Can you be spiritual and eat meat?

[Kimka]

21 hours ago, Michael569 said:

sounds like a pretty shitty spiritual retreat if they give you sas for your dietary choices. Aren't those places supposed to be completely judgement free? 

 

In terms of the diet conundrum, plant-based diets do not need to cause problems when carefully planned, but they might if they are not approached strategically. Despite knowing about potential pitfalls, many people do not supplement, nor do they compensate by eating specific foods in abundance. 

You might benefit from evaluating the whole diet by tracking your intake for a few days in cronometer.com and see if any major deficiencies come up. Once they do, you can quickly look up foods that complement the missing nutrients or supplement for a short period of time. 

Have you had any blood tests? 

I have been talking to many girls from these yogic/spiritual communities, and while they mean well, many of them approach this lifestyle very naively, and in 20 years many of them will become osteopenic, and anaemic due to all the fasting, juicing, hypocaloric diets and lack of weight-bearing physical activities.. If you tracked the average ferritin levels in those groups, it would probably be below 40 on average.  

Whether you choose to include animal products or not should ONLY be your choice. No groups should shame you for it. Ethical choices should be individual and not peer-pressured. 

Yes I agree. It’s supposed to be a space free of judgement and I think to be spiritually developed is to include all kinds of people. But I won’t be going back there anymore. 
 

I have done stupid shit like that also while being plant based, the juicing, detoxing etc. I also have a history of eating disorders in my teens. But when I got older I’ve focused on eating high quality food and minimal processed food, so I want to avoid soy, wheat, oils etc. I feel better eating animal products, it’s feels like I’m getting more calories and nutrients, I’ve been supplementing with some organ meats and I feel great on it. But I was curious about what you guys think if you become less conscious just because you eat meat. But I don’t think so since I actually feel better.

[Kimka]

3 hours ago, Salvijus said:

Also yogis invest huge amount of time and energy on their body to rise it to the next level of performance altogether. For them vegetarian diet is very good bc it supports their sadhana. Some of these yogis in india eat only few times a month and are fine. But it takes decades of preparation of work upon the body to do that. 

So everything u know about yogic lifestyle u can throw it away if you're not a yogi. It applies only to yogis who follow that discipline and do other practices to support the system. They get their nourshiment in other ways so they can afford to eat only leaves and grass and be healthy. But a normal person shouldn't try to emulate them. 

That’s really interesting actually. But I dont have that kind of knowledge and I don’t really strive to become a yogi but I still think it’s really cool that it’s possible for people: thank you??

[Kimka]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I've been eating mostly meat for the last two years. My trips are deeper than ever.

Yey this makes me excited for my upcoming trips!!

[Kimka]

1 hour ago, Jannes said:

 

edit: Thats the 3-years-quiet-vegan-just-got-rejected-by-a-hot-girl-I-have-feelings-for-energy. REEEEE!! Love you @Michael569

 

Lol love this

[Sincerity]

22 minutes ago, Kimka said:

I actually find that I feel better eating red meat. I think it’s because of my condition and maybe having some deficiencies. I had no period, irregular ovulation, super bad PMS(I’m generally a very calm person and I’ve never had this problem before and it affected my relationship ofc) and everything has improved for me. 

I also live on the countryside so I’ve access to good quality meat, eggs, raw dairy from local farmers which I want to support. I’ve met the cows and chickens also to see how their living conditions are because I still want to cause as little suffering as possible. But I like to eat high quality food, I cook and bake mostly from scratch because I really enjoy it, it’s like a hobby for me. I want to avoid processed foods and oils and I had a hard time getting enough calories and/or nutrients just eating fruit and veggies. Felt like I had to eat all day:(

I took some lsd like a month after I started to eat animal products and I realized that I don’t feel bad about it. I tend to be a perfectionist and highly moral in my behavior, so sometimes I need to remind myself that morality like you said is really more of a wet fantasy I have in my mind 

Sounds like the answer is clear then.  You go, girl.

