The role of suffering in creation

[Someone here]

I've seen a lot of posts recently (especially from @Holykael)  about people suffering and complaining about their misery in life and why God is such an asshole for creating a reality that is so filled with pain and misery instead of designing a perfect paradise for all humans to live in .

So the question is :Is God evil ? Of course not . Is God stupid? Of course not .is God not omnipotent ? Of course no. Is God toying with us ?of course not. 

So what's up with God? Well think about it .truly understand that YOU are God and you have created this existence.  Put yourself in the shoes of God and try to imagine how would you construct reality. 

Imagine if you created reality in such a way that you get instantly everything you want out of thin air . Just by thinking about it.  Imagine!!

whatever you want in a second.

You wish for wealth ?Boom, 1 billion dollars deposited in your account.

You wish for love? Boom, you get a beautiful spouse.

You wish for friends ?Boom, you got a ton of really cool friends to go on a vacation with you.

How would you feel if this happens for real?

You would feel amazing right ?

Drive around in a Lambo, have a nice loving partner, have so much wealth that you don’t have to work even for a minute and can just party all day.

My question tho would be, for how long would you feel the same level of happiness?You might feel great for a few days, maybe weeks, maybe months but what next?Would you keep feeling so high and happy all the time?

Heck no.

Your happiness levels will come to the same level as you have now and eventually everything gets boring and plain.Don’t believe me? I have a theory to prove this.Have you ever played GTA ?Have you ever used cheat codes in GTA?Im sure that if you ever played GTA you would have used those cheat codes.

When I first came to know about cheat codes, I went mad and did everything I could.

I increased my wealth as much as I could, I bought houses and I also got all the fancy cars and parked them in the garage.

And for the moment, it did feel nice to have everything even though it was a game.

However after a day I got sick of using cheat codes and went to play the game without them and started to normally complete all the missions and thats when I really enjoyed the game.

So you actually purposely designed reality in such a way without access to cheat codes (which we might call God mode ). Now Leo says that it's possible to do that by plugging 200 syringe of 5-Meo-DMT up your butt ..but that's a different topic for a different day .

What I want to say is that suffering is what makes life worth living .how paradoxical is that ? That you get to work and work your ass off for hours just to put bread on the table is what makes that piece of bread tastes so good . Try it . Try stealing money and eating food with it .you will not feel proud of yourself.  Now ,Try working in a tiresome job and earn money and buy food and notice how literally the food will taste better .

So in conclusion..suffering is what gives life meaning.  You could've created reality without suffering but you deliberately didn't because it would simply be boring. 

Any questions, objections ,critiques ..are  welcomed 

[Lenny]

You have some interesting ideas there. But, what happens when perspective is shifted, as the result of an awakening, and suffering is no longer experienced? Does that mean that when one is free of suffering that there is no longer meaning in life?

Maybe some food for our thoughts.

[Arthogaan]

Almost all of people I know that played Sims, tried to trap the sims in the swimming pool to make them suffer and die.

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, Lenny said:

You have some interesting ideas there. But, what happens when perspective is shifted, as the result of an awakening, and suffering is no longer experienced? Does that mean that when one is free of suffering that there is no longer meaning in life?

Maybe some food for our thoughts.

It is wired in our heads, that everything worthwhile, shouldn’t come easy. BUT, look at Your own experience, and You will see, that best things in life came completely free of charge and by itself.

Suffering only brings more suffering, with it comes balance and meaning . If you only suffer your life would have no meaning .if you only feel happy all the time ..also ..life will be boring and without meaning .

Joy on the other hand, brings more joy, and when You are joyful, You are automatically interested in others to share it, and that’s how You CREATE a meaning.

[Holykael]

There is a huge flaw in your argumentation. Happiness is imaginary. This means god controls your level of happiness as a state of consciousness. God could make you happy and satisfied with life just by staring at a blank wall. The concept of hedonistic adaptation is something that god implements not something that exists at the outset.

God designed life as a story and he couldn't care less if you suffer, all he cares about is the story. God is an evil artist. God mixes situations and appearances to specific states of consciousness, everything is constructed.

Suffering is completely useless and the only reason it exists is because god loves it, not because it has any use.

