Constructive criticism for Leo

[ivankiss]

Hey Leo. This is kind of spontaneous and I have a feeling it's going to be good.

Not a hardcore follower, but I have been around here for some time and I consumed quite enough of your content on YouTube. While I do have my disagreements with some of your ideas and ways, I want to make it clear that I am very grateful for your contribution to this world. You helped me and so many others, in so many ways. The work you've done is truly mind-blowing.

I enjoyed listening to you Leo these past few years. I enjoyed it, most of the time. I could never really put my finger on what was putting me off. It wasn't the information you were sharing. It was something beneath that. As if there was a disconnection between what was being said and what was being demonstrated - if you know what I mean. It seemed like you were not really rooted in that which you were talking about. As if you were out of alignment with it.

But today it kind of came to me in a simpler form. In a more down to earth way - if you will.

It's just your attitude. That's what's bugging me.

While watching you and listening to you, I often feel like you are assuming that I am dumb. You are assuming that I cannot possibly comprehend what you are sharing with me. It almost feels like you are trying to convince me that what you're saying is true. Or even, convince yourself. Simply put, it seems as if you assume your audience to be kind of stupid. It's like you are talking down to them. It's like you are assuming yourself to be in a higher position, by default. You do not demonstrate enough humility or compassion. And I'm not talking about the words you're speaking. I'm talking about your general state of being - for lack of better words. What are you rooted in when you are talking about Love, Truth, God, etc.? It's often not Love. It's arrogance, frustration, anger, cynicism, desperation, pain, confusion, fear, etc. You can get quite neurotic, too. Yes, all that is Love, of course. But also, no, it isn't, really. You know what I mean.

I understand why this is. I understand that you have your own journey and your own shit to deal with, so of course you cannot be all Love n Light all the time. That's not what I'm trying to say. I just think that you could be more relaxed with your approach. Not so tense and aggressive. I think you could speak to your audience in a more mature way. Not like they're these slacker students who failed a bunch of classes. If you were to speak to that camera as if you were truly and actually speaking to God, or yourself, your tone of voice, your attitude, your state of being, would be quite different. Not saying you should do that, just pointing it out as an interesting thought. 

Sometimes I want to share some of your content with people who are not really into all this stuff. Or maybe they are a little bit, but are coming from different backgrounds. And what I noticed is that what puts them off, is indeed your attitude. The way you're presenting the information. Not the information itself.

It's not just what you say. It's how you say it, too. 

Give it a thought. Much love and respect.

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, ivankiss said:

 

While watching you and listening to you, I often feel like you are assuming that I am dumb.

But isn't this a reflection on you and not him?  Think about it.  Who came up with this but you? He's just a guy on a screen.  He is made of pixels.   You are the one interpreting the words. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Inliytened1

[thepixelmonk]

Yeah this is projection.

[Matt23]

4 hours ago, thepixelmonk said:

Yeah this is projection.

Mmm... maybe some... but also true.  I get what the o.p. is saying.  

Just because projection is occurring doesn't mean the qualities projected dont also exist in the one being projected upon.  I could be projecting greed and arrogance onto Trump, and lo and behold Trump is also greedy and arrogant.  Both are true.  Ken Wilber wrote about this.  He said something like if you find yourself abnormally irritated by someone, you're probably projecting onto them AND that that person probably has those qualities your projecting.  So it acts like a double hit of shit you dislike.  ... a shit sandwich if you will ?

Hell, even Leo has said this stuff about himself.

I dunno... the o.p. sounded reasonable to me.  Balanced.  Not unhinged etc.  

I wouldn't immediately wave it off as just projection.  

[ZGROPIUS]

I don't feel the will of disconnection in his normal teachings. Only sometimes they gets tired and says a few lossy sentences, It's only in the last 20mins in the range of 2~3 hour-long speaking in some episodes. It's understandable.

?‍♂️But it will feel little sting if you see them as if it's your parent or the one and only - the biggest source of love. 

[StormLight]

So glad more and more people are becoming aware of this underlying attitude. Looking past the words. Its always been there, and is one of the strongest aspects of his teachings present. Ive been trying to point this out for a while. 


Ironically, coupling "the deepest teachings" with guilt, elitism, arrogance, and consdescening attitdue is a a recipe for disaster, and couldnt be farther from the "maturity" hes looking for

[Leo Gura]

8 hours ago, ivankiss said:

I often feel like you are assuming that I am dumb.

That's fair. I do do that.

[Inliytened1]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's fair. I do do that.

Shaddup.  You are just pixels and the rest is up to us to interpret.  

Edited January 25, 2023 by Inliytened1

[meta_male]

8 hours ago, thepixelmonk said:

Yeah this is projection.

Sure? Because I sometimes also get the feeling he assumes you guys are dumb

[Leo Gura]

The reason I do that is because I deal with a lot of dumb people who misunderstand my ideas.

It's not an excuse, but I've def been jaded by all the dumb comments I've read over the years.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Leo Gura

[LastThursday]

11 hours ago, ivankiss said:

And what I noticed is that what puts them off, is indeed your attitude. The way you're presenting the information. Not the information itself.

One of the hardest things to do is to separate the content from the delivery. Most of a lay audience, or even advanced audience will find it hard to do this. I think that's why people glom on to certain teachers, because they have a delivery that suits them, and maybe even in spite of their teachings.

It's only when you start hearing the same message from many different sources, does the delivery begin to matter less.

