What is the optimal diet for human beings?

[Someone here]

@Michael569  hi ,hope you are doing well. .I have a question:

as far as science can prove, what is the healthiest diet? carnivore?  Keto? All fruits?Vegetarian? Or something else ?

I understand that there is quite a bit of controversy amongst nutritionists to this question, and that diets can vary from person to person based upon genetics and medical issues. With that being said, as far as modern science/medicine can prove, what is the healthiest diet? I have read numerous articles on this subject ranging from the Atkins Diet to vegetarianism with only one thing in common, they all believe they provide the guidelines for the healthiest diet.

As far as science can prove, what is the healthiest diet?

The only thing I got clarity about  as a general rule is that  I should avoid processed foods and eat things that are simple and don't have too many preservatives .and that The bulk of the diet should be plant based. 

Can you provide more general rules or guidelines?  Or can you give to me the right diet for me specifically? I'm trying to lose belly fat but I have another problem ..which is that I don't get easily full ..sometimes I eat dinner three times in a matter of two hours ..and still go to bed with trembling stomach. How do I feel full for longer hours ?

Thanks. 

[Jannes]

There isn’t THE perfect diet. Everybody has different genetics and needs. And a diet also has to be enjoyable to work. 

In your case because you want to loose fat a high protein diet and low calorie artificial sweetened food will be healthy for you. Not because these foods are generally healthy but because being overweight is more unhealthy and these foods help with weight loss. Just one example of how nutrition isn’t so black and white. 

I think the general trend though is as much unprocessed food as possible with lots of fruits and veggies and in such selection that you get your essential micros and macronutrients.

Edited January 22, 2023 by Jannes

[Someone here]

32 minutes ago, Jannes said:

There isn’t THE perfect diet. Everybody has different genetics and needs. And a diet also has to be enjoyable to work. 

I know .I already said that in OP.

33 minutes ago, Jannes said:

In your case because you want to loose fat a high protein diet and low calorie artificial sweetened food will be healthy for you. Not because these foods are generally healthy but because being overweight is more unhealthy and these foods help with weight loss. Just one example of how nutrition isn’t so black and white. 

But as I said I struggle with constant hunger . If I eat low Carb (let's say a salad with Tuna ) I don't feel full for more than 1 hour and then I start craving high calorie  foods like Pizza.

36 minutes ago, Jannes said:

I think the general trend though is as much unprocessed food as possible with lots of fruits and veggies and in such selection that you get your essential micros and macronutrients.

Im already trying to add more fresh fruits and vegetables . I eat breakfast cereal with fruits .but it doesn't give me enough energy to last me throughout the day until lunch time .

I guess my whole problem is as follows:

I need to eat to low calorie foods to lose that ugly belly ..but at the same time I feel hungry on a low calorie diet . 

[Jannes]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

I know .I already said that in OP.

You are right sorry.

Quote

I guess my whole problem is as follows:

I need to eat to low calorie foods to lose that ugly belly ..but at the same time I feel hungry on a low calorie diet . 

High calories colerates with high satiety. But it’s not 1 to 1. You can eat the same amounts of calories with different foods and some will give you more satiety then others. Look up satiety index.

http://www.ernaehrungsdenkwerkstatt.de/fileadmin/user_upload/EDWText/TextElemente/Ernaehrungswissenschaft/Naehrstoffe/Saettigung_Lebensmittel_Satiety_Index.pdf

Have you actually ever tried to get full on unprocessed foods? 

Also increasing your energy usage of the day is easier then reducing the amounts of calories you eat. Maybe set a goal of 10.000 steps a day.

[Javfly33]

7 hours ago, Someone here said:

But as I said I struggle with constant hunger . If I eat low Carb (let's say a salad with Tuna ) I don't feel full for more than 1 hour and then I start craving high calorie  foods like Pizza.

The whole issue is that you assume you have to feel 'full' after eating.

Do fasts and you realize hunger is completely in your mind. Chances are your body is starved of nutrients, vitamins and minerals, not of calories.

 

[AJBrew]

Hands down to best universal diet for everyone is an anti-inflammatory diet, and yes like Jannes mentioned above it comes down to your genetics.

Especially if you have any autoimmune issues, then you might have to get creative with what works for you but generally speaking you want to limit the amount of inflammation in your body as much as possible with organic clean foods, reduced simple carbs and lots of veggies.

[Someone here]

11 hours ago, Jannes said:

You are right sorry.

High calories colerates with high satiety. But it’s not 1 to 1. You can eat the same amounts of calories with different foods and some will give you more satiety then others. Look up satiety index.

http://www.ernaehrungsdenkwerkstatt.de/fileadmin/user_upload/EDWText/TextElemente/Ernaehrungswissenschaft/Naehrstoffe/Saettigung_Lebensmittel_Satiety_Index.pdf

Have you actually ever tried to get full on unprocessed foods? 

Also increasing your energy usage of the day is easier then reducing the amounts of calories you eat. Maybe set a goal of 10.000 steps a day.

