Question about Awakenings + Quality of life after

[Matt23]

So, I've heard many people here having these profound experiences, but I'm wondering how many people's lives are better after them (long-term and short-term).

Similarly with people who take psychedelics (I know people who do them yet in my mind they aren't what I would call very mature etc..).  Like my brother for example.  Last time I saw him he said he'd been taking more psychedelics... but he's still the same person pretty much as I remember... similar hang-ups and nuissances etc.  

I'm just skeptical about how much these experiences really change people's lives in the long run qualitatively and in terms of behaving differently and in a more healthy and productive way.

Love to hear any first person experiences

Edited January 25, 2023 by Matt23

[Thought Art]

@Matt23 There is a lot more needed than just tripping to really grow. People need to read, journal, get life experience, etc. There’s the 4 quadrant model from Ken Wilber: 

1. waking up

2. Growing up

3. Cleaning up

4. showing up

Dont want to go into more detail. Tripping along with everything else I am doing is growing me for sure. Shrooms eradicated my depression by more than 80% in a single trip but I also do a lot to take responsibility, action, and develop self efficacy in my life.

[puporing]

It seems to vary a lot and is highly personal. 

The transformational aspects that may come are your decisions to make. From the ego perspective, it doesn't make sense to want such radical transformations so it would seem "unproductive". But actually, this planet could use more selfless awakened healers/leaders, so if your self-identity becomes about the collective then it actually makes perfect sense once you yourself are healed and able to give more than you receive from the ego standpoint (eg, where you start to live in the reality that by giving to another that you're giving to yourself, but with self-respect also). Awakening does not guarantee this path it takes more decision-making to reach that, but it certainly can if used for this purpose on top of understanding. Understanding to me goes hand in hand with transformation so it just depends on what you are personally inspired to do. Deep awakenings can inspire you to be dedicated to being an artist, conscious leader, saint, empathic healer, spiritual teacher, etc on this planet, or just a really good/generous person. But to actualize those things you still have to actually decide for such. Or you can still live out the rest of this life through the ego perspective if that is what you feel inspired to do and there's nothing wrong with that either, or "away from society", it just highly depends on the individual and where they are at in their evolution. Most people's immediate concern is to heal their own traumas and internal conflicts, and that already can improve their lives drastically for themselves and the world, and I would say a requirement for the next steps. However it can also disorient you for some time and cause you to change your work and life drastically. It is helpful to have some support in your life during the awakening process if you have the luxury of such.

Some people can awaken a lot and not really change that much or change very slowly, others it can cause a total shift that the person you once knew is no longer. The glory and love from God should inspire you but it's not a simple process, the permanent dissolution of the ego is an arduous process and there are many layers of it for most beings and takes some time if you are not born awakened at a young age. But sometimes you just know that that's what you're meant for in this incarnation, whereas others have to go through a few things and come back to it. During this time it's not uncommon to go through bouts of depression, suicidal thoughts, doubts, etc. So one might seem to the world that one is going insane and "lost it". But you will come out the other side and have grown from it. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by puporing

[LfcCharlie4]

Happiness basically 

But, its not easy & integration is foreverrrr, its like getting a brand new car but you still gotta learn to drive it properly & take care of it

Also, you're still a Human right. So, we all have 'Human' issues (examples- obesity, substances, behavioral issues etc) don't expect awakening to take care of all of those, that's where, yes, integration comes in but also traditional Self-Help in overcoming these. Shinzen Young has a video somewhere explaining he had to go to Therapy for certain issues after decades of meditations & awakenings. 

I think a lot of people expect awakening to be some sort of magical pill to blissland, and a lot of the Literature can point to that. And, while yes, you're no happy & can enjoy life like never before, it doesn't mean the other side of the coin doesn't exist- You are still Human. 

Especially if you live a typical Western life & aren't meditating in a cave all day

Awakening to the absolute in my opinion is simply the start of a new way of being, its then up to you to allow the teaching to percolate all realms of life. Nobody & no teacher is perfect simply because we are all living a Human life. 

However, I would add the best way to spot an integrated & true mature awakening is one's behavior & actions- the more aligned with truth, love, joy, happiness etc the more they have clearly integrated. 'Half-Baked' awakenings are what lead to a lot of the issues you see with Gurus, or, the denial of one's humanity, which Is very common in Eastern Traditions where sex & whatever else is shunned leading to in some cases horrific outcomes 

Best quote for a life following the teaching - 'Love and do whatever you want.' 

