Why It's Glaringly Obvious That Solipsism Is True

[Strannik]

10 minutes ago, Moksha said:

They see the same Self in a spiritual aspirant and an outcaste, in an elephant, a cow, and a dog.

- Bhagavad Gita 5:18

Yeah, and the Buddhists claim that the belief in any self, be it a limited personal self, or the eternal infinite Self, is just another delusion, and so Advaita is a heresy, there is no self or Self whatsoever. 

[Breakingthewall]

13 minutes ago, Strannik said:

It's all a religious fairytale that you are telling yourself in your imagination. There is no evidence that absolute infinity actually exists, because our direct conscious experience is always finite, so it is in principle impossible to experience, and hence experientially prove, the existence of the absolute infinity. So, it's all only your beliefs. But I know it feels very euphoric, so why not?

According to our direct experience, our consciousness has no boundaries, but that does not mean that it is "absolutely infinite". You are conflating the impossibility to find a limit with actual infinity. Example: there is no boundary that we can find in the sequence of natural numbers: no matter how many apples we have, we can always add another one. But still, the actual numbers of apples that we can experience is always finite. There is no evidence that the infinity of natural numbers as a reality actually exists. 

It's obvious that infinity is the case. For something to be finite, something else must limit it. what? and what limits it? the limits are apparent. the finite does not exist, it is false. you are creating it with your mind, right now, creating forms. stop creating them and infinity will be obvious. take enough of a psychedelic to prevent you from creating those limits and you will see it clearly. 

When you speak about natural numbers, there is a begining. It's not the infinity. The infinity never began

Edited January 18, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Strannik]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's obvious that infinity is the case. For something to be finite, something else must limit it. what? and what limits it? the limits are apparent. the finite does not exist, it is false. you are creating it with your mind, right now, creating forms. stop creating them and infinity will be obvious. take enough of a psychedelic to prevent you from creating those limits and you will see it clearly.

Finite is what I am directly consciously experiencing here and now. The rest of what you said is your imagination and your logic and reason, and logic and reason are just another mind constructs. You cannot prove the ultimate reality with logic, because the ultimate reality (whatever it is) must be prior to logic. As I said again, if you are experiencing the actual infinity, then it must necessarily include my perceptions as well. Then tell me what I am perceiving right now. If you can't, then you are fooling yourself, what you are experiencing is not infinity but only your imagination. 

I know that arguing with religious beliefs is useless, they are impenetrable. But sometimes I still try...

[Inliytened1]

12 minutes ago, Strannik said:

It's all a religious fairytale that you are telling yourself in your imagination. There is no evidence that absolute infinity actually exists, 

It takes a mystical experience.  It takes awakening to Absolute Infinity.  Becoming it.  Evidence is held within Infinity.  All you need is an open mind and a meditation practice.  

[Breakingthewall]

7 minutes ago, Strannik said:

 As I said again, if you are experiencing the actual infinity

I am experiencing the finite, that is why we are talking. but I know that the finite is appearance and that reality is infinite, because I have experienced it many times. once you see it once, it's obvious. the finite is not real. that is, it is not really finite, it seems so. deconstruct your mental barriers and you will see

[Moksha]

15 minutes ago, Strannik said:

Yeah, and the Buddhists claim that the belief in any self, be it a limited personal self, or the eternal infinite Self, is just another delusion, and so Advaita is a heresy, there is no self or Self whatsoever. 

All beliefs are delusions. There is only direct realization. I can tell you that I see the sameness in everything, but at best it is a pointer and at worst it will mislead you from yourself. Teachings are scribbles on the map, and should be taken with an ocean's worth of salt. They are not the territory.

[Strannik]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

It takes a mystical experience.  It takes awakening to Absolute Infinity.  Becoming it.  Evidence is held within Infinity.  All you need is an open mind and a meditation practice.  

Repeating again:

If you are experiencing the actual infinity, then it must necessarily include my perceptions as well (because if it does not, then it is not the absolute infinity, but only a limited version of it). Then tell me what I am perceiving right now. If you can't, then you are fooling yourself, what you are experiencing is not infinity but only your imagination. 

By the way, I'm a lifetime meditator, mostly in the Buddhist tradition, but also in Advaitic and neo-advaitic. Yeah, I used to experience all the "I AM THAT" euphoria, but eventually came to realization (based on my mystical experience) that the Buddhists are closer to the truth when they deny any reality to any "absolute", "eternal", "infinite", or "self-existing". From that perspective Advaita (including Leo's teachings) does not go far enough into the realization of the nature of reality to realize that it is all emptiness, and all these experiences are just mind constructs, including the experiences of "Self" or "Absolute" or "Infinite".  This realization requires very sober attitude scrutinizing all our experiences and ideas and never clinging to any beliefs or experiences no matter how euphoric or soothing they might be. Advaita and its derivatives still hold to these mind-fabricated beliefs, and so cannot be qualified as the "ultimate enlightenment" from the Buddhist point of view. Leo's teachings are nothing more than classical Advaita sprinkled with DMT trips and euphoric experiences of "halleluiah" on top of it, so essentially no different from Advaita. 

[Strannik]

26 minutes ago, Moksha said:

All beliefs are delusions. There is only direct realization. I can tell you that I see the sameness in everything, but at best it is a pointer and at worst it will mislead you from yourself. Teachings are scribbles on the map, and should be taken with an ocean's worth of salt. They are not the territory.