Don't fall for other people's beliefs and moralizing. Follow what's true to You.

[Yog]

@Tudo I am just comparing the end of one type of life form to another, without placing pain or suffering in the mix, for the reason them being influenced too much by our own bias of avoiding pain and suffering. We know it in ourselves, so we see it in the world, I don't mean that it's pure projection, I mean we are able to see it because we know it. It means, yes, it is there, in other human beings and in some other life forms.

But we can not accept it, if we were to, then we would accept it in "others".  That is just unacceptable for your ego.

Anyway, I do not see why put one type of a life-form over another, nor do I like the ethics of prioritizing beings based on closeness/similarity to ourselves, even if it's based on compassion. I like more to marvel at the ways the cycle of life works in nature. But don't get me wrong, I like everyone else do have the same bias, I am against factory farming and for reducing other needless forms of suffering that we create, but also I don't like buying into my own BS, on both fronts of this talk.

[Jannes]

56 minutes ago, Yog said:

@Tudo I am just comparing the end of one type of life form to another, without placing pain or suffering in the mix, for the reason them being influenced too much by our own bias of avoiding pain and suffering. We know it in ourselves, so we see it in the world, I don't mean that it's pure projection, I mean we are able to see it because we know it. It means, yes, it is there, in other human beings and in some other life forms.

But we can not accept it, if we were to, then we would accept it in "others".  That is just unacceptable for your ego.

Why? Most people in society act in a way that they try to avoid hurting others so they accept others pain and suffering and go about avoiding it. 

56 minutes ago, Yog said:

Anyway, I do not see why put one type of a life-form over another, nor do I like the ethics of prioritizing beings based on closeness/similarity to ourselves, even if it's based on compassion.

You gotta eat something so you gotta choose.

56 minutes ago, Yog said:

I like more to marvel at the ways the cycle of life works in nature.

We are part of nature. Evolution is part of nature. Developing a self of morality which has compassion towards other species is part of nature. If you value being as primitive as possible then go ahead.

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, bazera said:

@Leo Gura What about your manual practice results? If you have any.

Not any worse.

[Nathan]

Call me out for being closed minded and making sweeping statements but the way I see it.. All of the mystical experiences reality has to offer amount to little more than thrilling distractions if they don't dent your apathy towards the plight of your brothers and sisters. Love is the path and mercy is the recognition of unity. 

[Jannes]

1 hour ago, Michael569 said:

I get what you're saying and in the ultimate perspective, you are right. Animal abuse is indeed no different to human abuse once we put all biases and norms aside. 

Anyone consuming animal products is consciously or subconsciously choosing to take on board the ethical consequences of that. Once people are okay with that, I think there isn't anything else to be said on the matter. Because what else are we going to do, jail people for eating meat? You can spread awareness but you cannot enforce it on global level through use of force, you could say that in itself would be highly unethical (from the perspective of current moral guidelines, not from the absolute perspective) 

Useless animal cruelty is forbidden. So it’s not like you can just buy a pet and then torture it legally. That’s why most of society is developed enough to see it as wrong. If society develops further we could illegalize eating meat for sure.

1 hour ago, Michael569 said:

I don't think it will ever be any different. Whether that is morally right is one thing and whether what you describe is an utopia is another thing. 

I also thing, realistically, we can compensate for loss of karma (or call it whatever you want) in other areas of life E.g. choosing to consume some animal produce but at the same time working as a volunteer in animal conservation centre in Asia or working on an ethical farm....something like that. Or you could simply choose not to care

Depending on who you talk to, it would or would not be acceptable. 

I agree with you theoretically but practically it doesn’t work. When I switched from veganism to vegetarianism I spent a bit of money to third world countries every time I bought some milk products or eggs. Over time I got used to buying animal products again and lost the interest in spending that extra money. I stopped being aware of some of the animal cruelty once I switched from veganism to vegetarianism because it would interfere with my self worth.

