Self Help is about Getting Laid

[Tyler Robinson]

2 minutes ago, bloomer said:

I've been told I'm quite attractive by a few girls, I'm pretty tall. I workout. I just don't really pursue women or get out enough. Maybe the fact that I'm not getting enough women is part of the reason I've been drawn to think about this topic. But I think this is more of what I mentioned in the previous post of shaming and silence by questioning a mans sexual virility. Also how exactly would what I'm saying rationalize my frustration? So you're saying I'm sexually frustrated and because I'm frustrated this is my world view, ok, but how does my world view rationalize my sexual frustration? How am I supposed to feel any better because this is my world view, is my question. 

Why would you assume this rationale that all of self help is driven by feminine idealization of men, if you were already satisfied with women? 

Not this specific post. But your other posts on Andrew Tate where you constantly try to drive the point that men are being feminized and that we need a Tate like figure because somehow in your opinion women are eroding masculinity, a man satisfied with women would never talk like that. 

Just because you get women to like you doesn't necessarily imply that you are satisfied with them. I suspect some resentment inside you against women from the nature of your posting. Nothing wrong with it but you must realize that your resentful bias is coloring your worldview. 

 

Step out of your resentment with women and you'll see women live just like men, we don't drive you to become better or worse. 

We pick men for our survival. You pick a better career for survival. 

Everything is fundamentally driven by survival. It's not hard at all. 

You find something and anything to pin blame on and then justify why some outcome exists. 

Separate phenomenon from outcome. Andrew Tate is a phenomenon, not an outcome.. 

Survival is a phenomenon and society is an outcome. 

Don't put it on women, your core masculinity guides you to survive as a man.

 

[Tyler Robinson]

This is not a Tier 2 discussion. It's more of a disguised form of a subtle blame game. 

Nothing to gain here. So I'm leaving this discussion. 

Goodluck. 

 

[bloomer]

@Tyler Robinson

Just now, Tyler Robinson said:

Why would you assume this rationale that all of self help is driven by feminine idealization of men, if you were already satisfied with women? 

As a result of my understanding of evolution and philosophy. Lots of people say the meaning of life is to have children and to procreate. That's why we're all here, everything we are is a result of breeding and gene selection through competition. Which determines who gets to breed and what genes are passed on. Human beings too are animals, for this reason we have animalistic needs and cravings. I do think there's some truth to your question that if you were satisfied sexually why would you even bother to think or analyse the human condition and sexual selection. Men who are sexually fulfilled really don't care to analyse and ask these questions because they have no need. It's men who have a problem and then ask why, that end up finding the truth in an attempt to fix their problem. But just because you're satiated and oblivious to the reality doesn't mean the reality does not exist.

Just now, Tyler Robinson said:

Not this specific post. But your other posts on Andrew Tate where you constantly try to drive the point that men are being feminized and that we need a Tate like figure because somehow in your opinion women are eroding masculinity, a man satisfied with women would never talk like that.

What do you mean by satisfied with women? If you mean a man who has sex, plenty of men do talk like that and have throughout all of human history, only recently do we have progressive ideology where this line of rhetoric is controversial. Or are you saying Andrew Tate or other men like him don't get laid? But yeah my post history does show that I believe men are being feminized because they are.

Just now, Tyler Robinson said:

Just because you get women to like you doesn't necessarily imply that you are satisfied with them. I suspect some resentment inside you against women from the nature of your posting. Nothing wrong with it but you must realize that your resentful bias is coloring your worldview. 

Oh okay, this is why I need to read the whole post before I reply lol. I go paragraph by paragraph responding. Yeah maybe I am resentful. I do have resentment towards men as well, but because I don't want to fuck men I care less about it. When you analyse human beings from a sort of detached anthropological perspective and look at them as sort of animals it can breed a resentment and cynicism. For example my belief in the idea of romantic love sort of disappeared. So it probably does color my world view you're right. But I think it doesn't mean my world view is wrong, it's just a factor that lead to me arriving at this point where I view the world this way. If that makes sense. 

3 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

We pick men for our survival. You pick a better career for survival. 

Everything is fundamentally driven by survival. It's not hard at all. 

You find something and anything to pin blame on and then justify why some outcome exists. 

Separate phenomenon from outcome. Andrew Tate is a phenomenon, not an outcome.. 

Survival is a phenomenon and society is an outcome. 

Don't put it on women, your core masculinity guides you to survive as a man.