I think there is a relationship  between calories and satiety.  The more calorie dense the food is..the less you gonna eat before you get full . And again the whole problem is I don't get full easily even if I eat giant ass meals like grilled chicken and potatoes. 

As far as exercises..I don't have enough energy or mood to workout because I'm busy with university projects and assignments. 

I will check the link you attached. Thanks .

[Someone here]

6 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

The whole issue is that you assume you have to feel 'full' after eating.

Do fasts and you realize hunger is completely in your mind. Chances are your body is starved of nutrients, vitamins and minerals, not of calories.

 

Of course I have to be full after eating ..otherwise what's the point of eating ? It's to get rid of the hunger .I'm not aware of any other purpose lol. 

If I eat half my plate and I feel full I should stop eating .but if I eat my whole plate and do not  feel full then I need an additional plate .

[Someone here]

4 hours ago, AJBrew said:

Hands down to best universal diet for everyone is an anti-inflammatory diet, and yes like Jannes mentioned above it comes down to your genetics.

Especially if you have any autoimmune issues, then you might have to get creative with what works for you but generally speaking you want to limit the amount of inflammation in your body as much as possible with organic clean foods, reduced simple carbs and lots of veggies.

I'm trying to eat all organic.  I'm trying to rely on veggies and fruits .but it really doesn't satisfy my hunger like a juicy steak. Or white rice with fish or chicken soup etc . 

So the dilemma I'm dealing with is the need to reduce my calorie intake and eating less calorie dense foods to get rid of my belly fat while at the same time struggling with "hunger attacks " too often .

[bazera]

A great TED talk about that

[UDT]

@Someone here Reverse engineer what the human digestive tract is supposed to digest 

[Michael569]

@Someone here hey, thanks for the tag. 

There are is no simple way to answer this question. 

23 hours ago, Someone here said:

as far as science can prove, what is the healthiest diet? carnivore?  Keto? All fruits?Vegetarian? Or something else ?

Guidelines diet has BY FAR the strongest evidence behind. You could say it  is a variation of Mediterranean diet

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/528193/Eatwell_guide_colour.pdf

Where chronic disease risk minimisation for general public is concerned, this is it. Nothing else comes even toe-level close to the magnitude of evidence for the above. Ofcourse anecdotally people will benefit on other diets too. Also, you can modify this diet to meet your ethical or environmental needs (e.g. plant based, vegetarian, kosher, adventist etc.) 

23 hours ago, Someone here said:

Or can you give to me the right diet for me specifically? I'm trying to lose belly fat

This is a very different question. The answer to this is, any diet that helps you eat less than you burn. Weight loss can be achieve on keto, carnivore, vegan, paleo, raw...anything. What you need to be concerned with is sustainable weight loss and long term potential health consequences o diets that alongside weight loss cause nutritional deficiencies, wasting and hormonal problems. 

In addition, certain diets, while helping with weight loss might have adverse health consequences if pursued for too long - such as the acceleration of atherosclerosis, increasing risk of colon cancer, devastating microbiome etc. 

You always gotta weight out the short term pros (such as quick weight loss) vs long term cons 

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Michael569

[UnbornTao]

The most optimal one in the long term is likely a whole-foods, mostly plant based diet with some animal products, especially when dealing with deficiencies.

Source: Michael Greger's work and Healing With Whole Foods.

Edited January 23, 2023 by UnbornTao

[Someone here]

2 hours ago, Michael569 said:

@Someone here hey, thanks for the tag. 

There are is no simple way to answer this question. 

Guidelines diet has BY FAR the strongest evidence behind. You could say it  is a variation of Mediterranean diet

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/528193/Eatwell_guide_colour.pdf

Where chronic disease risk minimisation for general public is concerned, this is it. Nothing else comes even toe-level close to the magnitude of evidence for the above. Ofcourse anecdotally people will benefit on other diets too. Also, you can modify this diet to meet your ethical or environmental needs (e.g. plant based, vegetarian, kosher, adventist etc.) 

This is a very different question. The answer to this is, any diet that helps you eat less than you burn. Weight loss can be achieve on keto, carnivore, vegan, paleo, raw...anything. What you need to be concerned with is sustainable weight loss and long term potential health consequences o diets that alongside weight loss cause nutritional deficiencies, wasting and hormonal problems. 

In addition, certain diets, while helping with weight loss might have adverse health consequences if pursued for too long - such as the acceleration of atherosclerosis, increasing risk of colon cancer, devastating microbiome etc. 

You always gotta weight out the short term pros (such as quick weight loss) vs long term cons 

Thanks for your response.  I will definitely check the link 

But bear with me please, I have few questions ...

I know that We obviously are not able to create a "perfect" diet at this point in time but I was wondering if there is a recent or running list of what is required in the "perfect" diet as far as what we know about nutrition today?

Obviously there is conflicting research in the field so it wouldn't be a 100% consensus but is there one that is accepted by the majority?


