Borderline personality disorder and premature death

[Tyler Robinson]

Dr Grande says that people with borderline personality disorder are at an elevated risk of premature death. 

Not sure why he said this in this clip. Anyone has any experience with this to share and why do you think he said that. 

 

[flowboy]

I don't have experience with BPD in my personal life.

My best friend is a therapist who works mainly with BPD type patients though.

I will take the liberty of sharing why I think he said that.

I think he's just referring to the tendency to overreact to abandonment triggers and do something drastic like suicide, or reckless like drive drunk and crash.

Overall this clinical type view of BPD and similar disorders makes me sad.

It's like they are taking as much distance as they can from it.

Viewing them as aliens almost.

To be inspected in a lab coat.

 

I kind of get why.

If you don't dehumanize them, you might find out you have more in common with them than you would like.

 

"selfishness, ..."

What the fuck dude. These people are in massive pain and you're going to diagnose them with selfishness?

 

From my understanding, hearing and reading about these things, there's a direct correlation between BPD and growing up with an emotionally immature, abusive parent. Usually the mother is an unsafe character that they can not form a healthy attachment with. They had to be afraid of the mother's mood swings. Nowhere to turn for safety and nurture.

And then still psychiatrists want to put them in a box and say "something's inherently wrong with you", and give them very superficial therapy like DBT. It's a travesty.

Edited January 20, 2023 by flowboy

[Tyler Robinson]

@flowboy  I'm a borderline personality disorder (BPD) patient so I'm looking for suitable empathetic therapists. 

Thank you for the kind response. It means a lot. 

 

[flowboy]

@Tyler Robinson  That's great. Keep looking until you find one that feels good. Don't settle for less!

I'd avoid cold, analytical jerkoffs like in the video like the plague.

 

I think my video is pretty good, but also this guy's videos about finding therapists are great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWvK-EX6jMk

His channel is a goldmine.

Definitely check it out

Edited January 20, 2023 by flowboy

[SeaMonster]

On 1/20/2023 at 5:00 AM, flowboy said:

What the fuck dude. These people are in massive pain and you're going to diagnose them with selfishness?

The only way to get better is to face and accept the truth of one's own behaviors -- without harsh self-judgment (i.e. by understanding that all behaviors have a cause.)   There is nothing wrong with seeing selfishness or manipulative behavior in oneself if you remove moral self-condemnation from the equation and focus on the ROOT CAUSES of the behavior.  The problem is reacting defensively to things that need to be contemplated objectively.

Also, looking for an ideal therapist is counterproductive because it plays into the BPD idealization/rejection dynamic, so it's not particularly helpful advice.

I think you're overreacting to an informational video as if it's the same situation as a one-on-one therapy session.

Edited January 22, 2023 by SeaMonster

[Tyler Robinson]

@SeaMonster maybe you shouldn't have snap judgements and opinions on people who you've never met in real life. Keep that in mind. 

[SeaMonster]

2 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

maybe you shouldn't have snap judgements and opinions on people who you've never met in real life. Keep that in mind. 

Like he did to the psychotherapist in the video?

[Tyler Robinson]

1 hour ago, SeaMonster said:

Like he did to the psychotherapist in the video?

I did not start the thread to argue with you. This is not a contest for who is right or who is wrong. Don't turn this into an ego battle if you have nothing important to contribute. Sorry but you're not exactly helpful. 

[integral]

Chronic stress  = Premature aging

Chronic stress also makes the body deplete nutrients that would other wise go to skin hair and nails or other organs, so this creates a depletion of nutrients in the body and the body is starved as its burning to much fuel. = Premature aging.

Edited January 22, 2023 by integral

[Tyler Robinson]

1 hour ago, integral said:

Chronic stress  = Premature aging

Chronic stress also makes the body deplete nutrients that would other wise go to skin hair and nails or other organs, so this creates a depletion of nutrients in the body and the body is starved as its burning to much fuel. = Premature aging.

Makes sense fishy. 

[ZenAlex]

On 1/20/2023 at 10:00 AM, flowboy said:

I don't have experience with BPD in my personal life.

My best friend is a therapist who works mainly with BPD type patients though.

I will take the liberty of sharing why I think he said that.

I think he's just referring to the tendency to overreact to abandonment triggers and do something drastic like suicide, or reckless like drive drunk and crash.

Overall this clinical type view of BPD and similar disorders makes me sad.

It's like they are taking as much distance as they can from it.

Viewing them as aliens almost.

To be inspected in a lab coat.

 

I kind of get why.

If you don't dehumanize them, you might find out you have more in common with them than you would like.

 

"selfishness, ..."

What the fuck dude. These people are in massive pain and you're going to diagnose them with selfishness?

