My issue with porn and masturbation

[Something Funny]

I've noticed that it has become popular to dismiss this problem, that clearly a lot of people are struggling with as some bullshit, so I wanted to make a post about it.

Even Leo just laughs about it and has a "I never had a problem with it so it can't be a problem" attitude. But this is just not the case, people are different. Some people can drink alocohol their whole lives in moderation and be totally healthy and functioning humans, while some become alcoholics and ruin their life. Even tolerance of negative health effect of drinking alcohol is probably different among different people.

Disclaimer

To clarify, I am not saying that masturbation, or even porn is inherently evil. If you have a healthy relationship with it then fine, good for you. But it's not the case for everyone.

Although I still think that it's silly to assume that you can just watch porn your whole life and that it will have no effect on your mind whatsoever. Leo is big on reprogramming the subconscious mind with affirmations, visualizations, and such. Well, you can also reprogram your mind in a negative way through the posts you read on social media, music you are listening, ads you are watching, people you are hanging out with, and yes, porn.

I am also not saying that you will become a superman buy doing nofap for 90 days. But I think it's safe to say that most men will feel better and more energetic/lively if they retain their semen for a week or two. I've clearly noticed positive effects in my personal experience and as Leo says "experience is king".

The issue I have with porn

1) Insecurities and negative beliefs. Porn has definitely imprinted quite a few insecurities and negative beliefs into my mind:

- about my penis size

- about what's considered attractive and desirable

- about women

- about what is considered "cool" and who I need to be

Now I will have to spend quite a bit of time unwiring all that crap.

2) For me porn got progressively more and more perverted. I didn't start masturbating to porn at all. The first time I masturbated I masturbated to Naruto fan fiction, it wasn't even that erotic and the hottest moment there was character kissing. I didn't even know what masturbation was at that time, it just kind of happened naturally, lol.

But of course it didn't stay this way forever. Over the years it had to escalate to more and more extreme stuff to keep feeling pleasurable to me. It has gotten to a point of me watching porn that honestly disgusts me in my "sober state". It affects my mind very negatively and makes me depressed and nihilistic. And whenever I try to get back to watching more vanilla porn it always escalates back because it's never enough.

3) Whenever I watch porn I do genuinely feel like shit. My productivity always drops and I turn on a vegetable mod. All I am interested in those time is watching porn, scrolling reddit, watching tv shows, and binge eating. I feel like it turns me into a retarded animal.

Solution

No, I don't think that total abstinence is a legitimate solution for most people. But I think that reducing masturbation to a few times a week, or whatever schedule fits the best to you personally, and doing it consciously, without any porn can be.

This sounds like a good, healthy approach.

Also, as a side note regarding semen retention, I think it's absolutely fucked up that in our modern culture not jerking off for 14 days is considered somehow very hard and extreme. How can you claim to have any kind of self-control and discipline if you can't deal with some sexual urges here and there? This is honestly the main reason why I think doing classical nofap challenge can be beneficial. Not because it will grant you some magical super powers but because you will at least now that you are the master of your mind and emotions, instead of being their slave. It develops discipline that can then be used in every area of life.

 

[Something Funny]

Also, modern stage orange culture of instant gratification and cheapening of sex is so lame to be honest. I would like to live my life in a more idealistic and romantic way.

[NoSelfSelf]

Bottom line is you are the problem from not consuming porn responsibly like anything else...

[Something Funny]

@NoSelfSelf well yeah. But that's not what I am talking about.

I made this post because the very fact that someone can have an issue with porn and masturbation is often being ridiculed on this forum.

"You quit porn because you think it was ruining your life? Lol, you are just bulshitting yourself. Why don't you also join nowater.com, haha"

[Osaid]

1 minute ago, Something Funny said:

I made this post because the very fact that someone can have an issue with porn and masturbation is often being ridiculed on this forum.

This is a strawman of what was being ridiculed. A lot of these people are projecting negative ideas onto masturbation and making absolutist statements like "all masturbation is addiction" and "masturbation is bad". They are steeped in dogma. They aren't as nuanced as you are in your post. That is what was being ridiculed.

 

 

 

[NoSelfSelf]

@Something Funny Yeah you are bullshiting yourself ,because you dont make anything a problem because you are the problem, same thing also you trying to not masturbate thinking you are growing you really not, its for self development noobies starting out..it wont turn you into a man or something...nobody is forsing you to do it and calling it an addiction is bs, because you are choosing to spent all that time on it...

Edited January 31, 2023 by NoSelfSelf

[Something Funny]

30 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Something Funny Yeah you are bullshiting yourself ,because you dont make anything a problem because you are the problem, same thing also you trying to not masturbate thinking you are growing you really not, its for self development noobies starting out..it wont turn you into a man or something...nobody is forsing you to do it and calling it an addiction is bs, because you are choosing to spent all that time on it...