We dominate and survive to ensure we pass on our genes, then we stay alive long enough so our offspring can survive, then we die. Many species, for example the male black widow spider, will throws itself willing into the females mouth after copulation because it's need to survive becomes superfluous because it doesn't have much of a role in making sure it's offspring survives. It's best role after copulating is to give the female nutrition lol. So if a black widow male spider became aware of this reality, wouldn't it be rational for the spider to be resentful towards its nature and the biological condition?

[bloomer]

@Tyler Robinson

That's a shame I was hoping for a reply to my last post because I thought we were getting somewhere

2 minutes ago, Tyler Robinson said:

Nothing to gain here. So I'm leaving this discussion. 

Maybe for you but I was gaining insight lol

[Matt23]

3 hours ago, bloomer said:

If men are in a constant need for sexual satiation

I would say this is overblowing it.  The word "constant".  

There are many motivators for growth.  Pain and suffering being, in my experience, one of the larger ones.  And no, not all pain comes from lack of sex lol, that's just one slice of the pie of pain.  

I might agree or see your point in a more abstract, theoretical, and roundabout way if you're talking about sex being the prime motivator in an evolutionary sense.  As in not ones felt or conscious sense of motivation, but a motivator that's so fundamental it is impossible to detect consciously since there is so much complexity and chains of causation that separate "the evolutionary mechanism of procreation" from ones conscious experience.  So, like, basically everything comes back to sex, even desires and behaviors to be celibate arise from the sex impulse.... somehow.  You chopping off your genitals comes back to sex.  You walking your dog.  You buying a video game.  You reading the Bible.  

But even then.... I'd not 100% agree or be certain about that, but I'd find it more plausible than saying that people's primary/only conscious (or felt sense) motivator is sex.  

 

Can you clarify if you mean sex is people's only motivator or if it's simply their main motivator? 

[roopepa]

It's not necessarily that women choose high status men but that men often believe that's what women do. Conditioning. It's the "you're never good enough for the world" belief.

3 hours ago, bloomer said:

What are the best ways in which you can still find motivation without deluding yourself into thinking it's about some greater purpose?

Not motivation perhaps. Inspiration is more aligned.

Why is sex and intimacy sought? It's the belief that happiness or good feeling comes from these things. So happiness is what's always really looked for.

[bloomer]

@Matt23

2 hours ago, Matt23 said:

I would say this is overblowing it.  The word "constant".  

Sure, I'll be more clear then, from the time I boy reaches puberty and becomes a young man till he ages enough that his sex drive begins to plummet. Lets say 14 - 70 generally, boys to men get flooded with hormones and a sex drive that makes them want more than they can ever have. Ofcourse a sexuals exist but they typically have a hormonal problem. 

2 hours ago, Matt23 said:

There are many motivators for growth.  Pain and suffering being, in my experience, one of the larger ones.  And no, not all pain comes from lack of sex lol, that's just one slice of the pie of pain.  

Obviously not all pain comes from lack of sex lol. 

2 hours ago, Matt23 said:

I might agree or see your point in a more abstract, theoretical, and roundabout way if you're talking about sex being the prime motivator in an evolutionary sense. 

Yes this is my main point. I agree that in many instances the prime motivator may be difficult to detect given the disconnect from arousal and sex being in the conscious mind. 

2 hours ago, Matt23 said:

So, like, basically everything comes back to sex, even desires and behaviors to be celibate arise from the sex impulse.... somehow.  You chopping off your genitals comes back to sex. 

In so far as any trait doesn't lead to breeding those traits will eventually be breed out of the gene pool. So those desires in some way help your genes pass on. There are several ways you can pass on your genes, you can pass on your own genes directly, you can pass on your families genes such as your brothers or sisters childrens by providing or protecting them. Or you can pass on your groups genes. Two typical Englishmen for instance have a lot more genetic similarity than a typical Englishman and a typical Frenchman. It's been shown that typically even friends have similar genes. 

2 hours ago, Matt23 said:

But even then.... I'd not 100% agree or be certain about that, but I'd find it more plausible than saying that people's primary/only conscious (or felt sense) motivator is sex.  

I think the primary motivator for men is sex. But there are other lesser motivators that server in the grand scheme to increase the chances of having sex. In so far as they don't they're selected out of the gene pool. 

2 hours ago, Matt23 said:

Can you clarify if you mean sex is people's only motivator or if it's simply their main motivator? 

