Does 5-meo permanently raise consciousness?

[Mips]

During the conversation a few years ago between Martin Ball & @Leo Gura, Martin suggests it’s possible to get permanently enlightened via taking 5-meo periodically. 

Is this the case? Can it permanently raise consciousness into a much higher state and/or give higher realisations on a permanent basis, or is it mostly temporary?

i.e. it shows what’s possible but doesn’t create permanent shifts? All assuming there’s a regular meditation practice along side. 

The reason I’m asking is if I should bother. I’m an avid meditator and practice meditation and body awareness for maybe 6 hours a day.

I’ll possibly try 5-Meo a couple of times just to get a glimpse, but can it really be used as a tool for permanent enlightenment? And if not, what’s the point beyond showing us what’s possible with regular practice?

[Breakingthewall]

I think so. when a total liberation with 5 meo occurs, permanent changes are produced in the energetic structure of the person. In addition, the control of the ego is completely released and this allows an easier meditation afterwards, also permanently. Perhaps in your case, as a very serious meditator, this already happens with meditation.

What I don't know is if by doing it many times, hundreds, as Leo, each time it will continue to contribute something. I would say yes

[axiom]

If other molecularly similar psychedelics are anything to go by, there seems to be an increase in the baseline activity of the default mode network (ego / self). It is suppressed during the trip but elevated thereafter.

The person - having been dissolved entirely during the trip - comes back online and, as always, wants to claim ownership. This time though, it wants to claim ownership of something so novel and profound that the notion “I am God” can often solidify as a personal belief.

Edited January 30, 2023 by axiom

[bliss54]

This guy gives a good perspective:

 

[Mips]

2 hours ago, axiom said:

If other molecularly similar psychedelics are anything to go by, there seems to be an increase in the baseline activity of the default mode network (ego / self). It is suppressed during the trip but elevated thereafter.

The person - having been dissolved entirely during the trip - comes back online and, as always, wants to claim ownership. This time though, it wants to claim ownership of something so novel and profound that the notion “I am God” can often solidify as a personal belief.

This is *very* interesting - I’ve followed some of your posts before, I appreciate the input here. 
This is something I’m curious about & I might make a thread about it. This is something I found in a post on the 5-meo-dmt forums:

 

‘Many people become more egocentric and inflated after their "death" instead of the opposite... What do you think about that? James Oroc writes in his Tryptamine Palace:
The effect of LSD on the ego has been likened to the effect of hard exercise on muscle. LSD shreds the ego, but—just as a muscle rebuilds larger and stronger after being “torn down” by hard exercise—so too can the ego actually strengthen after years of repetitive high-dosage LSD use. This would explain a lot about the egomaniacal blowouts of the apparent leadership of the “psychedelic movement"...’

 

It seems to me that effect is present with Martin Ball and certain others. This is the exact opposite of where I want to be going..

 

 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Mips

[josemar]

26 minutes ago, Mips said:

It seems to me that effect is present with Martin Ball and certain others. This is the exact opposite of where I want to be going..

I wouldn't care to guess who the "certain others" are... but why do you think Martin has an inflated sense of ego? If anything, to me he has a no bullshit approach, cutting through most spiritually-sounding explanations for reality. I also have bilateral movements when vaping 5 Meo (not when snorted) , not to the extent he has them, but wouldn't classify this as ego...

2 hours ago, Mips said:

The reason I’m asking is if I should bother. I’m an avid meditator and practice meditation and body awareness for maybe 6 hours a day.

of course there's no 'shoulds', but there's no point planning your entire 5 Meo course of action before taking it at least once. Take it once, see how you get on... if you're lucky, there won't be a "you" to plan all this anymore...

[Breakingthewall]

42 minutes ago, Mips said:

This is *very* interesting - I’ve followed some of your posts before, I appreciate the input here. 
This is something I’m curious about & I might make a thread about it. This is something I found in a post on the 5-meo-dmt forums:

 

‘Many people become more egocentric and inflated after their "death" instead of the opposite... What do you think about that? James Oroc writes in his Tryptamine Palace:
The effect of LSD on the ego has been likened to the effect of hard exercise on muscle. LSD shreds the ego, but—just as a muscle rebuilds larger and stronger after being “torn down” by hard exercise—so too can the ego actually strengthen after years of repetitive high-dosage LSD use. This would explain a lot about the egomaniacal blowouts of the apparent leadership of the “psychedelic movement"...’

 

It seems to me that effect is present with Martin Ball and certain others. This is the exact opposite of where I want to be going..

 

 

I think that depends on your attitude and where you are trying to get to. If what you are looking for is to know things, the only thing you will achieve with psychedelics is to enlarge your ego. If what you are looking for is to free yourself and flow with existence, psychedelics will help to reveal what is blocking you, and they will also act as a solvent. I think the attitude of knowing things is very foolish. but there is something subtle here, the difference between knowing and understanding. understanding is essential if you want to free yourself from the chains that bind you

[Mips]

40 minutes ago, josemar said:

I wouldn't care to guess who the "certain others" are... but why do you think Martin has an inflated sense of ego? If anything, to me he has a no bullshit approach, cutting through most spiritually-sounding explanations for reality. I also have bilateral movements when vaping 5 Meo (not when snorted) , not to the extent he has them, but wouldn't classify this as ego...

of course there's no 'shoulds', but there's no point planning your entire 5 Meo course of action before taking it at least once. Take it once, see how you get on... if you're lucky, there won't be a "you" to plan all this anymore...

