Can you be spiritual and eat meat?

[Kimka]

I’ve experimented a lot with diets during my life. I was a vegetarian for 12 years(or really vegetarian 6 years, then vegan for 4 years then back to vegetarian for 2 years)

I stopped eating meat for ethical reasons. I started doing yoga at a young age and my teacher was vegetarian and explained about how it’s better for your health and “spiritual hygiene”. But after a couple of years I started to feel bad and had a lot of hormonal issues that I never had before. I talked to a fertility coach who explained that 90% of her clients with these types of issues ate a plant based diet. I was resistant at first because I’ve been eating this way for a long time, but It got so bad that I had to give it a chance. And my hormones are so much better, these issues are now gone.

what confuses me is that it seems people with higher consciousness(stage green or higher) eats a plant based diet. I’ve been to a psychedelic retreat multiple times and they also say it’s bad to eat meat before the trip because of the bad energy, and they’ve expressed disappointment for me for eating meat again. Is it impossible to be highly conscious and eating meat? Because it’s technically morally wrong? 
 

Excuse me if my English is not perfect. It’s not my native language

[Matt23]

1 hour ago, Kimka said:

they’ve expressed disappointment for me for eating meat again

This to me sounds like their biases and ideologies expressing themselves. 

There's nothing "wrong" with eating meat.  Especially if you feel better and healthier while doing it.  

I'd say, if you decide to eat meat, most people don't need to eat sooo much meat, especially red meats (but I don't know your body so you may need more, I dunno).  Also, just try to buy meats that are as ethically raised, organic, and local as possible.  Ideally, you'd be hunting your own meat, but that's oviously not feasible for most people.  

I've felt similarly, like just wrong somehow in eating meats.  I was veggitarian for many many year.  But have recently started eating meat occasionally.  Like maybe once a week or so I'll eat some meat, and usually just a little bit.  Just to make sure I'm getting enough nutrients that non-meat foods can't provide.  

Ultimately it comes down to how you feel about it (and any health concerns).  If you truly feel really negative eating meat, there are alternatives.  But I think the alternatives are probably more expensive in order to get all the nutrients and stuff you need.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Matt23

[Jannes]

5 minutes ago, Matt23 said:

There's nothing "wrong" with eating meat.  

You cause suffering. That isn’t objectively bad of course. 
 

 

[Jannes]

@Kimka Have you talked to a plant based nutritionist about it? There are many things one can do wrong on a plant based diet and plant based diets can be build very differently. You probably know because you were plant based for so long but just in case you overlooked that. 
 

You can of course be spiritual while eating meat. But if you eat meat because you don’t give a shit about the animals you are selfsish and become less conscious. If it’s your only option it’s justifiable. Leo eats a lot of meat because of his gut problems. 

[Sincerity]

1 hour ago, Kimka said:

I’ve been to a psychedelic retreat multiple times and they also say it’s bad to eat meat before the trip because of the bad energy, and they’ve expressed disappointment for me for eating meat again. Is it impossible to be highly conscious and eating meat? Because it’s technically morally wrong? 

I'll be blunt. They are stupid, You should not listen to them.

Yes, You can awaken VERY deeply while eating meat, and without a great diet in general. (It's still good to clean your diet of course)

It's only morally wrong if You think it is. Morality does not exist. This is Your Dream and You have the absolute freedom to do anything because You LOVE EVERYTHING, because You ARE EVERYTHING. You can literally do no evil. All "immorality" is Beautiful and You can look at it with a smile. So go eat meat if You want, or don't if You don't.

I personally don't eat meat very much.

[Michael569]

2 hours ago, Kimka said:

and they’ve expressed disappointment for me for eating meat again

sounds like a pretty shitty spiritual retreat if they give you sas for your dietary choices. Aren't those places supposed to be completely judgement free? 

 

In terms of the diet conundrum, plant-based diets do not need to cause problems when carefully planned, but they might if they are not approached strategically. Despite knowing about potential pitfalls, many people do not supplement, nor do they compensate by eating specific foods in abundance. 