 

From my understanding, hearing and reading about these things, there's a direct correlation between BPD and growing up with an emotionally immature, abusive parent. Usually the mother is an unsafe character that they can not form a healthy attachment with. They had to be afraid of the mother's mood swings. Nowhere to turn for safety and nurture.

And then still psychiatrists want to put them in a box and say "something's inherently wrong with you", and give them very superficial therapy like DBT. It's a travesty.

He's not diagnosing anyone with selfishness, but people with Cluster B personality disorder tend to be quite self centered. It's just a fact.

People with BPD often have Narcissistic traits as well. They tend to be manipulative.

[ZenAlex]

On 1/22/2023 at 2:45 PM, Tyler Robinson said:

@SeaMonster maybe you shouldn't have snap judgements and opinions on people who you've never met in real life. Keep that in mind. 

He's not wrong though. 

[flowboy]

On 03/02/2023 at 6:22 PM, ZenAlex said:

He's not diagnosing anyone with selfishness, but people with Cluster B personality disorder tend to be quite self centered. It's just a fact.

People with BPD often have Narcissistic traits as well. They tend to be manipulative.

Everyone who is in pain is self-centered.

It's not an aspect of a "diseased" psyche that other people get to pretend they are clean from.

What people don't understand is that this type of disorder is basically like having chronic pain.

There is a chronic emotional pain at the root of it.

It's always there but it is repressed, not conscious.

If I put screws in your thumbs and clamps on your nipples, you're going to be selfish too.

[Gesundheit2]

15 hours ago, flowboy said:

If I put screws in your thumbs and clamps on your nipples, you're going to be selfish too.

That's not a valid metaphor because my body is my personal property, but your thoughts and words are not. If my thoughts and words are hurting you, maybe that's on you. It could be on me, but when you're acting excessively sensitive, you can't deny you have some work to do.

[flowboy]

@Gesundheit2  lol, this is not about me I don't have BPD.

Yes, someone else's words can hurt someone with BPD more easily, that does mean they have work to do.

Classifying them as inherently selfish is unhelpful.

The reason they are more sensitive is because their system is overloaded with emotional pain.

Not from your thoughts and words, but from their childhood.

With that amount of overload of chronic emotional pain, they are going to be sensitive and selfish, like anyone else would who is always in a large amount of pain, be it physical or emotional. Hence the thumb screws example.

[Gesundheit2]

@flowboy That's still not valid because it disregards personal responsibility and takes it out of the equation.

Imagine putting two people with BPD in the same room. Which one of them will be the victim? And which one the villain? You will probably say that I'm the villain for putting them in the same room, but in real life that's not an unlikely event. In real life you meet all sorts of people. And if you're going to be triggered by everything you can't control about other people, then maybe you should curl up in your bed and not socialize at all. You can't force people to fit your expectations. It just doesn't work like that.

I know you don't have BPD. I'm talking about people in general, including and especially the ones with BPD. so pardon my usage of pronouns.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Gesundheit2

[flowboy]

@Gesundheit2  Good example of the harsh, unfeeling, unempathetic attitude that I'm saying mental health professionals shouldn't have.

What you write seems to be from a place of evaluating who's wrong, who to judge, whose fault it is.

You can do that, it doesn't interest me very much but you can run that mental experiment if you want.

My thesis is that mental health professionals / authorities should not have that attitude.

Look for who's wrong all you want, I'm just not speaking from that perspective because I don't see the point.

The situation is what it is, people are what they are because of what happened when they were developing.

From that perspective, indeed, personal responsibility falls away but healing opportunities open.

I agree that people have their personal responsibility to "do the work", seek out therapy and do it, yes.

Can I put responsibility on them to not be a certain way? To not react emotionally to this or that?

I'd love to, but it just makes no sense. These impulses come from a place that is prior to will.

Edited February 6, 2023 by flowboy

[Gesundheit2]

@flowboy Nonsense.

[flowboy]

Okay, discussion over then.

[ZenAlex]

On 04/02/2023 at 6:59 PM, flowboy said:

Everyone who is in pain is self-centered.

It's not an aspect of a "diseased" psyche that other people get to pretend they are clean from.

What people don't understand is that this type of disorder is basically like having chronic pain.

There is a chronic emotional pain at the root of it.

It's always there but it is repressed, not conscious.

If I put screws in your thumbs and clamps on your nipples, you're going to be selfish too.

It's not as simple as that. The level of self-centeredness you're going to have doesn't necessary increase and decrease proportionately with how in pain you are at all. 

He didn't say being self-centred means you're  a bad person necessarily, but bad behaviour is often associated with it, such as exploiting and ruining other people for your own benefit without taking them into consideration. THere's plenty of people in pain who have been traumatized that aren't self-centered people, and what they go through often leads them to become more empathetic towards others.