I mean it as the main motivator and I appreciate you took the time to read and understand my point and ask me the question so thank you

@roopepa

2 hours ago, roopepa said:

Not motivation perhaps. Inspiration is more aligned.

Why is sex and intimacy sought? It's the belief that happiness or good feeling comes from these things. So happiness is what's always really looked for.

This is a much nicer way to put it and I might start framing it this way more in my mind yes. But a big part of what makes people happy is having status (upper Maslows needs) and having sex. 

[Basman]

Quote

So when you do actual understand the main driving force behind the desire to self improve and as a result become naturally demotivated. What are the best ways in which you can still find motivation without deluding yourself into thinking it's about some greater purpose? This question is mainly aimed at men

Usually, you are motivated to do something because you want the result, be it to get something or to avoid something (carrot or the stick). Why does an interest have to be connected to something big and vague like a "greater purpose"? I'm afraid I might sound like I'm minimizing, but aren't you just overthinking it?

Just be honest with yourself. You don't need an excuse to help yourself.

[flowboy]

7 hours ago, bloomer said:

I've been struggling to find any intrinsic ways to motivate myself. I read a book recently "The subtle art of not giving a fuck by Mark Manson". Since then it really helped me not to care about the fears and punishments. But it also took away me caring about the carrot as much. It's tough to be motivated when you don't care about the carrot or stick. I guess I want people to confirm my beliefs if they're right. I also secretly kind of want people to prove me wrong because I'm sick of not being motivated lol

That's very insightful and I appreciate the self reflection.

There's actually a lot of self help in the niche of getting motivated (Tony Robbins).

A dear friend of mine flew all the way from the Netherlands to New York in order to attend Tony Robbins for a 5 day seminar.

He got crazy motivated.

Back home, it was all gone within days.

My opinion is that people get motivation completely wrong.

Being motivated is a natural state.

Babies come out of the womb motivated.

Children have tons of energy which they need to let out by running after each other.

And they naturally get curious about stuff.

If their parents encourage and support that curiosity, and they have a happy childhood and adolescence, they will keep that motivation forever.

If something happens early on where someone learns: "I can't pursue my natural interest, I have to do something else."

That's when motivation gets blocked.

Or, more commonly, when the childhood is not so happy and there's a feeling of "Whatever I do, it won't work out anyway".

Motivation gets blocked.

 

Motivation is not something you acquire, rather you remove whatever shit is blocking the motivation that's already there.

That could mean, becoming more honest and realising that on some level, you don't want to do it, you want to do something else.

Or it could mean introspecting and realising that some feeling is in the way of it.

Hopelessness maybe, fear of failure, fear of success, lack of trust.

A sense of being stuck.

Or a false belief that what you really want has to wait, or is not possible.

Lack of agency, of control over one's life.

I'm just naming random examples.

Whatever it is, as long as you breathe, you will have plenty of natural motivation underneath all that shit.

[Rafael Thundercat]

Nice to see people responding @bloomer with courtesy and intention to offer value. I think and feel that we all shift to this vibe of uplifting each other instead of just trying to trigger responses, we can use the time and energy spent here to co-create goodness, and co-inspire each other to growth, understanding and clarity. I know is hard sometimes. But this post show that is possible. Than there in no need of Leo keeping being the ranger cop here in the Forum roads. That also cost energy  and time. 

[bloomer]

@Basman

3 hours ago, Basman said:

Usually, you are motivated to do something because you want the result, be it to get something or to avoid something (carrot or the stick). Why does an interest have to be connected to something big and vague like a "greater purpose"? I'm afraid I might sound like I'm minimizing, but aren't you just overthinking it?

Just be honest with yourself. You don't need an excuse to help yourself.

You're probably right. This is my curse, overthinking things that don't need to be over thought. For some reason even though you're probably right I still have a hard time accepting it. Life just seems so bland and pointless with that being the reality. I might have something wrong with me for thinking this way.

@flowboy

2 hours ago, flowboy said:

If something happens early on where someone learns: "I can't pursue my natural interest, I have to do something else."

What could that something be and how do you unblock it?

I don't know how to remove the shit blocking me. 

2 hours ago, flowboy said:

I'm just naming random examples.

They're all great examples. Thank you

@Rafael Thundercat

You're right friend, I do enjoy being a bit proactive just to get convos going but this thread has been helpful and a good vibe so I appreciate it guys ? 

