Constructive criticism for Leo

[no_name]

3 minutes ago, Michael Jackson said:

@no_name speaking about "misogynistic behaviour" without giving a SINGLE example is childish.

You have not given a single example so far. So shut up!

I have given like 4 examples. Go back to my replies. 

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, Michael Jackson said:

@no_name speaking about "misogynistic behaviour" without giving a SINGLE example is childish.

You have not given a single example so far. So shut up!

His whole attitude towards women needs to change.  Especially if he wants to find a girl that will love him for who he is and not the crap he spits.   As of now the pickup circle brainwashed him into thinking women are property that need to be obtained through specific behavior as if they are robots responding to specific stimuli.   It doesn't work like that if you want a long term relationship.   You have to be equal partners 

[Michael Jackson]

2 minutes ago, no_name said:

I have given like 4 examples. Go back to my replies. 

You have not given 1 SINGLE example. I read all your crap. What a waste of time!

[Byun Sean]

53 minutes ago, no_name said:

You are the first one who talked to me in this thread. I actually wanted to say this to you - that you promised not to engage with me anymore. You indirectly commented on my response - this is engaging.

Also, like I explained, I only commented here for people who find themselves confused with Leo’s behaviour. They are not alone, and they are right to be concerned/doubt Leo’s integrity and his claims to be enlightened.

I am also not obligated to explain to you why and how I engage with this forum. 

It has been discussed many times that dating advice for men will not fully resonate with women. The survival agendas don't line up perfectly. Some would even say they are adversarial in some ways.

 

But thats not the point. The point is that by Leo teaching men how to better attract women in healthy ways, it actually benefits you. It doesn't hurt you. Why? 

What are are you afraid of more as a woman? Men who are unhealthy and dysfunctional who seek getting laid in compulsive ways? 

Or strong, healthy, confident men who seek it in healthy ways without as much attachment to outcome?

 

You want the second one right. This emotional bs of "listening to male dating advice on how to attract women hurts my feelings as a woman" is just wtf.

OF COURSE. You are a woman. Men probably won't fully resonate with dating advice for women on how to attract men. Thats just how it goes.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Byun Sean

[Michael Jackson]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

His whole attitude towards women needs to change.  Especially if he wants to find a girl that will love him for who he is and not the crap he spits.   As of now the pickup circle brainwashed him into thinking women are property that need to be obtained through specific behavior as if they are robots responding to specific stimuli.   It doesn't work like that if you want a long term relationship.   You have to be equal partners 

Well Leo is not talking about building long term relationships. Only thing he is teaching is how attraction works. And how to get laid. (Short term)

As far as these things go, his advice is solid and not in any way misogynistic, at least not that I know of.

I never heard Leo claiming that women are property or robots. However, it is true that women (and men) are animals which are conditioned by milions of years of evolution to respond to certain stimuli in very specific ways. Attraction is not rocket science, but rather like taming a dog. Humans are animals!

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Michael Jackson said:

Well Leo is not talking about building long term relationships. Only thing he is teaching is how attraction works. And how to get laid. (Short term)

 

That right there is the core problem.  

[mr_engineer]

@Inliytened1 He doesn't tell anyone that they absolutely have to do as he says to get laid. It's just his way of doing it and what's worked for him. 

By the way, pick-up is not something that resonates with me. Because I want a relationship. But, I can perfectly understand that it resonates with guys who want casual sex and not a serious relationship. 

I do agree that if you want a relationship, you have to do things differently. There is no shortcut or algorithm for it, it's long-term personal-development. And long-term positioning of yourself for compatible people. But, calling guys who just want casual sex 'misogynistic', just shows the petty attitude of the people using that word. 

[Michael Jackson]

8 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

That right there is the core problem.  

Why is this a problem?

If I tell you that I teach spanish, would you see a problem in that fact, because I don't teach french as well?

Edited January 25, 2023 by Michael Jackson

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, Michael Jackson said:

Why is this a problem?

If I tell you that I teach spanish, would you see a problem in the fact that I don't teach french as well?

Because in this mindset you only want a woman for sex.  Women can see through that.  

Edited January 25, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Michael Jackson]

3 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Because in this mindset you only want a woman for sex.  Women can see through that.  

Short term attraction and getting laid has nothing to do with wether I only want sex or wether I want a relationship.

Short term attraction is what is needed in either case, because without attraction & getting laid, no relationship will happen.

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Michael Jackson said:

Short term attraction and getting laid has nothing to do with wether I only want sex or wether I want a relationship.

Short term attraction is what is needed in either case, because without attraction & getting laid, no relationship will happen.

But sex can't be the goal.   Agreed?  Thus, when you approach a woman it should not be for the end goal of getting laid.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Inliytened1

[no_name]

1 minute ago, Michael Jackson said:

Short term attraction and getting laid has nothing to do with wether I only want sex or wether I want a relationship.

