to the old situations the same way over and over again.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Salvijus

[vladorion]

11 hours ago, Wisebaxter said:

I've realised that my identity is illusory. Experientially I can verify that it has no basis, because I can't find it. I can't find me anywhere else, other than consciousness, or the present moment. But still I get offended when it's suggested I am a certain thing. Or I worry than I am a certain thing, like a narcissist (thanks for the test Leo). My girlfriend had a field day with my superiority facet and I got offended. I know I can't be that, so why can't I just stop being this way? Is it the momentum of ego? Or is it that relatively speaking, I am that thing? At least to someone else. This is just an example, it could be anything. My real question is, how do you integrate a powerful insight or experience like that, so it changes your behaviour? How can you live in line with what you know is true? 

You don't need to integrate it if it's genuine insight.

You just need to have that insight on deeper and deeper levels.

[_Archangel_]

@Wisebaxter This happens because even though you intellectually or even experiencially "get it" there are still old programs (Samskaras) that make you behave a certain way. So:

1) whenever something like this happens again, remind your self of your nature, and, if the insights you have been having are powerful enough, you will witness a sort of release, like "i comprehend and let go and don't give a fuck". Comprehend that's just the Ego reacting to a sting. The more you do it the more the release will become automatic, unraveling the programs.

2) Deepen you insights. These reactions are the clearest signs that attachment is still there and deeper layers of the matrix need to be seen through.

3) Enjoy the fact that you "see" your reactions. Use them as a tool to progress.

Edited February 6, 2023 by _Archangel_

[gettoefl]

cant do a lot about ego since anything you do is ... more ego

one thing you can do however is keep watching it closely ... you can do this since the watcher of the ego is not the ego

watching the ego will tame it and brings to the fore one's true nature

for example when anger arises i let it have its way but don't get overly involved and in so doing anger gets less and less

 

[Breakingthewall]

to really change you have to understand the structure of your personality. It is something very complex and it is not verbalizable. They are energetic patterns that are built based on survival, rejection and attachment, the vital need to be accepted.

General insights such as an enlightenment experience with a psychedelic are not enough. you have to understand in depth, and for that, understand what it means to understand. an absolutely fascinating work that requires being truly penetrating.

forget any learned wisdom, it is useless, it is superficial. Keep digging and you'll understand. your intelligence is infinite intelligence, do not underestimate it

 

[Carl-Richard]

Just be a normal person. Knowing about spirituality or having a had spiritual awakening doesn't make you special. You still have emotions and insecurities.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Leo Gura]

Insight is not a substitute for action.

Take action! 95% of life is action, not your bullshit ideas.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Thought Art]

I’ve been jamming  to this a lot and I think it has a good lyric in it about taking action: 

 

 

“And of course you can’t become 

what you only say what you would have done

so I missed a million miles of fun” Len , Stealing my sunshine 

Each time we get triggered, offended, etc simply observe it with objective awareness. Every thing that happens to us is an opportunity for gaining insights into our possibility for higher living. But we must take persistent action.  From Vernon Howard’s books I would say that these triggers are a result of the false self that remains despite your belief of not being this false ego. Each trigger or petty human reaction is a gift to bring awareness to these areas. It’s okay to be confused. Keep going. 
 

But, it’s also paradoxical. It’s okay to be something. We need not feel guilt about having attachment. It’s your right to feel however you want. 

Realizing the ego is illusory is simply the first ticket required to begin doing some deep inner work on our operating system. It’ll take years.

I still get triggered and upset, stressed by uncertainty… but I’m growing. But less and less, and when it happens with more awareness and I now use various somatic techniques, journaling, sleep, nutrition to mitigate negative emotions. 

Edited February 7, 2023 by Thought Art

[Moksha]

I used to demonize the ego, until realizing that this was just a subtle example of the ego sadistically preying on itself. Bad ego! The secret to escaping the ego is not to fight against it, but to realize your true nature beyond it.

We demand the impossible of the conditioned mind. After decades of sewing together a Frankenstein of fantasies and fears, we set it loose upon the world, demanding that reality feeds it what it wants, or else!

How ridiculous is that? Expecting the cosmos to comply with your so-called needs is the definition of insanity. Instead, why not learn to comply with the cosmos?

When you are in this flow state, life pours through you effortlessly like rain. We spend so much energy clinging to experiences we like, and resisting those we don't. What a waste of an otherwise beautiful dream.

[Breakingthewall]

10 hours ago, Moksha said:

We demand the impossible of the conditioned mind. After decades of sewing together a Frankenstein of fantasies and fears, we set it loose upon the world, demanding that reality feeds it what it wants, or else!

How ridiculous is that? Expecting the cosmos to comply with your so-called needs is the definition of insanity. Instead, why not learn to comply with the cosmos?