Really is that simple

 

[WelcometoReality]

@LfcCharlie4 Very well said! The most important aspect is that it doesn't end with the awakening.

It's that awakening is the beginning and there is no end. 

I like how Adyashanti puts it.

- Enjoy yourself!

[Matt23]

19 hours ago, Thought Art said:

@Matt23 There is a lot more needed than just tripping to really grow. People need to read, journal, get life experience, etc. There’s the 4 quadrant model from Ken Wilber: 

1. waking up

2. Growing up

3. Cleaning up

4. showing up

Dont want to go into more detail. Tripping along with everything else I am doing is growing me for sure. Shrooms eradicated my depression by more than 80% in a single trip but I also do a lot to take responsibility, action, and develop self efficacy in my life.

Ya, I'm aware of all that and how people need to do more than have these experiences.  

I'm just wanting to know how much those experiences in particular change people's lives.  Actually.  Practically.  

Or if it's literally just that during these experiences you see things more clearly, then the experience ends and you have to integrate it and nothing really changed except your recollection of what you saw (not saying that's nothing, just that your behaviors won't change without implementing what you saw).  

...

Come to think of it... I remember Ralston speaking about for some people, entire behavior patterns just instantly fall away (I think the video is called something like "Consider instant transformation").  But then others not.  

 

Edited January 26, 2023 by Matt23

[michaelcycle00]

Why go through all that is the real question. You’re gonna go back to the “perfect state” once you die, and then you’ll be a clean slate by incarnating as someone else all over again. Why not just focus on enjoying life and allowing yourself to be happy as you are?

Why go through that arduous and painful process that is entirely meaningless at the end?

I personally feel like this self-awakening and liberation thing is sold as some infinitely amazing pill when it’s just decades of work and constant self-reflection when you’re already guaranteed to get there in the end. You’re not helping anybody ever because reality is being imagined in the now and time doesn’t exist. If you choose to be happy now, it’s no different than going through some process to get to the same destination when it’s just a couple feet away from you already. 
 

Is it a coping mechanism related to being unaccepting of the inherent meaninglessness of reality?

[puporing]

@michaelcycle00 There is a point, to release you from the identification with the "small self" you've been conditioned with, to restore what was rightfully yours to begin with. But you always have the freewill to decide this.

Edited January 26, 2023 by puporing

[SeaMonster]

2 hours ago, michaelcycle00 said:

Why not just focus on enjoying life and allowing yourself to be happy as you are?

Because it's a form of self-delusion and it doesn't work.  You can't simply enjoy a life premised on perpetuating a lie.

 

[SeaMonster]

On 1/25/2023 at 4:24 PM, Matt23 said:

So, I've heard many people here having these profound experiences, but I'm wondering how many people's lives are better after them (long-term and short-term).

A lot of people have unrealistic expectations about enlightenment.

Enlightenment is just an opportunity.  The major obstacle on the road to becoming whole is removed, but you still have to travel down that road.  So yes, it is in a sense a new beginning, not an end or destination or arrival.

Edited January 26, 2023 by SeaMonster

[Leo Gura]

When it comes to Awakening, mostly what it does is add beauty and depth to life. That is the key improvement.

Improving your behavior and the like is not automatic, that requires serious work, and unless your behavior is awful then perfecting it will not necessarily make you much happier.

Taking a bunch of chemicals is not gonna make you a good person by itself.

The real reward of this work is the raw understanding itself. When you understand what reality is, that is the greatest joy. And then you see that in every direction you look. Life shines with Beauty and that is true happiness. Sorta like when you were a kid. Everything shined.

Qualitatively, you sit on your couch amazed at the Beauty of it all. I've achieved a lot of material improvements in my life, but nothing beats that. Awakening teaches you how to just sit and be amazed by nothing fancy. Existence becomes an actual miracle.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Leo Gura

[PeaceOut96]

The ego gets nothing it is God who awakens.

[LfcCharlie4]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

When it comes to Awakening, mostly what it does is add beauty and depth to life. That is the key improvement.

Improving your behavior and the like is not automatic, that requires serious work, and unless your behavior is awful then perfecting it will not necessarily make you much happier.

Taking a bunch of chemicals is not gonna make you a good person by itself.

The real reward of this work is the raw understanding itself. When you understand what reality is, that is the greatest joy. And then you see that in every direction you look. Life shines with Beauty and that is true happiness. Sorta like when you were a kid. Everything shined.

Qualitatively, you sit on your couch amazed at the Beauty of it all. I've achieved a lot of material improvements in my life, but nothing beats that. Awakening teaches you how to just sit and be amazed by nothing fancy. Existence becomes an actual miracle.