Short term attraction is what is needed in either case, because without attraction & getting laid, no relationship will happen.

Why can’t there be a relationship without getting laid? 

[Thought Art]

21 minutes ago, Michael Jackson said:

Well Leo is not talking about building long term relationships. Only thing he is teaching is how attraction works. And how to get laid. (Short term)

 

In the series he does discuss how to transition from pickup into long term. And mentions he will do a video on conscious relationships in the future. 
 

Please note the area around dating, pickup, and attraction is generally controversial in general. Please remember to be respectful to one another. I and other mods will be keeping an eye on this thread. These can be important conversations but let’s not let things get out of hand. People are making great points and asking questions here. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

I want to note that people of both sex, depending on their personality, desires and current tastes an preferences may want: 

1. a long term relationship 

2. casual sex 

There is no need to shame anyone for wanting either. Obviously you should be looking to have quality consensual relations with those you become intimate with. 

I am wondering if this thread has gone off topic? 

[Inliytened1]

3 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

In the series he does discuss how to transition from pickup into long term. And mentions he will do a video on conscious relationships in the future. 
 

Please note the area around dating, pickup, and attraction is generally controversial in general. Please remember to be respectful to one another. I and other mods will be keeping an eye on this thread. These can be important conversations but let’s not let things get out of hand. People are making great points and asking questions here. 

Again - all Leo had to do is be contrite and humble on this subject.  He is beginning to show humility in other areas and that's great.   But in this area the male ego is particularly  strong.  So humility can go a long way 

[Michael Jackson]

5 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

But sex can't be the goal.   Agreed?  Thus, when you approach a woman it should not be for the end goal of getting laid.

@Inliytened1 Personally I agree. The true goal for me is love and connection, but I also understand that some people are socially desperate and inexperienced. Also some might be sexually inexperienced and scared of the opposite sex.

For such folks I believe that simply getting laid might be a practical and appropriate step in their personal development, not the end goal of course.

[something_else]

Most of the attraction advice here is literally just:

”go out, be sociable, and talk to lots of women”

I don’t really see what’s so misogynistic about it. I definitely agree Leo has a really bad reputation for spitting out some nasty one liners like “club sluts” and “monsters from the black lagoon” which are needlessly insulting. But the core advice excluding that horseshit is not really anything that misogynistic

It’s mostly just trying to get man-cave dwelling computer nerds to go outside for once

Another problem is that it’s really hard to give dating advice that appeals to either men or women without offending the other. It’s because their dating agendas are so different. If we go and look at really female centric dating forums or subreddits as guys it also makes us feel like utter dogshit in the way they talk about and compare us.

I’m not saying it’s a good thing, but it is something that’s very tough to avoid when giving gendered dating advice. And the forum is mostly male so the dating advice is always gonna be biased.

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by something_else

[Thought Art]

@Inliytened1 Perhaps, 

I personally have watched Leo’s pickup series, and all his videos in general. I also have read his comments. I don’t think people see him clearly. I don’t really see what is damaging to anyone with it? 
 

Men and women are struggling with this area of life right now. I am not surprised by the comments I see. 
 

There is a reality when it comes to men and women. There is a dynamic at play here. For me, it seemed balanced and realistic. He focused on picking up girls at night in bars and clubs. 
 

I don’t think he needs to do anything. 

[something_else]

12 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

But sex can't be the goal.   Agreed?  Thus, when you approach a woman it should not be for the end goal of getting laid.

Says who? Plenty of men and women just want sex and who are you to shame them for that? Some people are more sexually driven than others and I can sense the judgement from you towards such people. I don’t think that is fair.

A pretty good approach to life for lots of men and women is to explore around sexually and romantically when you are younger to learn what you like and what kind of person you would actually want to spend the rest of your life with, then settle down as you get a good sense of it

[Michael Jackson]

2 minutes ago, something_else said:

Most of the attraction advice here is literally just:

”go out, be sociable, and talk to lots of women”

I don’t really see what’s so misogynistic about it. I definitely agree Leo has a really bad reputation for spitting out some nasty one liners like “club sluts” and “monsters from the black lagoon” which are needlessly insulting. But the core advice excluding that horseshit is not really anything that misogynistic

It’s mostly just trying to get man-cave dwelling computer nerds to go outside for once

Another problem is that it’s really hard to give dating advice that appeals to both men and women without offending either. It’s because their dating agendas are so different. If we go and look at really female centric dating forums or subreddits as guys it also makes us feel like utter dogshit in the way they talk about and compare us.

I’m not saying it’s a good thing, but it is something that’s very tough to avoid when giving gendered dating advice. And the forum is mostly male so the dating advice is always gonna be biased

 

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