@Osaid sorry, what were you saying?

[Something Funny]

@NoSelfSelf I wonder if you would say the same if this was a post about alcohol, because technically it applies to it as well. And look how you have completely ignored my main arguments and focused on masturbation instead, even though I've made it clear that I think a complete abstinence is not a healthy solution for most people.

It's also funny how you are saying that I should be taking responsiblity isntead of whining about it and yet this is exactly what I am doing, I am taking responsibility and try to find a solution that works for me, and you are criticizing me for it...

Edited January 31, 2023 by Something Funny

[Something Funny]

@Michael Jackson I am not here to make statements about other people like that. He sounds like a nice person. Like I said if Leo or someone else says that they are watching porn and it's totally fine with it, then fine. You do you, I don't care. But it's not nice to make fun of other people who are struggling with this issue for real, just because you haven't experienced it yourself.

@Osaid I agree, some of the nofap guys are really ideological about it. But as you can see above, even when I make a post sharing my personal struggles, I get the "you are just bullshitting yourself" advise.

I imagine that if I've made a post about how I am struggling with alcohol and don't seem to be able to have a healthy relationship with it, I wouldn't get this type of response.

Or heck, even coffee. If I made a post saying how I am addictted to caffeine and how it messes up my health, I still wouldn't get the "you are just bulshitting yourself, take some responsibility bro" advise.

 

[LastThursday]

@Something Funny definitely masturbation has to be separated from watching porn. 

I would say the need to masturbate in males reaches a peak in the late teens or early twenties, then tapers off after that. It's completely natural and normal to want to masturbate and enjoy the pleasure of it. In that sense it may be psychologically detrimental to not masturbate for some young males. I would completely disagree that retaining semen improves energy levels. There may be a temporary effect straight after ejaculation, but it's not long lasting. There are no long term biological effects whether you masturbate or not, whether you ejaculate or not.

The two potential problems with porn are: moral and psychological.

The moral aspect, includes that the act of sex and naked bodies are somewhat taboo (and partly driven by religious dogma) and so watching it, is somehow "wrong" or "sinful" or "naughty" and basically bad for you. There is also the potential for the people appearing in porn, being under age or exploited in some way, depending on what material you're watching (and not being able to know what the situation is before clicking on a video). If there was a solid reason for not watching porn, it would be this. But I would say that sites like PornHub are regulated around exploitation.

The psychological aspect can be overblown in my opinion. We're all used to watching films in which people are routinely shot and murdered, even in very mainstream stuff. But most of us can discern that a film is not real life, and we can put it in a box and not let it affect our everyday actions or thoughts. It's no different from porn: we know it's fake and staged, and that the bodies are enhanced, and it's just there to create maximum pleasure in us. Can it warp our view of reality? I'd say yes, but only as much as advertising and social media does, and only if we allow it to. Some people will be more affected than others.

So the only part left is addiction. Addiction is only detrimental if it disrupts normal everyday functioning. Watching porn takes time, and the more addicted you are the more time it takes up. If this gets in the way of other more beneficial activities then it's bad. Watching porn is empty calories, other than short-lived pleasure, there is no benefit from it. You can masturbate without it.

Edited January 31, 2023 by LastThursday

[Leo Gura]

18 hours ago, Something Funny said:

Even Leo just laughs about it and has a "I never had a problem with it so it can't be a problem" attitude.

I never said it can't be a problem.

Obviously sex addiction is a thing, for some people.

What I push back on is people who have such problems then demonizing porn and masturbation itself, and even climaxing.

This would be like a fat person demonzing food, while us skinny folk are enjoying our food in proper moderation.

The problem is not the porn, it's that your lack of self-control.

Edited January 31, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Something Funny]

26 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

I would completely disagree that retaining semen improves energy levels. There may be a temporary effect straight after ejaculation, but it's not long lasting. There are no long term biological effects whether you masturbate or not, whether you ejaculate or not.

I don't know if it's biological or pshychological, or if it's just a placebo effect, but after I don't watch porn and as a result, don't masturbate for a few days I feel noticably more clearminded, positive, eager to work on my life, etc. The same can be said about something like affirmations, it doesn't mean that they are useless. Maybe if I could separate porn and masturbation completely I would notice the same effects, idk. The issue for me is that in 90% of cases one thing leads to another.

 

30 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

The psychological aspect can be overblown in my opinion. We're all used to watching films in which people are routinely shot and murdered, even in very mainstream stuff. But most of us can discern that a film is not real life, and we can put it in a box and not let it affect our everyday actions or thoughts. It's no different from porn: we know it's fake and staged, and that the bodies are enhanced, and it's just there to create maximum pleasure in us. Can it warp our view of reality? I'd say yes, but only as much as advertising and social media does, and only if we allow it to. Some people will be more affected than others.