It is no longer just talking about spirituality and transcending the ego, but about education. This retarded society educates us to be a kind of eternal adolescent with a low tolerance for frustration, anchored in superficiality, chronically anxious and completely stupid.

Some of us have had to focus for a time on spirituality, on understanding what reality is, since the mental scheme that we had formed with the interaction with our elders and with society in general was disastrous. but many put up with it and swim all their lives in the limbo of stupidity.

[Wisebaxter]

@flowboy

On 05/02/2023 at 8:20 AM, flowboy said:

If you worry whether you're a narcissist, you ain't a narcissist.

@Wisebaxter I'm balls deep in the shadow work & therapy topic so beware of my bias.

I don't think enlightenment work is the appropriate tool for the job.

Insights don't cure neurotic behavior patterns.

This is also why talk therapy is so ineffective.

You can make someone understand why they behave the way they behave, but it doesn't change because of that.

There is value in understanding how your psyche works.

It's not just "the mind".

There's levels to it.

Beliefs, thoughts, attitudes and interpretations are only the outer layer.

Deeper layers contain childhood feelings and baby feelings. Including repressed, unprocessed ones.

These push on to the outer layer and twist the beliefs, thoughts, attitudes and interpretations.

A superiority complex could be one of a myriad of effects of that.

 

I don't agree that unhealthy aspects of the ego should be left "as is", or just "accepted".

Of course, you can, but they won't go anywhere.

Much better to actually work through it and transform it to create a healthier ego.

If you've got the time and the inclination.

Regression therapy, primal therapy, some forms of shadow work, those will get you a resolution.

See also my video on why therapy works and what makes it work.

Ah flowboy, I remember chatting to you a few years back when I did my first couple of trips. You really helped me out. This is a great post too so thank you. I need to go balls deep with shadow work too, that's so true. It seems that's the gist of what's being said to me here, with all of these replies. Do the work. Can't argue with that. So why am I not? I think it's got something to do with getting to bogged down by the infinite possibilities and ways to improve, so I don't know where to start. It's like decision paralysis. Or maybe this problem is created artificially as a sneaky ego defence. Matt Kahn talks about loving whatever arises, and that seems like a good approach. Or @Moksha nicely puts it here:

Quote

I used to demonize the ego, until realizing that this was just a subtle example of the ego sadistically preying on itself. Bad ego! The secret to escaping the ego is not to fight against it, but to realize your true nature beyond

My issue it seems is attachment, like @Leo Gura says, to all these bullshit ideas.  Anyway I'm going to get serious about shadow work, so thanks again. 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Wisebaxter

[Wisebaxter]

23 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

to really change you have to understand the structure of your personality. It is something very complex and it is not verbalizable. They are energetic patterns that are built based on survival, rejection and attachment, the vital need to be accepted.

General insights such as an enlightenment experience with a psychedelic are not enough. you have to understand in depth, and for that, understand what it means to understand. an absolutely fascinating work that requires being truly penetrating.

forget any learned wisdom, it is useless, it is superficial. Keep digging and you'll understand. your intelligence is infinite intelligence, do not underestimate it

 

@Breakingthewall Loved reading your posts, thanks a lot. Some really useful information and insights. My intent kind of bitches out due to the sheer gravity of the work I think. If only I could learn to see it as fascinating like you said. There's too much emotional attachment everything which kills my curiosity dead. I need to investigate what's going on and get serious. Spend that emotional labour and stop fucking playing Skyrim  

Edited February 6, 2023 by Wisebaxter

[Wisebaxter]

On 05/02/2023 at 10:01 AM, _Archangel_ said:

@Wisebaxter This happens because even though you intellectually or even experiencially "get it" there are still old programs (Samskaras) that make you behave a certain way. So:

1) whenever something like this happens again, remind your self of your nature, and, if the insights your insights have been having are powerful enough, you will witness a sort of release, like "i comprehend and let go and don't give a fuck". Comprehend that's just the Ego reacting to a sting. The more you do it the more the release will become automatic, unraveling the programs.

2) Deepen you insights. These reactions are the clearest signs that attachment is still there and deeper layers of the matrix need to be seen through.

3) Enjoy the fact that you "see" your reactions. Use them as a tool to progress.

@_Archangel_This is awesome advice, thank you. People on this forum never fail to get me on track or help me understand things. It really is the best forum on the internet. Objective truth! I'm going to observe my ego more from a place of love and keep reminding myself that it's not me. It seems that awareness is the key to avoiding attachment. I'll go deeper into that. Also thanks to @Thought Art for giving me some pointers here. You summed up the issue I'm having really well in your post. Much love to all you guys and gals

Edited February 6, 2023 by Wisebaxter

[Leo Gura]

@Wisebaxter Watch this:

https://www.actualized.org/articles/balancing-theory-vs-practice