Why It's Glaringly Obvious That Solipsism Is True

[Strannik]

Regarding solipsism, it is quite obvious stuff, but the subject is confusing in this thread because of the lack of clear definitions. The classical aka-Hume solipsism is denying that any conscious experiences exist other than "my own" conscious experiences present here and now. In other words, translating to the "dream of Consciousness" language, none of the dream characters in this world (except the "me"-character) have "their own" conscious experiences. But Leo is referring to a "Universal Consciousness" variant of solipsism which is different from Hume's. Surely, if Consciousness is the only subject of all conscious experiences of this dream, then technically it is solipsism, but that's not Hume's version of solipsism because this does not mean that other conscious experiences exist apart form "my own" personal conscious experiences present here and now (in other words, that the dream characters do not have their own experiences).

[Holykael]

26 minutes ago, Strannik said:

The realization of the possibility of "Consciousness dreaming the world including all its characters" is so elementary and obvious that only complete idiots don't get it these days. But none of those I saw who called themselves "enlightened" have ever been able to explain how exactly this dream is being manifested and why it is following the exact mathematical rules of physical laws down to tiny particles. So, as it turns out, you/me/us, the Infinite God, is completely helpless and is so dumb that it cannot even understand how and why it dreams what it dreams, and cannot even manipulate the dream even if it would want to (any Gods here ever learnt how to fly?)   

Leo, in one of your videos you mentioned that you severely suffer from a digestive problem. If you are the Infinite God, why can't you manipulate the dream to stop your suffering?

So, sure, we may be the Infinite Consciousness ontologically, but there is still a huge explanatory gap in this realization. We, being Consciousness, are completely clueless about how and why it dreams what it dreams, how to make sense of this dream and how to manipulate it to reduce suffering (and there undeniably is a lot of suffering experienced in this dream).  

God is driving the whole thing. It's the hidden hand that generates reality. He wants us to suffer. 

[Strannik]

14 minutes ago, Holykael said:

God is driving the whole thing. It's the hidden hand that generates reality. He wants us to suffer. 

1. So if you are God, then you must be driving it. Then, for example, please explain why you chose the dream to comply exactly with Schrodinger equation? And why can't you jump off the window and fly if you are God?

Or (if you can't) is it that one of God's hands does not know what the other "hidden" one is doing? In other words, "I am God with multiple personality disorder. It's my other personality that is doing this and I have no clue why I'm doing this ... ".

2. "He wants us to suffer." OK, please explain exactly why, what is the purpose and what is the benefit of suffering (with an example of severely abused child). I hope you are familiar with Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Karamazov Brothers (Suffering of Children)

Edited January 18, 2023 by Strannik

[Strannik]

Re. solipsism ,here is a good quote:

“It still remains a scandal to philosophy and to human reason in general that the existence of things outside us … must be accepted merely on faith, and that if anyone thinks good to doubt their existence, we are unable to counter his doubts by any satisfactory proof.” Critique of Pure Reason, B519. 

So yeah, solipsism (either Hume's or Advaitist version) obviously cannot be disproved, but neither it can be proved. It forever remains an unverifiable and unfalsifiable hypothesis, or a matter of belief if we want to take it religiously.  Surely this belief is liberating in a way (from the illusion of a separate self), but in another way it is obviously lacking in huge explanatory gaps. "I am the Infinite God but I have no clue why and how I am dreaming what I'm dreaming, why there is so much suffering experienced in the dream and how to stop it." And, by the way, we do not have to believe in "I am the infinite God" in order to realize that our belief in a separate self is an illusion, otherwise we are just replacing "I am human" belief with "I am God" belief (surely the latter feels better . 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Strannik

[Breakingthewall]

solipsism is not a description of reality, it is an aid to awakening. you have to integrate solipsism to be able to wake up. If you want a description of reality made by Leo, this is the poem. in my opinion a very brilliant description of infinity. Probably the best that you could find. 

[Strannik]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

If you want a description of reality made by Leo, this is the poem. in my opinion a very brilliant description of infinity. Probably the best that you could find. 

where is the poem?

[Breakingthewall]

5 minutes ago, Strannik said:

where is the poem?