You might benefit from evaluating the whole diet by tracking your intake for a few days in cronometer.com and see if any major deficiencies come up. Once they do, you can quickly look up foods that complement the missing nutrients or supplement for a short period of time. 

Have you had any blood tests? 

I have been talking to many girls from these yogic/spiritual communities, and while they mean well, many of them approach this lifestyle very naively, and in 20 years many of them will become osteopenic, and anaemic due to all the fasting, juicing, hypocaloric diets and lack of weight-bearing physical activities.. If you tracked the average ferritin levels in those groups, it would probably be below 40 on average.  

Whether you choose to include animal products or not should ONLY be your choice. No groups should shame you for it. Ethical choices should be individual and not peer-pressured. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Michael569

[Salvijus]

Jesus was eating meat.

I think that's should be a good enough answer for u

Also u can find many spiritual teachers that do, like echkart tolle and who knows who else. I know a few more that do and are very advanced.

It's a sensitive topic. Most people can't digest such ideas and will really shame u for it. Good luck with that ? 

Tcare

Edited January 31, 2023 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

Also yogis invest huge amount of time and energy on their body to rise it to the next level of performance altogether. For them vegetarian diet is very good bc it supports their sadhana. Some of these yogis in india eat only few times a month and are fine. But it takes decades of preparation of work upon the body to do that. 

So everything u know about yogic lifestyle u can throw it away if you're not a yogi. It applies only to yogis who follow that discipline and do other practices to support the system. They get their nourshiment in other ways so they can afford to eat only leaves and grass and be healthy. But a normal person shouldn't try to emulate them. 

[Jannes]

17 hours ago, Michael569 said:

Ethical choices should be individual and not peer-pressured. 

That’s like saying everyone should decide for themself if they want to rape people or not. No society has a duty to pressure people to not become criminals because that’s the only way the society survives and stays healthy. 
But the fact that vegetarians and vegans are the vast minority means that they can’t operate in that way. It only works if the majority has the same belief. So yes not pressuring anyone to follow the same veggie lifestyle is psychologically the most strategic thing to do. 

[Salvijus]

Here's a thought.

You're not the one who is eating meat anyway. It's the bacteria in your body that does it. And it's the bacteria that benefits from it also. lol. 

Disclaimer: i actually don't know if this is true ? 

[Jannes]

6 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Here's a thought.

You're not the one who is eating meat anyway. It's the bacteria in your body that does it. And it's the bacteria that benefits from it also. lol. 

Disclaimer: i actually don't know if this is true ? 

I think only 2% of our body is actually human or something. And I don’t belief in free will. But that doenst justify anything. 

[Michael569]

56 minutes ago, Jannes said:

That’s like saying everyone should decide for themself if they want to rape people or not.

strawman argument blown into ridiculous proportions

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Michael569

[Leo Gura]

I've been eating mostly meat for the last two years. My trips are deeper than ever.

Edited January 31, 2023 by Leo Gura

[bazera]

@Leo Gura What about your manual practice results? If you have any.

[Jannes]

1 hour ago, Michael569 said:

strawman argument blown into ridiculous proportions

You said ethical choices should be individual and not peer pressured. Ones eating habits as well as criminal activities all fall under the general category of ethical choices. My argument is that its a double standard to treat eating habits differently from other crimes. Its just that our society isnt developed enough to also include animals, at least not to the same extend. There is no reason to not put animal rights on the same ethical playing field as human rights other then that its not conductive to our survival. Which is why we tell ourselves that one is justifiable and the other one is terrible when there really isnt a difference. 

edit: Thats the 3-years-quiet-vegan-just-got-rejected-by-a-hot-girl-I-have-feelings-for-energy. REEEEE!! Love you @Michael569

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Jannes

[Yog]

@Jannes  Why are eating habits a crime? You will kill in order to eat, be it spinach or a chicken.

Why is a chicken more valuable than spinach ? Just because you can relate to it more, doesn't make it any different. Plants do not want to be eaten just as any other being on the planet aside from parasites.

