Famous Cardiologist Truthbombs millions live on BBC

[zurew]

human report != evidence.

its interesting that for these twitter fighters its somehow make sense that 12+mil people have severe side effects from the vaccine, but at the same time they can't show any tangible evidence about it, just only reports. -again the demonstration of flawed epistemology.

[Leo Gura]

Here's a really simple way to understand this:

During the early peak of Covid there were so many corpses in hospitals that they had to order shipping containers to hold them all.

Where is this for all the vaccine deaths? Way more people have been vaccinated than got Covid, so there should be shipping containers full of vaxxed corpses.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Leo Gura

[bloomer]

@Leo Gura

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Here's the fundamental thing that all these vax skeptics are stupid on:

If you have 100 million people and 5% of them are known will die of some disease X in the next year, but if you inject those 100 million people with a poison that will kill only 4.9% of them and spare 0.1% from dying, then as matter of public policy you should inject 100 million with poison.

If you cannot wrap your mind around this, you have no business speaking on matters of politics and public health.

Yes I'm sure Leo you're much more knowledgeable than world leading cardiologist Aseem Malhotra. Who is it saving exactly, the average age of death from covid was literally higher than life expectancy, and now excess deaths across all age groups are higher than they ever were when covid was still a thing and no vax.

That argument makes literally no sense.

"Yayyy we stopped some old boomers dying from covid but now every age group is in massive excess death, but only in heavily vaxxed countries, but its definitely NOT the vax so don't even bother looking into it", If you cared about public health that much you would be marching in the streets demanding governments actually look into what is going on rather than just ignoring it. More people are dying right now than ever during covid and its been in heavy excess for a year now, but you don't care because it's no longer on the news so you can't use it to virtue signal with fellow vaxxies.

Spent 2 years virtue signalling, demanded those that didn't want it (even those who worked through the entire thing when it was actually still an unknown risk while they were sat at home all day long for a year) be round up into camps and kill, and now we have a public health emergency of massive excess death of unknown cause and they don't give a shit because it goes against the narrative and they can't use it to virtue signal.

Notice pfizer chief straight up admitted in EU parliament that they never even tested it for transmission so the entire narrative for covid vax passports was completely fraudulent, but it was swept under the rug and these people don't care because they were the oppressors with privileges and those that didn't want it were the filthy lower class that should be killed.

"Bro how did the Germans just go along with nazi stuff wtf they just let it happen to the jews wtf" took Hitler the better part of a decade to get people to that point, it took these NPCs less than 1 month of the jab being out to demand those that didn't take it be round up and ostracized from society and killed.

Edited January 21, 2023 by bloomer
typos

[Carl-Richard]

The whole vaccine skepticism thing exists because of the internet, social media and alternative media, because now you can find unqualified people posting inaccurate interpretations of scientific questions everywhere, and just the sheer volume makes it into a shit storm which claims the minds of all sorts of people. The fact of the matter is that the vaccine underwent well-established scientific protocols/trials for testing. The fact that they were released early doesn't change the fact that they were tested on many thousands of people, and it doesn't change the fact that this decision saved tons of lives. Then you can ask "but what about potential long-term unintended side effects?". Well for one, long-term side effects from vaccines that stretch beyond 2 months are virtually unheard of, and the professionals responsible for the trials had access to extreme amounts of analogous data to make an educated decision whether to release the vaccine or not. When you really boil it down, vaccine skepticism by and large is science skepticism.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[axiom]

29 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

The whole vaccine skepticism thing exists because of the internet, social media and alternative media, because now you can find unqualified people posting inaccurate interpretations of scientific questions everywhere, and just the sheer volume makes it into a shit storm which claims the minds of all sorts of people.

I think it’s more to do with social media specifically amplifying hatred and groupthink. The vaccine sceptics are relatively fringe (most people took the vaccine), but they have a right to question the official narrative.

Some of the world’s most qualified people have expressed doubts as to vaccine efficacy or covid policy and have also been wondering about the excess deaths. These include Robert Malone and Michael Yeadon, so in my opinion it is not something to just be brushed aside.