Others have pointed out that I should focus on the nutrition not the calories. But I said that I feel hungry on a low calorie diet ..so how can I switch to veggies and salads and survive without carbs ?


I read an article online  which says The "requirement" for the "perfect" diet is a wide variety of whole plant foods. Fruits, vegetables, dark leafy greens, intact whole grains, legumes, nuts and seeds. Lots of variety.
Ok sure?  Humans are omnivores.  You can live on fast food or be a vegan if you want, but it's far from ideal.  The fact that you have to supplement B12, omega 3s, etc. means your diet isn't optimal?

Also are Humans "natural vegetarians"? as claimed by some people. I mean  There is a reason humans have adaptations to meat consumption that primates do not have.  Our guts are much shorter than all other primates, we don't have a large colon to digest fiber, we have adaptations to our teeth to chew through meat better, and we require a much more calorically dense diet than most other animals on the planet.  We can't live on a low fat, low starch, low protein, and low sugar diet (all at once) like all other primates can.

 

 

3 hours ago, UDT said:

@Someone here Reverse engineer what the human digestive tract is supposed to digest 

I dont understand what does that mean .

6 hours ago, bazera said:

A great TED talk about that

Thanks .Will watch it .

3 minutes ago, UnbornTao said:

Likely in the long term the best is a whole-foods, mostly plant based diet with some animal products, especially when dealing with deficiencies. My source is Michael Greger.

Most animal products are filed and injected with artificial hormones and contain high levels of heavy metals .

Edited January 23, 2023 by Someone here

[AJBrew]

11 hours ago, Someone here said:

I'm trying to eat all organic.  I'm trying to rely on veggies and fruits .but it really doesn't satisfy my hunger like a juicy steak. Or white rice with fish or chicken soup etc . 

So the dilemma I'm dealing with is the need to reduce my calorie intake and eating less calorie dense foods to get rid of my belly fat while at the same time struggling with "hunger attacks " too often .

 I heavily recommend you to eat meat. Just meat that is free from antibiotics and steroids and is organic if possible; also with eggs.

[Jannes]

 

5 hours ago, Someone here said:

Also are Humans "natural vegetarians"? as claimed by some people. I mean  There is a reason humans have adaptations to meat consumption that primates do not have.  Our guts are much shorter than all other primates, we don't have a large colon to digest fiber, we have adaptations to our teeth to chew through meat better, and we require a much more calorically dense diet than most other animals on the planet.  We can't live on a low fat, low starch, low protein, and low sugar diet (all at once) like all other primates can. 

Our gut is different from all animals altogether. We adapted to eating cooked food. We are cookivores. 

[Someone here]

21 hours ago, AJBrew said:

 I heavily recommend you to eat meat. Just meat that is free from antibiotics and steroids and is organic if possible; also with eggs.

It's tough to find such meat . And it's expensive. Most animal products are filled with artificial hormones and other kind of crap. They feed chickens corns and that's not healthy. Even then I can't easily find chicken or meat that is organic fed.

[Someone here]

17 hours ago, Jannes said:

We are cookivores. 

Lol

[Michael569]

23 hours ago, Someone here said:

if there is a recent or running list of what is required in the "perfect" diet as far as what we know about nutrition today?

yah, just look up dietary guidelines in your own country. Usually there are documents that break everything down including portions, types of foods and frequency of eating. What I shared is UK guidelines but they are pretty similar everywhere and considering that most public health policies are results of individual reviews by teams of researchers, it tells you that guidelines diets really are probably the most beneficial for us. 

23 hours ago, Someone here said:

but is there one that is accepted by the majority?

By the scientific majority of people who actually do the research? Sure, see above.

By the quacks on the internet who talk nonsense and never crack open an actual meta-analysis? Of course not but they will say whatever makes them money or whatever sells. 

23 hours ago, Someone here said:

. But I said that I feel hungry on a low calorie diet

the problem is that you are not eating enough not that your diet is suboptimal. If you are hungry, eat more. Easy as that., 

23 hours ago, Someone here said:

The fact that you have to supplement B12, omega 3s, etc. means your diet isn't optimal?

What does even "optimal" mean? Optimal for what? I don't see a problem with needing to supplement. There are diets that do not require supplementation but are probably (statistically) more harmful than diets that require supplementation. Just because a diet does not have B12, it does not mean it is unhealthy. Take advantage of the modern science and supplement. 

23 hours ago, Someone here said:

Also are Humans "natural vegetarians"? as claimed by some people

humans are natural omnivores. We are well adapted to eating meat but that's one of the reasons why it is causing health issues (antagonistic pleiotrophy) 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Michael569

[AJBrew]

57 minutes ago, Someone here said:

It's tough to find such meat . And it's expensive. Most animal products are filled with artificial hormones and other kind of crap. They feed chickens corns and that's not healthy. Even then I can't easily find chicken or meat that is organic fed.

Your not wrong, organic meat can be pretty expensive; organic eggs doesn't have to be. I have to look into this more also.