Another way to look at it is happiness being a knob that god can turn at will.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Holykael

[Sincerity]

Pretty on point. 

God is in Love with the drama of Life. All suffering/fear stems from God's Love for Itself.

My Love for Myself.

[Sincerity]

@Holykael You Are God, dum dum  It's just You.

[Holykael]

12 minutes ago, Sincerity said:

@Holykael You Are God, dum dum  It's just You.

I hate myself man. I'm so disappointed with this creation

[Sincerity]

1 hour ago, Holykael said:

I hate myself man. I'm so disappointed with this creation

It's your Creation. And it's Perfect.

My friend. You hate yourself because You don't remember who You are. You have to AWAKEN. YOU ARE GOD! There is nothing but YOU! YOU! YOU!

In truth You LOVE yourself but You're asleep so much that You don't remember it. And You're asleep by Your Own Design, which IS LOVE!

I believe in You.  You can always reach out to Me to talk.

Edited January 29, 2023 by Sincerity

[Thought Art]

@Holykael have you heard of Byron Katie’s work?

[Breakingthewall]

Suffering is relative, so you have to understand it from a relative angle. To say is that God is bored is to anthropomorphize God, nonsense. From the relative point of view, suffering is an engine of change and evolution. indicates that you are not in the right place, in the right attitude. Eliminate suffering is to equalize yourself. humanity is moved by suffering, it is a mechanism, nothing more. If you don't like it, it's because it has been designed that way. but to like or not to like is a relative concept. from the absolute there is no difference

[Someone here]

2 hours ago, Holykael said:

There is a huge flaw in your argumentation. Happiness is imaginary. This means god controls your level of happiness as a state of consciousness. God could make you happy and satisfied with life just by staring at a blank wall. The concept of hedonistic adaptation is something that god implements not something that exists at the outset.

God designed life as a story and he couldn't care less if you suffer, all he cares about is the story. God is an evil artist. God mixes situations and appearances to specific states of consciousness, everything is constructed.

Suffering is completely useless and the only reason it exists is because god loves it, not because it has any use.

Another way to look at it is happiness being a knob that god can turn at will.

Yes as I said you Intentionally designed the suffering .  because if we are 100% blessed out and happy 24/7 then WTF is there to do ?  counting the stars ?

 you first have to ask yourself “What is bad/evil?” Is bad/evil a physical thing? Can you touch bad/evil? Can you see bad/evil? Can you taste bad/evil? If you’ve answered “No” to any of these questions, you have most likely come to the conclusion that bad/evil is not a “thing” like a book or a coin. Bad/evil is not existent by itself, however, it is the absence of good.

A hole is real, but it cannot exist within itself. It requires the absence of something. The absence of dirt is a hole, but that hole cannot be separated from the dirt.

When God created the universe, he created it everything as good. One of God’s many creations were creatures that were given free will.. or the ability to choose good. In order for it to be a true choice, God had to allow for there to be something besides good to choose from.

If a person was asked “Does cold exist?”, they would most likely answer with a “yes”. This answer is not true. Cold by itself cannot exist. Cold is simply the absence of heat. Much like the first example, darkness by itself cannot exist. Darkness is simply the absence of light.

So, what can we conclude? I believe the answer is quite clear with these two examples. God did not create evil, He simply allowed for the absence of good. Moreso, not only is evil the absence of good, but evil is also the absence of God.

If God had not allowed for the absence of good, His creation wouldn’t be serving Him out of choice, but rather by obligation. Lastly, if God had not allowed for the absence of good, He would have made robots, which is a direct contradiction to free will… It also wouldn’t show Him to be a truly loving God, as love must be freely given from both parties.

[Someone here]

Just now, Breakingthewall said:

Suffering is relative, so you have to understand it from a relative angle. To say is that God is bored is to anthropomorphize God, nonsense. From the relative point of view, suffering is an engine of change and evolution. indicates that you are not in the right place, in the right attitude. Eliminate suffering is to equalize yourself. humanity is moved by suffering, it is a mechanism, nothing more. If you don't like it, it's because it has been designed that way. but to like or not to like is a relative concept. from the absolute there is no difference

 No .actually you are God. You are human and god at the same time.  So yes ..it's  anthropomorphizing of God.  God IS YOU. Not a universal impartial force or a bearded man up in the clouds.