[Tudo]

Eating meat= killing other beings for completely selfish reasons. I've been vegetarian for some years now, and my health is in a way better state than before.

[Tudo]

24 minutes ago, Yog said:

@Jannes  Why are eating habits a crime? You will kill in order to eat, be it spinach or a chicken.

Why is a chicken more valuable than spinach ? Just because you can relate to it more, doesn't make it any different. Plants do not want to be eaten just as any other being on the planet aside from parasites.

Animals can feel pain since most of them have sophisticated nervous systems. They can have emotions and feelings. Comparing animals to plants is so fucking stupid.

Scientific studies show that most animals have neurological substrates complex enough to support conscious experiences.

And you have the courage to compare sophisticated animals like pigs and cows to plants...

Edited January 31, 2023 by Tudo

[Kimka]

21 hours ago, Sincerity said:

I'll be blunt. They are stupid, You should not listen to them.

Yes, You can awaken VERY deeply while eating meat, and without a great diet in general. (It's still good to clean your diet of course)

It's only morally wrong if You think it is. Morality does not exist. This is Your Dream and You have the absolute freedom to do anything because You LOVE EVERYTHING, because You ARE EVERYTHING. You can literally do no evil. All "immorality" is Beautiful and You can look at it with a smile. So go eat meat if You want, or don't if You don't.

I personally don't eat meat very much.

Lol I agree so thank you:D I also recently found out that the guy secretly eats meat sometimes(they’re a couple) but won’t admit it because his wife is hardcore vegan. But I had that feeling that they are in this spiritual matrix you might call it, that you must dress, eat, be a certain way to be so called “spiritual” or “high conscious” 

 

 

I actually find that I feel better eating red meat. I think it’s because of my condition and maybe having some deficiencies. I had no period, irregular ovulation, super bad PMS(I’m generally a very calm person and I’ve never had this problem before and it affected my relationship ofc) and everything has improved for me. 

 

I also live on the countryside so I’ve access to good quality meat, eggs, raw dairy from local farmers which I want to support. I’ve met the cows and chickens also to see how their living conditions are because I still want to cause as little suffering as possible. But I like to eat high quality food, I cook and bake mostly from scratch because I really enjoy it, it’s like a hobby for me. I want to avoid processed foods and oils and I had a hard time getting enough calories and/or nutrients just eating fruit and veggies. Felt like I had to eat all day:(

I took some lsd like a month after I started to eat animal products and I realized that I don’t feel bad about it. I tend to be a perfectionist and highly moral in my behavior, so sometimes I need to remind myself that morality like you said is really more of a wet fantasy I have in my mind 

[Michael569]

1 hour ago, Jannes said:

There is no reason to not put animal rights on the same ethical playing field as human rights other then that its not conductive to our survival. Which is why we tell ourselves that one is justifiable and the other one is terrible when there really isnt a difference. 

I get what you're saying and in the ultimate perspective, you are right. Animal abuse is indeed no different to human abuse once we put all biases and norms aside. 

Anyone consuming animal products is consciously or subconsciously choosing to take on board the ethical consequences of that. Once people are okay with that, I think there isn't anything else to be said on the matter. Because what else are we going to do, jail people for eating meat? You can spread awareness but you cannot enforce it on global level through use of force, you could say that in itself would be highly unethical (from the perspective of current moral guidelines, not from the absolute perspective) 

1 hour ago, Jannes said:

ts just that our society isnt developed enough to also include animals, at least not to the same extend.

I don't think it will ever be any different. Whether that is morally right is one thing and whether what you describe is an utopia is another thing. 

I also thing, realistically, we can compensate for loss of karma (or call it whatever you want) in other areas of life E.g. choosing to consume some animal produce but at the same time working as a volunteer in animal conservation centre in Asia or working on an ethical farm....something like that. Or you could simply choose not to care

Depending on who you talk to, it would or would not be acceptable. 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Michael569
wording