 

+1

I would say improving your behavior does actually make you happier if it goes into all realms of life, the cliche of 'Living from Love' is very true, but I guess you could say it becomes so natural you don't notice it. But, if you was to compare it to before you would realize how much 'better' life has become as a result. But, like you said, its very likely you had aspects of life you behaved 'rightly' and loved already, depends on the person I guess. 

@michaelcycle00 Happiness & Love- if you already have those, then you're there. Most people get into this precisely because they have a lack of both. But, in a sense you're right, its about enjoying life. However, for a lot of people its hard to enjoy life in their mental / life situation

[LfcCharlie4]

@WelcometoReality 10000% 

You have to take the work seriously at points, but also know when its time to let yourself loose and simply enjoy life as you said 

'Modern Awakening' is often chapter 1 of the book so to speak, and the book only ends for you when the body passes away 

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

I would say improving your behavior does actually make you happier

Depends of course on how bad your behavior was to begin with.

Much like with the gym, there tend to be diminishing returns after a while.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Leo Gura

[LfcCharlie4]

@Leo Gura Yeah of course. 

But using the same analogy, that buzz after a workout never goes away, just like the joy & fulfillment of behaving well

[Leo Gura]

Hard to say how much joy I get out of behaving well. It's a rather vague notion. Certainly it avoids suffering.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Leo Gura

[WelcometoReality]

36 minutes ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

@WelcometoReality 10000% 

You have to take the work seriously at points, but also know when its time to let yourself loose and simply enjoy life as you said 

'Modern Awakening' is often chapter 1 of the book so to speak, and the book only ends for you when the body passes away 

Yeah definetly. I don't know if you'll resonate with this but at a certain point the ability to push yourself to do things goes away, life will naturally unfold by itself. You do the things you do because that's what you enjoy doing. And if that is personal development or anything else it's not really up to you. ?

[LfcCharlie4]

@WelcometoReality Yeah, agreed.

I think naturally you turn towards what you need through intuition & fate to some degree. 

I think naturally for me, Personal Development is like that, as I like feeling good & progressing. The effortless effort. The only pushback I would give is with addictions & lasting bad habits, as they are almost wired into your psychology when they've been repeated for so long. I guess you could argue naturally the desire to change them is effortless, as is the whole process, as it is simply moving towards alignment. Words can over confuse it 

But, that's also why this teaching can be dangerous for certain people, as they are in such a dire state, that seeming effort is required. 

But, they just don't realize, all along it has been the absolute pushing the boat, and when this is truly realized, life becomes 1000x better, easier & you can work with the universe to materialize those desires, Kinda cool right

For example- Gym / Health is an 'effort' at first, now I couldn't imagine life without it. I guess that's the process of aligning your life with the teaching, as if you aren't enjoying something, maybe its time to change something

 

@Leo Gura I always just think of that shitty feeling you get when you 'behave bad' or know you done something shitty- Guilt, Shame etc compared to the opposite of that

[WelcometoReality]

2 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

WelcometoReality Yeah, agreed.

I think naturally you turn towards what you need through intuition & fate to some degree. 

I think naturally for me, Personal Development is like that, as I like feeling good & progressing. The effortless effort. The only pushback I would give is with addictions & lasting bad habits, as they are almost wired into your psychology when they've been repeated for so long. I guess you could argue naturally the desire to change them is effortless, as is the whole process, as it is simply moving towards alignment. Words can over confuse it 

But, that's also why this teaching can be dangerous for certain people, as they are in such a dire state, that seeming effort is required. 

Yeah, I don't like it as a teaching. Or it should be used with careful consideration as a teacher. For those people who have been conditioned to push push push it can be useful to relax/ease into things a bit. But for some it can be more helpful to use "seeming effort" as you said. 

2 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

But, they just don't realize, all along it has been the absolute pushing the boat, and when this is truly realized, life becomes 1000x better, easier & you can work with the universe to materialize those desires, Kinda cool right

For example- Gym / Health is an 'effort' at first, now I couldn't imagine life without it. I guess that's the process of aligning your life with the teaching, as if you aren't enjoying something, maybe its time to change something

Yeah, what I said earlier was not meant as a teaching but rather a description of the experience of day to day life here. I guess you could describe it as doing whatever that feels 'right' from moment to moment. That's not to be confused with what feels 'good'. More like an intuitive feel of where the boat is leaning and moving with it but there is no conscious effort of doing it. I'm struggling with putting it into words as you might tell. ?