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, axiom said:

The vaccine sceptics are relatively fringe

Not today. It's almost become like the default position of the bottom half of the IQ curve.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Leo Gura

[zurew]

53 minutes ago, axiom said:

Some of the world’s most qualified people have expressed doubts as to vaccine efficacy or covid policy and have also been wondering about the excess deaths.

That doesn't mean anything, even I could show 10thousand doctors who agree with me, that still weak evidence. If there is something there, they should be able to back their claims up with hard evidence, not just with reports and hypotheticals and assumptions. Why is it so hard for these sceptical doctors to show clear evidence about this, when they claim that this has been going on for multiple years now (since the vaccine mandates)?

Literally all the peer reviewed evidence goes against their claims, so all those institutions either have to lie or they need to be very seriously wrong. Whats more likely, that they are all wrong on this one particular thing, or that these sceptical doctors connecting random dots without any tangible evidence or rigorous process?

Edited January 21, 2023 by zurew

[axiom]

51 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Not today. It's almost become like the default position of the bottom half of the IQ curve.

It will be people at both ends of the bell curve, i.e. the lowest and highest intelligence. Not so many in the middle.

Most people are of average intelligence by definition. Most people took the vaccine.

[AlterEgo]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

During the early peak of Covid there were so many corpses in hospitals that they had to order shipping containers to hold them all.

Absolute bullshit.

You actually believe that?  Where's the proof?

[Leo Gura]

10 minutes ago, AlterEgo said:

Absolute bullshit.

You actually believe that?  Where's the proof?

You can find videos of shipping containers hauled into hospitals.

Over 1 million Americans died of Covid. That's a lot of corpses. In some less developed countries they were throwing corpses into giant pits in the ground.

Stop consuming garbage alt-media.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Leo Gura

[zurew]

11 minutes ago, AlterEgo said:

Absolute bullshit.

You actually believe that?  Where's the proof?

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3168642/coronavirus-hong-kong-public-hospitals-use

https://abc7.com/covid19-bodies-deaths-shipping-containers-refrigerated/9390410/

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/05/07/us/new-york-coronavirus-victims-refrigerated-trucks/index.html

 

[bloomer]

@Leo Gura

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Not today. It's almost become like the default position of the bottom half of the IQ curve.

"muh u dumb"

Respond to my above post lol

2 hours ago, bloomer said:

Yes I'm sure Leo you're much more knowledgeable than world leading cardiologist Aseem Malhotra. Who is it saving exactly, the average age of death from covid was literally higher than life expectancy, and now excess deaths across all age groups are higher than they ever were when covid was still a thing and no vax.

That argument makes literally no sense.

"Yayyy we stopped some old boomers dying from covid but now every age group is in massive excess death, but only in heavily vaxxed countries, but its definitely NOT the vax so don't even bother looking into it", If you cared about public health that much you would be marching in the streets demanding governments actually look into what is going on rather than just ignoring it. More people are dying right now than ever during covid and its been in heavy excess for a year now, but you don't care because it's no longer on the news so you can't use it to virtue signal with fellow vaxxies.

 

[Leo Gura]

56 minutes ago, axiom said:

It will be people at both ends of the bell curve, i.e. the lowest and highest intelligence. Not so many in the middle.

Most people are of average intelligence by definition. Most people took the vaccine.

It's the low IQ people raising a stink about it. Most people who took the vaccine just quietly went on with their lives. The low IQ people started a whole brainwashing campaign to convince themselves that their foolishness has merit.

It's like RounderEarthers, you don't see them crusading around. Truth tends to be quiet and low-key, ignorance is loud and boisterous.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Gesundheit2]

[axiom]

I suppose the vaccine sceptics are thinking it will prove to be another Thalidomide, which was recommended as a matter of course to women in early stage pregnancy in the late '50s to early '60s. It took five years (1957 to 1962) for the connection to be made between thalidomide and oddly increased numbers of birth defects. Ultimately a direct causal link was found, and it was estimated to have caused 10,000 birth defects and miscarriages. Surprisingly, the class action suit was only settled in 2013 - over half a century later - for $89 million.