In my subjective experience Leo has a defensive quality to his delivery, as if he's constantly under attack and he has to protect himself. He leverages that as a kind of rhetorical device in lot of his videos. I think that defensiveness also affects other aspects of his delivery. I don't know what you think Leo? I could be way off the mark.

[cjoseph90]

I can resonate with what the o.p is saying here and i agree. I understand Leos teaching style and that he deals with a lot of low consciousness comments ect. But yes sometimes i get triggered by his attitude, especially when his message is being more loving to others. Its not his words per se but the way he says it.

For example most of man kind is still in the dark ages, and living from ego. What bugs me is leos harsh, condescending tone, and judging attitude of others for example their lifestyle choices such as drinking ect

[zurew]

1 hour ago, LastThursday said:

One of the hardest things to do is to separate the content from the delivery.

The aesthetic of a message and the delivery matters a lot more than most people here think. We are literally pschologically wired in a way, not to seek truth, but to seek whatever that serve our survival / keep us alive.  Most people who did a good job influencing people with their teachings and messages weren't successful because they delivered something totally unique, but mostly because they created a carefully designed narrative around it and they created a very good package.

[ivankiss]

I feel like what you're getting with Leo is kind of a rude awakening. And yes, that might just be what some people need, and there are definitely some 'dumb' people out there too, who need an occasional zen slap or two. 

But in general, I just don't think it's a good look. It takes away from the quality of the content. It could all be more professional and grounded.

I also understand where the defensiveness is coming from. It's not easy to present groundbreaking information. Of course you're going to feel attacked and looked at as some crazy woo woo guy who's way out there. I find myself in that very same position often, when talking about this stuff to 'normies'. But I think this is something that can be transcended. You can be confident and stand for Truth, even if you're talking to people who are clueless. It has more to do with your ability to communicate than their ability to comprehend.

I think actualized.org could appeal to a wider audience and be easier to digest if these little things were worked on a bit. And beyond that, more mature users and followers could give this some attention too. It's something we all deal with, at some point.

[LastThursday]

@zurew I totally agree. Leaders need charisma and vision which is all about delivery. If you're looking for Leo to lead (or to be an authority) then of course his delivery matters, which is what the OP is about.

I would say spirituality and self-development is less about people's delivery and more about the message being delivered. For example Sadhguru and Leo say a lot of the same things, but the delivery couldn't be more different; they're both worth listening to. The expression "Don't judge a book by its cover" says it well.

[ivankiss]

I suppose the key word here is (self)judgement. That's the root of the 'issue'.

[flowboy]

We have this running joke "Let's watch Leo, I feel like getting yelled at"

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The reason I do that is because I deal with a lot of dumb people who misunderstand my ideas.

It's not an excuse, but I've def been jaded by all the dumb comments I've read over the years.

I get that, but the dumb people will never get your work anyway, so why talk to them? Could it work to mentally be talking more to the people who do get it?

[LastThursday]

22 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

But I think this is something that can be transcended. You can be confident and stand for Truth, even if you're talking to people who are clueless.

Something we should all aspire too. Even clueless people will be impressed by the confidence (and delivery).

[Rafael Thundercat]

For me i think like this:  I come for Truth. I know people in my personal life that have a very sweet and calm, non arrogant way of delivering,  but most of what they deliver is pure bullshit. If what one is saying is true I better no let the style of their speaking to disctract me from it.  If you go in a Amazonian Shaman, he will sing stuff in a language you dont even understand, so, will you be distracted with your non-undestranding of the language and be focused on your awareness or will you be trying in vain to translate the language. Same with leo videos. I ignore the aggresive posture and focus on what is being said. At least the man speak with passion. Sometimes we confuse passionate speaking with arrogance. 

[zurew]

49 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

If you're looking for Leo to lead (or to be an authority) then of course his delivery matters, which is what the OP is about.

I think it matters in other times too. If you are unique to a subject, in this case to spirituality, then you could get very easily repelled from the subject if the delivery is pretty off , and people who get repelled from it will associate the quality of delivery with the quality of the subject/message.

49 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

I would say spirituality and self-development is less about people's delivery and more about the message being delivered.

Ideally it would be, but thats not how humans work and think. We definitely care about the delivery and we definitely care about the integrity and the character of the messenger. A very easy way to demonstrate it: Would you listen to a spiritual teacher, who is publicly known for rapeing kids, and for torturing humans or Imagine getting introduced to spirituality by that spiritual teacher.

49 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

For example Sadhguru and Leo say a lot of the same things, but the delivery couldn't be more different; they're both worth listening to

Yes, but the reason why its worth listening to both of them (even if the message is the same )is because us listeners expect something new to gain from the same message if its delivered by a different messenger and style. The same fact/message could be put into a 100 different context, and the context that it will be put into will be depended on the delivery style of the messenger.

+ I would add here, that the very reason why teachers should be very careful about the quality of their delivery, is because most of the time, they are not in a completely unique field, but in a field where there are a lot of teachers. - so in better cases people will listen to others in the same field, or in worst case they won't ever listen to anyone who are associated with that field. - so at the end of the day these teachers lose their ability to give their unique insights and perspective.

That being said, I agree with the idea, that we should strive towards being only focused on the message, and thats a skill that can be improved for sure, but this thread is about how Leo (as a teacher) could improve his delivery.

Edited January 25, 2023 by zurew