 

[Salvijus]

5 hours ago, Jannes said:

 But that doenst justify anything. 

Actually you can justify whatever you want in this cosmos. You just need a sharp enough intelect for that ? 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

14 minutes ago, Jannes said:

If society develops further we could illegalize eating meat for sure

Bro, what am i going feed my dog with then? ? 

[Jannes]

16 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Actually you can justify whatever you want in this cosmos. You just need a sharp enough intelect for that ? 

Exactly lol.

 

10 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Bro, what am i going feed my dog with then? ? 

Dogs are actually omnivores because we fed them veggies for so long. So veggie dog food works. If that breaks your heart then I would go for organs because that’s often wasted. 
Also it’s about human nutrition. How we feed animals would be another ethical discussion. 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Jannes

[Kimka]

2 hours ago, Jannes said:

 

 

Dogs are actually omnivores because we fed them veggies for so long. So veggie dog food works. If that breaks your heart then I would go for organs because that’s often wasted. 
Also it’s about human nutrition. How we feed animals would be another ethical discussion. 

I tried to give my dogs vegetarian dog food and they all had Such bad diarrhea, shitting +5 times a day and drank so much water:( now they eat meat, fish, organs and I throw in some vegetables, fruits and eggs sometimes. 

[Basman]

Quote

I've been eating mostly meat for the last two years. My trips are deeper than ever.

Why do you believe that eating meat makes you trip deeper? What's the connection?

[Basman]

I think a lot of the praising of vegetarianism in western spiritual circles is in part due to moral development on the one hand but also because they are historically influenced by Buddhism and Hinduism a lot. In those religions, vegetarianism is emphasized as a principle. Vegetarianism is part of new-age culture at this point.

As to whether or not its "un-spiritual" to eat meat, I don't think so. Spirituality doesn't have a strict definition and means different things to different people. It's a matter of perspective. To some, eating meat is un-spiritual but they can only really speak for themselves IMO.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Basman

[Jannes]

On 3.2.2023 at 11:45 PM, Basman said:

Why do you believe that eating meat makes you trip deeper? What's the connection?

He didn’t say his trips are deeper because of the meat consumption, he says his trips are deeper and he eats meat. Maybe his trips could be even deeper without meat consumption or maybe meat consumption enhanced the depth of his trips or maybe meat consumption doesn’t have anything to do with the depth of his trips. 
It makes sense that his trips become deeper over time because trips build on top of each other. 

Edited February 7, 2023 by Jannes

[ZenAlex]

Vegan for 7 years here. 

I don't know exactly what you ate on your vegan/vege diet so I cannot comment.

Different people can react differently to the same diet.

I don't know if it was your specific food choices that contributed towards this.

This is why I've been getting blood tests every so often as a vegan, and I have no deficiencies. 

Did you go raw vegan or something?

[Leo Gura]

On 2/3/2023 at 2:45 PM, Basman said:

Why do you believe that eating meat makes you trip deeper? What's the connection?

It's irrelevant.

[aurum]

@Kimka

I was vegan for all the typical reasons. Lasted about two years. Eventually got back on meat because it seemed healthier for me.

Since getting eating meat again, I feel like my consciousness and spiritual understanding has done nothing but skyrocket.

Granted, I don’t think eating CAUSED these improvements per say. I was also making big improvements as a vegan. Rather it just honestly seems to not matter.

It seems the bottleneck is not specifically what you eat, but whether you are healthy. Health is the key. And there’s nothing I’ve seen nutritionally that has convinced me that meat is inherently unhealthy as long as you don’t overdo it and eat high quality meat.

Ethics is a different question. We could say that if someone is so selfish that they are unable to put aside their human biases and extend their circle of concern to animals, that would indicate a lack of development. And so I see veganism as a response to stage Orange industrial food practices that were heavily biased towards human survival and lacked empathy. These practices required humans to objectify animals in order to succeed.