Yeah, I know, I also see sameness in everything - the same never-changing suchness, presence and awareness in every experience at the same moment of now. So what? How does it follow that this "suchness-nowness-presence-awareness" is the "Absolute" or "Infinite" or "Self"? It's JUST a pure direct experience of suchness-nowness-presence-awareness here and now exactly how it is experienced, everything else in addition to that is just our mind construct and our interpretation of it (which is nothing more than beliefs and delusions exactly as you said), and that includes any attributes to this "sameness" such as "Absolute", "Infinite", "Eternal", "Self", "Love" and so on. As a matter of the bare fact of the direct experience of this sameness, it has no such attributes. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Strannik

[Inliytened1]

40 minutes ago, Strannik said:

Repeating again:

If you are experiencing the actual infinity, then it must necessarily include my perceptions as well (

There is no "your" or  "my" perceptions.   There is only Being.  And it is Absolute.  You have to start by realizing No Self before you worry about No Other.  There is a shift in consciousness.  You are me and I am you, and thus that duality collapses.  But when you realize no Self..the rest will follow.  And I mean an awakening to No Self - not a conceptual realization.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Inliytened1

[Moksha]

17 minutes ago, Strannik said:

How does it follow that this "suchness-nowness-presence-awareness" is the "Absolute" or "Infinite" or "Self"? It's JUST a pure direct experience of suchness-nowness-presence-awareness here and now exactly how it is experienced, everything else in addition to that is just our mind construct and our interpretation of it (which is nothing more than beliefs and delusions exactly as you said).  

The suchness-nowness-presence-awareness (I'll call it God) that you realize in meditation is God, but not all God is in your realization. Not all God is even within the cosmos. The cosmos comes and goes as an expression of God, but God still is.

More words, but maybe the meaning will resonate with you:

There is nothing that exists separate from me, Arjuna. The entire universe is suspended from me as my necklace of jewels.

- Bhagavad Gita 7:8-11

[Strannik]

28 minutes ago, Moksha said:

The suchness-nowness-presence-awareness (I'll call it God) that you realize in meditation is God, but not all God is in your realization. Not all God is even within the cosmos. The cosmos comes and goes as an expression of God, but God still is.

More words, but maybe the meaning will resonate with you:

There is nothing that exists separate from me, Arjuna. The entire universe is suspended from me as my necklace of jewels.

- Bhagavad Gita 7:8-11

Yeah, I know, been there did that. Classical Advaita. You believe that not all God is in your direct realization (because you direct experience is always finite), so you extrapolate and construct "the rest of God" in your imagination and imagine it to be "Infinite". In your psychedelic trips you might experience some expansion of your everyday state of mind, but it still inevitably always finite, but you would think "aha, if it gets expanded further and further like that, it will eventually embrace the Infinity of God". But you can go even further (only if you want of course) and realize that such extrapolation of your direct experience is only your belief, and any labels and attributes such as "God", or "infinite" or "Absolute" or "Love" are meaningless and redundant mind constructs. They are all what happens in your conscious experience: the forms, ideas, phenomena, attributes, but they are not what reality actually is, they are only a content of your experience (no matter how euphoric or blissful or mind-expanding it may be). It is JUST suchness-nowness-presence-awareness here and now exactly how it is directly experienced empty of any attributes, and nothing else. There is nothing to believe in and nothing to cling to, not even to "Infinity" or "Absolute" or "God". 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Strannik

[SOUL]

It's pretty crazy looking to spend so much time talking to oneself.

[Strannik]

1 minute ago, SOUL said:

It's pretty crazy looking to spend so much time talking to oneself.

any better ideas how to spend the infinity of ever-now?

[SOUL]

3 minutes ago, Strannik said:

any better ideas how to spend the infinity of ever-now?

yes

[Strannik]

Just now, SOUL said:

yes

which is?

[SOUL]

Just now, Strannik said:

which is?

use your imagination

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Strannik said:

you are experiencing the actual infinity, then it must necessarily include my perceptions as well

that is a silly statement. You will have meditated for many years and surely it has helped you to be calmer, but for little else. infinity is the absence of limits. That your mind is too narrow to understand this and you need to have your thoughts read is fine, but that you respond rudely, ridiculing those who take the time and effort to answer you, makes me think: I'm an idiot wasting my time with this smartass? seems a little.

Real spirituality is not for narrow minded people. continue with your meditation games to calm anxiety

Edited January 19, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Strannik]

1 minute ago, SOUL said:

use your imagination

yeah, that's good too. I'm drawing in watercolor right now using imagination  but still don't see anything wrong with talking to myself though.

[Strannik]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

that is a silly statement. You will have meditated for many years and surely it has helped you to be calmer, but for little else. infinity is the absence of limits. That your mind is too narrow to understand this and you need to have your thoughts read is fine, but that you respond rudely, ridiculing those who take the time and effort to answer you, makes me think: I'm an idiot wasting my time with this smartass? seems a little.

 

I'm just having fun here, sorry if it sounded rude to you   I'm used to Zen practice which pointers to our false beliefs can be quite rude at times. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Strannik

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Strannik said:

I'm just having fun here, sorry if it sounded rude to you  

You are having fun, and me trying to explain myself seriously. It's obvious that I'm bit stupid and you a clown