If you create a world and everything in it, you also created what’s going to happen inside of it. So obviously you created suffering. You want it .if you didn't want it as God..you would've not created . Hence ,my claim is that you  actually enjoy the suffering. 

Another version is: if you create a world that was imperfect, knowing beforehand everything that would happen in it (misery, suffering, death by the shiploads), and did nothing to prevent it when you could have! then you’re responsible for all of that, because you were (in the best case scenario) negligent, and at worst you were the actual perpetrator. So do you want to accuse God of being evil ? Or accept that evil is itself the very goodness of God. 

 

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Sincerity said:

It's your Creation. And it's Perfect.

My friend. You hate yourself because You don't remember who You are. You have to AWAKEN. YOU ARE GOD! There is nothing but YOU! YOU! YOU!

In truth You LOVE yourself but You're asleep so much that You don't remember it. And You're asleep by Your Own Design, which IS LOVE!

I believe in You.  You can always reach out to Me to talk.

This ?

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, Someone here said:

actually you are God.

You are in a human experience and you you have no control over it, there are rules you can't change, so as a human, you are not god, you are a creation.

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

So obviously you created suffering. You want it

reality creates suffering as an engine of evolution, just as it creates your legs to go from one place to another 

7 minutes ago, Someone here said:

you create a world that was imperfect, knowing beforehand everything that would happen in it (misery, suffering, death by the shiploads)

reality is perfect, because it is. the idea of "imperfect" is a human concept, which means: it is not as I would like it to be. but "would like" is a relative concept, a survival drive

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

You are in a human experience and you you have no control over it, there are rules you can't change, so as a human, you are not god, you are a creation.

What I call God is not a man with a beard, living in the sky, but Divine Consciousness, and all sentient Beings, including us, are part of that which we call God!..Our aliveness, consciousness and conscience are all aspects of God which are within us all.

Thats why we were told we were made in the image of God and are able to create, by how we think, intend and believe, and were advised to listen to the still small voice (of God) within..and that The kingdom of heaven is within.  What are the sages since the dawn of time trying to hint ?

5 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

reality creates suffering as an engine of evolution, just as it creates your legs to go from one place to another 

OK that's YOUR story about suffering. 

MY story is different than yours .

6 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

reality is perfect.

That's exactly my whole point of this thread my man .we agree.

[Holykael]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Yes as I said you Intentionally designed the suffering .  because if we are 100% blessed out and happy 24/7 then WTF is there to do ?  counting the stars ?

 you first have to ask yourself “What is bad/evil?” Is bad/evil a physical thing? Can you touch bad/evil? Can you see bad/evil? Can you taste bad/evil? If you’ve answered “No” to any of these questions, you have most likely come to the conclusion that bad/evil is not a “thing” like a book or a coin. Bad/evil is not existent by itself, however, it is the absence of good.

A hole is real, but it cannot exist within itself. It requires the absence of something. The absence of dirt is a hole, but that hole cannot be separated from the dirt.

When God created the universe, he created it everything as good. One of God’s many creations were creatures that were given free will.. or the ability to choose good. In order for it to be a true choice, God had to allow for there to be something besides good to choose from.

If a person was asked “Does cold exist?”, they would most likely answer with a “yes”. This answer is not true. Cold by itself cannot exist. Cold is simply the absence of heat. Much like the first example, darkness by itself cannot exist. Darkness is simply the absence of light.

So, what can we conclude? I believe the answer is quite clear with these two examples. God did not create evil, He simply allowed for the absence of good. Moreso, not only is evil the absence of good, but evil is also the absence of God.

If God had not allowed for the absence of good, His creation wouldn’t be serving Him out of choice, but rather by obligation. Lastly, if God had not allowed for the absence of good, He would have made robots, which is a direct contradiction to free will… It also wouldn’t show Him to be a truly loving God, as love must be freely given from both parties.

No one has free will https://youtu.be/PqlGozIav60

[Someone here]

@Holykael I highly recommend you watching this 

 

[BlessedLion]

Fascinating conversation. Thanks guys!