I think my overthinking about the root of everything having to do with sex is probably due to some shit that's clogged up my motivation in life so Tyler is probably right in some way. I don't know ironically I'm going to need to give it some more thought tomorrow.

[flowboy]

7 hours ago, bloomer said:

What could that something be and how do you unblock it?

I don't know how to remove the shit blocking me. 

Well, only you can find out what it is, but you could start by identifying the feelings that you feel instead of motivation, and inquiring: is it familiar? When have I felt this way before? And when else? Etc.

It maybe comes across a bit weird, because your problem statement was initially "lack of motivation", and now I'm asking you to view it as "some unidentified feeling on top of my motivation".

[Eternal Unity]

lol

[roopepa]

14 hours ago, bloomer said:

But a big part of what makes people happy is having status (upper Maslows needs) and having sex. 

Nothing makes us happy. Happiness is what we are.

Why it seems like "fulfilling needs" makes us happy, is because the fullness we are cannot "join" thoughts or beliefs about lack. So when we experience something we desire, like sex, it seems like the good feeling comes from that thing... When it actually comes as thoughts about lacking what's wanted is not believed or appearing.

This is obvious as you can feel fulfilled or happy right here and now, even if there was no sex or "a need being fulfilled"... Just by letting go the discordant thought, by focusing on something else.

 

[Basman]

Quote

You're probably right. This is my curse, overthinking things that don't need to be over thought. For some reason even though you're probably right I still have a hard time accepting it. Life just seems so bland and pointless with that being the reality. I might have something wrong with me for thinking this way.

You don't have to accept anything. As long as you don't put down others you're good.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Basman

[LfcCharlie4]

On 1/19/2023 at 3:33 PM, Michael569 said:

Self-improvement is about so much more than that. 

• it's about becoming financially independent so that you don't have to slave your ass for a soul destroying corporation 
• it's about getting mastery over your own psyche so that you don;t become the slave to your urges and cravings like the majority of the society 
• it's about uncovering your passion and purpose and realising what are you supposed to do with your life - and all the self-help advice is then aimed at helping you be even better at that 
• it's aimed to help you avoid a live a life of mystery and depression 
• yes, partially it is also to secure a high-quality relationship/marriage and all the perks that come with that 
• it is also about bringing up tier 2 offspring 
• eventually you are supposed to transcend all of that and rise above it but you ain't getting there from ground zero. 

 

 

Agree with all the points except the last. 

I don't think we're ever meant to transcend but integrate spirituality into 'Self-Help' 

Personally don't believe meditating in the mountains is the height of existence (maybe for some personality types) 

Instead think the World needs more awakened / developed people in the thick of things & doing all of the bullets above 

I see that as the evolution of spirituality from being obscure to part of normal life (long way off) 

[Byun Sean]

If getting laid is your highest aspiration, you live a very empty and sad life.

[Danioover9000]

@bloomer

On 2023-01-19 at 0:51 PM, bloomer said:

Self help is a multi billion dollar industry. It's main target industry is men and it's focus is on ways for said men to increase their status. Why do men strive for status? Because women sexually select for status. If you remove the need to be sexually satiated, then you take away men's need to strive for status. So you place men in a situation where men aren't going to do anything. If you improve yourself but you get nothing from it, then why improve? If the improvement does nothing to increase your social status than the majority of men won't have the motivation and or discipline to bother. If men are in a constant need for sexual satiation then they will constantly be looking for ways to increase their status through the self improvement industry. So I believe that the primary motivation behind the vast majority of self improvement is men's attempts to sexually satiate themselves. Now to acknowledge that fact is to demotivate yourself and get in the way of your goal of increasing your status, as you'll naturally lose motivation if you think that the only reason you're doing what you're doing is to get status to get laid generally. So men typically have a need to construct rationale that they're actually self improving for some grand greater purpose. But as Leo pointed out in his most recent video in a quote at the start.

So when you do actual understand the main driving force behind the desire to self improve and as a result become naturally demotivated. What are the best ways in which you can still find motivation without deluding yourself into thinking it's about some greater purpose? This question is mainly aimed at men.

   This is such an over simplification of the self help industry I don't know where to begin addressing the problems. From the start it's mostly outcomes orientated, until eventually the person doing personal development discovers they can internally generate motivation. It just takes time and development, because all things that are good and are highly worthwhile, take time and effort to make.