Depends on what kind of porn you are watching. As I've mentioned in my original post the kinds of porn I watch have gradually changed over years from the most innocent, vanilla stuff in the beginning to much more extreme things. I am especially bothered when I watch all kind of degrading and humiliating porn. It's really addictive and stimulating because it plays on my insecurities, and I feel like it really messes my mind up. I feel awful mentally after watching it and in my "sober" state am completely turned of by it. I've even tried watching some more "conscious" kind of porn videos, but it's never enough and aways escalates back. So I think that for me the best solution it to cut it out of my life completely.

@Leo Gura okay, sorry, I agree that I've overreacted a bit.

 

[Someone here]

@Something Funny get a girlfriend.  That's the ONLY long term solution. Its impossible to cut porn and masturbation from your life as long as you are single. 

And lemme tell ya somethin'..real sex with a real attractive girl is way beyond an other worldly experience than this fake shit called porn . 

Are you struggling with finding a girlfriend? 

Let's Talk about...

[Something Funny]

2 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Something Funny get a girlfriend.  That's the ONLY long term solution. Its impossible to cut porn and masturbation from your life as long as you are single.

Thanks, but I refuse to adopt the mindset of "I need another person to live a healthy and happy life". This is such a defeatist attitude. I am going to cur porn out of my life while single. And I didn't says that I will stop masturbating forever. I am just going to work on building amore healthy relationship with it.

5 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Are you struggling with finding a girlfriend? 

I will get a girlfriend when it's time for me to get a girlfriend.

[mr_engineer]

@NoSelfSelf I think OP is talking about porn more like a widespread systemic social issue than an individual issue. Individuals, of course, can be responsible with it. But, the reality is that most people aren't. 

29 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This would be like a fat person demonzing food,

More like a fat person demonizing junk food. Yes, they're still responsible for their indiscriminate consumption of it. But, there is reason to demonize junk food in and of itself. And, I think, same with porn. 

[Someone here]

2 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

Thanks, but I refuse to adopt the mindset of "I need another person to live a healthy and happy life". This is such a defeatist attitude. I am going to cur porn out of my life while single. And I didn't says that I will stop masturbating forever. I am just going to work on building amore healthy relationship with it.

As you you wish.  But you asked for a solution that actually fucking works.

Get a real partner, someone you can hug and hold, a shoulder to cry on, real lips to kiss, because OH MY GOD that is not replaceable! Trust me!!! You want it! We all do! We all need it!

Dump the porn and get a real score!

5 minutes ago, Something Funny said:

And I didn't says that I will stop masturbating forever. I am just going to work on building amore healthy relationship with it.

Masturbation leads to porn and porn leads to Masturbation. 

If you are often watching porn, it´s draining your body of those sex hormones. That means you don´t get any aching wish for the real thing to come along. You´re stuck in the fantasy land.

[Something Funny]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

As you you wish.  But you asked for a solution that actually fucking works.

I didn't ask for anything and don't worry, I've got it. But thanks for your concern.

[LastThursday]

1 hour ago, Something Funny said:

I am especially bothered when I watch all kind of degrading and humiliating porn.

This is just your moral side piping up, and it's probably worth listening to for your own peace of mind, if not anything else. Like I said, porn is staged and you know this, you know it isn't real life. You're escalating because it's easy to do so, and you've become bored of the vanilla stuff. The reason you've become bored of the vanilla stuff, is well, because it is actually boring. It's the same reason some people prefer horror films to romcoms.

[flowboy]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

But you asked for a solution that actually fucking works.

No he didn't.

Notice how you're talking to your former self more than to OP (so much so that it blurs your perception of what he's actually saying)

 

[Someone here]

27 minutes ago, flowboy said:

No he didn't.

Notice how you're talking to your former self more than to OP (so much so that it blurs your perception of what he's actually saying)

 

@Something Funny then what do you want ?

This  may seem harsh but seriously this is what is coming to my mind right  now.

First things first. It must be dealt with seriously. Like Get a life dude..!!
Engage yourself in something else. There must be something which fascinates you, which makes you interested. Do it.
This will even help with the porn thing.
As for "I will get a  girlfriend when it's time" part, you are actually comparing yourself to people who have girlfriends. Stop that.
Your whole life is in front of you and you are losing self esteem because of something like this. 

My Advice: Making a girlfriend should be the focus. Talk to girls. Do not see them as your "potential girlfriends". This will worsen that SHY thing and you will never be able to talk to the opposite sex freely.

Focus on that for now. SELF ESTEEM and CONFIDENCE are really important for that.

P.S. I am 26 never had a girlfriend until few months ago .and I'm so happy and confident. 

I don't even want this porn crap in my life anymore .

Edited January 31, 2023 by Someone here