Are the excess deaths we are currently seeing the result of the covid vaccines? There is no way to be sure yet. Like thalidomide, hopefully within five years we'll have a better picture. We already know there are some unusual vaccine-implicated deaths, but as the fuller picture builds, there may prove to be a very limited connection overall. Of course, if there is a direct causal link, then I hope the families of those affected receive their compensation more promptly than in the thalidomide case.

I remain open minded, simply because there is nothing super convincing to go on except correlation at this point. And as the old saying goes... correlation does not equal causation. However, the correlation is interesting.

In the meantime, whilst beating someone down is always silly, there's nothing wrong with asking the right questions - and hopefully this comes with the kind of transparency that will be needed to investigate it properly (looking at Pfizer here primarily)

Edited January 21, 2023 by axiom

[Girzo]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If you have 100 million people and 5% of them are known will die of some disease X in the next year, but if you inject those 100 million people with a poison that will kill only 4.9% of them and spare 0.1% from dying, then as matter of public policy you should inject 100 million with poison.

I believe life is too messy for such calculations and predictions. Too many variables in the system. 0.1% would not be justified probably, it's often better to be conservative and not intervene for 0.1% of society. Brutal, but action often lead to more harm, by undesired side effects. For example, your theoretical calculations assume certain threshold level to be achieved that is not achieved and the death rate goes up by 0.5%.

I know you example is a fun thought experiment, with 100% conviction assured, but life never has such conditions.

There's a reason why social science uses p = 0.05 so often, it's hard to be more sure of anything at the scale of society.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Girzo

[bloomer]

@Gesundheit2  

I wouldn’t have made this thread on a forum filled with people who I know disagree with me if I didn’t want my beliefs questioned plus it’s not insane to think pharmaceutical companies conspire to make profits.

 

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, axiom said:

It took five years (1957 to 1962) for the connection to be made between thalidomide and oddly increased numbers of birth defects.

Was that the time it took to first suspect the connection, or was that the time it took to confirm the connection?

Edited January 21, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Danioover9000]

@Leo Gura

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Here's a really simple way to understand this:

During the early peak of Covid there were so many corpses in hospitals that they had to order shipping containers to hold them all.

Where is this for all the vaccine deaths? Way more people have been vaccinated than got Covid, so there should be shipping containers full of vaxxed corpses.

   I'm going to sound a bit evil here, but they missed out on the opportunity to film them ship the containers and filled the containers with their bodies. If they did that, they'd at least get a more clearer example of just how desperate and dire the situation was getting. Don't just film and documentary the hospital beds filling or some struggling even with ventilators, film and show the world when they are filling the containers, and how much are they filling them in. Viruses are hard to view experientially, in one's perception, nobody can see the literal cloud of miasma that is Covid, they can only see the tail effects of what is happening later, and even then some will keep denying.

   It's like with whale hunting denial, or people in denial that it's still going. Okay, show some pictures and films live. Yep, those who do may get canceled and censored for showing graphic material, but on the other hand, those who strongly deny will keep on denying, until they see enough outcomes directly, fully see the effects with their eyes of what whales and dolphins and sharks getting their fins cut for 'research purposes'  have to go through.

[Danioover9000]

2 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Leo Gura

   I'm going to sound a bit evil here, but they missed out on the opportunity to film them ship the containers and filled the containers with their bodies. If they did that, they'd at least get a more clearer example of just how desperate and dire the situation was getting. Don't just film and documentary the hospital beds filling or some struggling even with ventilators, film and show the world when they are filling the containers, and how much are they filling them in. Viruses are hard to view experientially, in one's perception, nobody can see the literal cloud of miasma that is Covid, they can only see the tail effects of what is happening later, and even then some will keep denying.

   It's like with whale hunting denial, or people in denial that it's still going. Okay, show some pictures and films live. Yep, those who do may get canceled and censored for showing graphic material, but on the other hand, those who strongly deny will keep on denying, until they see enough outcomes directly, fully see the effects with their eyes of what whales and dolphins and sharks getting their fins cut for 'research purposes'  have to go through.

   I meant they should have aired it on mainstream, not just images but some filmed.