Perhaps I misspoke about Martin and I don’t mean to point to anyone else. I know this is a recurring theme in this field though. 

[Salvijus]

3 hours ago, bliss54 said:

This guy gives a good perspective:

 

That's actually a decent opinion.

Out of all the things i heard on this topic i feel it is too complex to answer it. Nobody seem to understand the subject fully, its both pros and cons side of it. And people who perhaps do, don't openly speak about it much, unfortunately. You only have your guts to rely on. Too bad it's often wrong also ? 

I would personly suggest to become as clean as you can and become rooted strongly in an authentic spiritual path. That way your intuition and judgement will become much clearer and sharper. You'll know if psychedelics are good for u or not then. Most people are attracted to psychedelics for very low and wrong reasons actually. They just want to masturbate on drugs or smth. ? 

Worst case would be to become compulsive about psychedelics without having clear unbiased judgement and self honesty that comes from strong sober spiritual discipline. Then it can suck u in and derail your life while you spend all of your time defending something you're compulsive about at all cost unwilling to see any opposite take on it. This happens to many people imo.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Salvijus

[Mips]

Deleted post.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Mips

[Xochiquetzal]

Well, In my opinion, there is no way to rely on psychedelics only to achieve such prolonged state unless you're really reckless and touching the border of schizophrenia, that would be un necessarily dangerous .

Various other spiritual pratices are key, not only to benefit from the trip, but also to understand your trip as well, without such foundations, you'll just freak the hell out .

That being said, I only have had about 5 experiences with 5-MeO-DMT about a year ago now, and I can say I *never fully came down* lol .

Helped me quit terrible habits and mindless behaviors, but did not send me to enlightenment yet

[Salvijus]

I think seeing god will inevitably be a positive effect on your life.

The question is, can your mind and body and psyche handle the experience? Bc if not it could be damaging.

Also is there a price to pay? Such a forceful external means to have a breakthrough a likely to have consiquences

And also are there better alternative ways to get there that are more natural and integral?

That would be the questions i would rise for myself before doing psychedelics.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Salvijus

[Breakingthewall]

5 meo does something that represents a before and after in your life: it breaks your limits and makes you infinite. this is unthinkable and indescribable, but it stays with you forever.

For this to happen completely without 5 meo seems impossible to me, but who knows in cases of very advanced meditators

[Mips]

46 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

5 meo does something that represents a before and after in your life: it breaks your limits and makes you infinite. this is unthinkable and indescribable, but it stays with you forever.

For this to happen completely without 5 meo seems impossible to me, but who knows in cases of very advanced meditators

Interesting, sounds like it does make a significant permanent change to your baseline consciousness, no? And does repeated use add to that cumulatively?

Edited January 30, 2023 by Mips

[Michal__]

If you spend as much time tripping as meditating the tripping will have way greater effect on baseline than the meditation.

You should still meditate though. There are some things that are easier to get with meditation than any other way (cessation, which lead to a perma no self state).

[Mips]

13 minutes ago, Michal__ said:

If you spend as much time tripping as meditating the tripping will have way greater effect on baseline than the meditation.

You should still meditate though. There are some things that are easier to get with meditation than any other way (cessation, which lead to a perma no self state).

Yes but a decent amount of integration is needed in between trips so you can’t trip all the time. Meditation can be done almost continually in some form or another. 

[Michal__]

8 minutes ago, Mips said:

Yes but a decent amount of integration is needed in between trips so you can’t trip all the time. Meditation can be done almost continually in some form or another. 

Breakthrough doses need integration time.

Smaller doses can be used multiple times a week.

And they get stronger overtime as your understanding increases.

If you feel like you're going off the rails then slow down.

[Mips]

47 minutes ago, Michal__ said:

Breakthrough doses need integration time.

Smaller doses can be used multiple times a week.

And they get stronger overtime as your understanding increases.

If you feel like you're going off the rails then slow down.

Psychedelic coaches (and most others) disagree, I’d be careful if you’re doing that unless it’s microdosing. Doing even moderate doses of any psychedelic several times a week on an ongoing basis would be a very bad idea.

Unless you’re talking about microdosing of course, but that wouldn’t raise conscious like meditation does. 
 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Mips

[Jodistrict]

I have done a lot of Bufo Alvarius, you have amazing experiences, but the next day it is just a memory.  The same problem with Ayahausca.  Lately, I have been looking into Iboga.  From what I have been reading about Iboga, it could bring about permanent changes.  The Iboga actually goes into your past and shows you the most important events that influenced you and gives you a chance to resolve your issues.  This is really something valuable, if you can heal your past-created mind to free you to have a joyful life.  I am beginning to question the usefulness of the “enlightenment” model.  Healing is what we need.   Expanding out of the mind-created prison is what I am looking for.  I am looking at the Iboga retreats.  I don’t like the hospital model and i don’t have any drug addictions.  

Edited January 30, 2023 by Jodistrict

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Mips said:

Interesting, sounds like it does make a significant permanent change to your baseline consciousness, no? And does repeated use add to that cumulatively?

infinity is a completely different state than normal, it is another frequency. if you do it many times, little by little it becomes normal for you. I dream of infinity many nights, it's almost the same as a trip. my baseline, my energetic vibration, has completely changed. a total experience of absolute infinity is something beyond any explanation. we are finite, apparently. we live in the finite. entering the real dimension, the infinite, changes you forever