Interesting podcast, Charisma and Destiny.

[Danioover9000]

   This discussion, part of it was a talk also about Destiny in Lex Fridman's podcast. Lots of insights about language, and manipulating frames:

   What are your thoughts about this convo? @Carl-Richard?

[Carl-Richard]

Destiny's insights on psychedelics are so lame ? "I learned that truth is not always good, and that I don't like being alone" ? Or it's at least the way he words it and fails to follow it up with other insights. He seems to be so survival-oriented and identified with his ego that when he experiences transpersonal truth, he rejects it outright, rather than seeing it as a possible next level, e.g. "I might not be ready for the ultimate truth right now, as I'm too identified with my human self, but I'll be working towards that". That is the difference between a spiritual person and a non-spiritual person. As Charlie points out, that reaction might be due to his trauma and lack of love in his childhood. He is so driven by lack that he can't see past that mode of being. Maybe if he didn't take 10.5g his first time and had progressively eased himself into it, maybe it would've been different, but I'm not so sure about that.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Danioover9000]

@Carl-Richard

22 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Destiny's insights on psychedelics are so lame ? "I learned that truth is not always good, and that I don't like being alone" ? Or it's at least the way he words it and fails to follow it up with other insights. He seems to be so survival-oriented and identified with his ego that when he experiences transpersonal truth, he rejects it outright, rather than seeing it as a possible next level, e.g. "I might not be ready for the ultimate truth right now, as I'm too identified with my human self, but I'll be working towards that". That is the difference between a spiritual person and a non-spiritual person. As Charlie points out, that reaction might be due to his trauma and lack of love in his childhood. He is so driven by lack that he can't see past that mode of being. Maybe if he didn't take 10.5g his first time and had progressively eased himself into it, maybe it would've been different, but I'm not so sure about that.

   This goes to show that upbringing in whatever family unit, and environment, and early childhood trauma is far more powerful than we thought. Talk therapy, at least to me, on average may unwire those traumas but in years if not close to decades, sometimes some will never transcend and resolve their specific traumas. I guess, taking into account the developmental factors in regards to Destiny, it's likely he'll never experience actually TRUTH or CONSCIOUSNESS like @Leo Gura. Environment and the systems that input and output people or things are far more important, and correcting parts of a system that is faulty, that imparts trauma to some, is pretty important. Same for Charisma guy.

   Looking forward to when psychedelics and therapy become more mainstream and normalized.

[Danioover9000]

@Carl-Richard  Another interesting part is when Destiny explains the capitalist part, he emphasizes the outcome results orientation, whilst devaluing process oriented thinking. I tend to do both and sometimes view problems and systems in a process oriented way, so I don't know why he'd be against such a way of thinking? Maybe in context to the progressives/socialists in these online bubbles in regards to their extreme takes on Mr. Beast's eye charity?

   I mean, Destiny talks about how most people should care for the outcome view over process view, and not value for the sake of the tool itself. To me it's a reductionist take rather than a holistic one. A better explanation of this dynamic is in this website: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwib3dHIq_z8AhXbMMAKHQP0CwcQFnoECBAQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fconsilienceproject.org%2Ftechnology-is-not-values-neutral%2F&usg=AOvVaw2DKqzDUEzzAeoDs-NhqY0y

[Carl-Richard]

@Danioover9000 I think he was very specifically talking about simple political interventions like taxes, which is kinda dumb to be absolutistic about. You probably wouldn't feel fundamentally violated if we replaced taxes with some other alternative. It would be a different story e.g. when it comes to something like democracy, which is more complex. It doesn't quite work as well then to say "wouldn't you be fine with a totalitatian state if everybody was happy, healthy and fed?" And sure, properly balancing things like process and results is what wisdom is about. This is a bit of a jump, but life itself is a process to be enjoyed. If you're always looking for some result, you'll never be happy.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[zurew]

21 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

 Another interesting part is when Destiny explains the capitalist part, he emphasizes the outcome results orientation, whilst devaluing process oriented thinking.

Processes are valuable for two main things ( 1. they can represent certain values[in the case of democracy -  the individual freedom - to have a say in how the government is run] 2. and they can generate results/solve problems), if there is a process that can do those two parts better, then there is no reason to be attached to the previous or any other process . 

That being said, often times one can't really distinguish between those two, because it could be argued, that the consequence/result of using a process such as democracy, is that you generate or give rise to some amount of individual freedom.

So taking this thought process, Destiny isn't attached to the inherent process of taxing people, because taxation is also used to create/generate certain results, and if those results/goals could be achieved by a different process (that can also represent the same moral values as taxation), then why should he stay attached to taxation as a process?

Edited February 5, 2023 by zurew