How do I use Actualized.org?

[UpperMaster]

Hey there, I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the stuff Leo's been teaching. I know he says not to take everything as gospel or dogma, but some parts feel like they're being presented in that way. It feels as though I must believe Leo as he is of higher consciousness than me.

Take the topic of integrity for example, I've had different experiences and my understanding of integrity doesn't quite align with Leo's. Although he doesn't address my doubts, I am inclined to believe whatever Leo says simply on the premise that he probably got it figured out more than me. 

I then realized after revisiting some of Leos videos that I almost always misunderstand a part of what he saying. This really reminded me of the importance of thinking arguments through. However, when I do so, I often reach different conclusions from Leo, leaving me uncertain if I should trust my own conclusions based on my experiences or Leo's, who has a deeper understanding of the topic.

I am faced with a dilemma on how to approach the material from actualized.org, uncertain if I should initially believe Leo's content and then work to understand it, or form my own conclusions, which may be incorrect due to my limited experience.

[OBEler]

@UpperMaster I would take psychedelics. Without psychedelics you will have an extra hard time to understand the teachings. 

I know it sounds like a magic shortcut but if I had not taken them, I definitively would understand less. 

You need a lot of practical experience with psychedelics. 

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by OBEler

[Thought Art]

Trust your own conclusions, see what results they bring.

[UpperMaster]

@OBEler I a still in high-school, I can't be taking that shit now ahaha. Probably later on though.

[UpperMaster]

5 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Trust your own conclusions, see what results they bring.

Why do you say that? Do you disagree with anything Leo says? 

[ZGROPIUS]

13 minutes ago, UpperMaster said:

I am faced with a dilemma on how to approach the material from actualized.org, uncertain if I should initially believe Leo's content and then work to understand it, or form my own conclusions, which may be incorrect due to my limited experience.

If you are honest enough or your perspective starts to open. No matter how much material you've studied. You've always felt that you are exploring one of the perspectives, and have no absolute answer. Here is no "I take one of these choices/understandings" and I'm done to absolute and can not move or go anywhere else.

Leo's 「Epistemology」theme on YT are perfect for this situation. This teacher opened your mind and you still perceive completely subjectivity, free from the feeling of dogma, fear and commitment.

[UpperMaster]

@ZGROPIUS What do you mean, like I should rather be just someone exploring perspectives rather than trying to find conclusions?

[ZGROPIUS]

do you know where to find conclusions?

[Alex_R]

You need to do at least 10 psychedelic trips in order to grasp where this thing goes

[UpperMaster]

@ZGROPIUS No I don't, the problem is I need to have some conclusions in order to function in life.

 

[UpperMaster]

9 minutes ago, Alex_R said:

You need to do at least 10 psychedelic trips in order to grasp where this thing goes

What about until then?

[ZGROPIUS]

@UpperMaster Ooh.... you might need to start another topic to describe the problem you are facing specifically in life.

[OBEler]

@UpperMaster aah I see then later, . 

You are young and found self actualization/spirituality. You are damn Lucky if you start in that age. 

The older you get the harder it will be

[Thought Art]

@UpperMaster It doesn’t matter what I think. I think most of Leo’s principles and insights are pretty powerful. But, you also have to be thinking for yourself. So, it’s good to listen, you’ll have more requisite variety with regards ti theory. Ideas will change over time, what is useless today maybe useful tomorrow. It’s unlikely people will agree with him on everything because we all have different life experiences, tastes, levels of development etc. 
 

It’s a good sign when you don’t agree with everything a teacher says 

[UpperMaster]

@Thought Art Thanks! 

The stage that I am at I'll have a set of beliefs and conclusions. This makes sense. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by UpperMaster

[AsafTheMagniv]

3 hours ago, Thought Art said:

Trust your own conclusions, see what results they bring.

Like Thought Art said I would recommend you to trust your own conclusions if you can really prove that things are another way than Leo said.
if they are wrong it is very likely that in the future you will disprove them because in the end all paths of truth come to the same conclusion.

if you want to really improve I would recommend you to watch spiral dynamics videos, it can be very helpful to know what to strive towards and at what level you are at.

if you have doubts contemplate about them, if you can't come to a conclusion on the same day it's fine just remember to contemplate about them from time to time until your doubt is gone - in the path of spirituality confusion is a common feeling, it also means that you understand that you don't understand and that's already a big step in understanding the doubt that you have.

every video from Leo, every knowledge you hear or gain in any way before you believe it prove if it's really true or false - in that way you can gain insights that you yourself made, just remember to question them too.

Edited January 31, 2023 by AsafTheMagniv
elaborating on how to contemplate

[WelcometoReality]

@UpperMaster If you just blindly believe what Leo is saying it would be a very shallow understanding. Then all you could do is just parrot what he's saying but it won't really have an impact in you own life.

If you instead try to understand what he is saying and see where it fits in your own belief system. Work on all the question marks you have about it. Then it will be more integrated. You won't just believe his words but understand what he's saying. Maybe you won't agree fully or maybe you will but he will not have any authority over you.

An even deeper understanding is connecting it to your direct experience. This is highly important when doing spiritual work. When someone is saying anything spiritual then you need to investigate into your own experience and see whether it fits. It won't be true to you until ypu realize it for yourself.

 

[UpperMaster]

9 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

An even deeper understanding is connecting it to your direct experience. This is highly important when doing spiritual work. When someone is saying anything spiritual then you need to investigate into your own experience and see whether it fits. It won't be true to you until ypu realize it for yourself.

 

 

Then it almost seems like there is no truth whatsoever though no? Like in science its super easy because we all have pretty much the same experience of the physical world (atleast when we describe it), therefore its easier to fundamentally say this is right or wrong. In spirituality it seems to be different, its almost as if you can never know if your right. 

Edited January 31, 2023 by UpperMaster

[WelcometoReality]

1 hour ago, UpperMaster said:

Then it almost seems like there is no truth whatsoever though no? 

Exactly. ? It's subjective.

1 hour ago, UpperMaster said:

In spirituality it seems to be different, its almost as if you can never know if your right. 

Truth tend to slip through your fingers when you try to explain it. What's true for you right in this moment? You investigate into it. You see directly and all explanations about it is second hand knowledge. ?

[Grateful Dead]

Take Leo for inspiration, he should make you extremely curious.  Don't believe anything other people tell you.  Think for yourself, you should be your own authority figure.