5 minutes ago, Strannik said:

 

https://www.actualized.org/articles/reading-a-poetic-description-of-god-consciousness

[Strannik]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

https://www.actualized.org/articles/reading-a-poetic-description-of-god-consciousness

OK. I appreciate Leo's poetic undertaking, although I still prefer the masterpieces of classical Advaita like Adavhuta Gita for example.

Yet, to me it seems like it' s just mumbo-jumboing ourselves into the "oceanic state of oneness" with no clear explanations of why and how the Mind is dreaming what it is dreaming. Why is God is so smart to compute this dream with extremely mathematical precision down to the dreaming of the behavior of the subatomic particles, and yet it is so dumb to deceive itself to believe in the reality of the dream. Why is this so precisely mathematically designed dream is so full of stupidity, self-deception and suffering? 

"An illusion perfectly designed to allow you to forget for a second that you are God." - says the poem

So why is God so stubbornly trying to fool itself into forgetting itself and identifying itself with figments of its own dream? And not just forget and wonder around in the dream, but suffer in that dream immensely and brutally without any way to stop the suffering? Why, after such realization of Oneness and Love, Leo is still suffering from digestive disorder and cannot stop it? Yeah, you can convince yourself to be masochistic and "love" pain and suffering without any ability to stop it. But would not it be easier to actually stop suffering, and even more, stop this entire insane self-deceptive cosmic dream, and just rest in formless state, or start dreaming something less nonsensical, less self-deceptive, bearing less suffering? God can perfectly know itself and still dream a world where it continues to know itself while playing with and enjoying infinite variety of forms with no suffering and self-deception whatsoever. But no, Infinite God cannot do it, it cannot control its own dream. Why? Leo perfectly answered this:

 "Somehow it all computes in the vastness of your mind."  

Exactly - "somehow". God has no clue how it computes its own dream and how to control it. God is indeed Absolute because it is Absolutely helpless and Absolutely clueless.    

Actually, there is a hypothesis to explain why: when God realized that he is completely alone for the whole eternity, there is nothing to do, nothing "outside" of him, nothing to reach to, noone to talk to, nothing to know, he experienced a psychotic breakdown and, to escape from the infinite and absolute terror of this loneliness and hopelessness, he went insane by starting a dream where he could forget the terror of that realization and by splitting into a vast number of personal perspectives (to escape from the experience of loneliness). He made this dream so that it would be very difficult to get back to that terrifying self-realization. He knew that this dream would entail a lot of suffering, but all that suffering would still be incomparably less that the infinite terror of that self-realization. Then he erased his memories and lost himself into a variety of personalities each believing in their own reality as a separate being. The God's plan for the dream was not to eventually restore the original Oneness, but to actually forever hide and self-deceive away from it.  We were not supposed to get "awakened"!. Does it make any sense?     

Edited January 18, 2023 by Strannik

[Rafael Thundercat]

What are the possibilites of realise absolute solipsism by commenting or reading comments of others about Solipsism?

I am asking about the efficacy of this activity. Taking in consideration that if I want something accomplished better to reduce the time and energy on what make my chances to achieve something very unlikely.

[Breakingthewall]

@Strannik

I would say that infinity implies that everything that can be, is. what god is is an infinite creative explosion. the implication of what infinity supposes does not fit in the mind. if you look at infinity, you see that everything is glory. Of course, suffering is not excluded, nor is illness, nor torture. Although it would be said that everything has a purpose. everything is exactly as it should be to compose the perfect mosaic. not an atom is where it is by chance. one breath of god is the creation of infinite perfect multiverses which in turn contain infinite multiverses. another breath is the collapse of all that. what god is is inconceivable.

[Breakingthewall]

7 minutes ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

What are the possibilites of realise absolute solipsism by commenting or reading comments of others about Solipsism?

I am asking about the efficacy of this activity. Taking in consideration that if I want something accomplished better to reduce the time and energy on what make my chances to achieve something very unlikely.

The thing is to realize that you are the absolute. Nothing is outside you. Only your pov exist. Your pov is the cosmos. If at any point you switched to receiving thousands of povs at once, it would still be your pov. you can't escape your pov. if you access god's infinite pov, it's still your pov. it's always you

[Strannik]

4 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

@Strannik

I would say that infinity implies that everything that can be, is. what god is is an infinite creative explosion. the implication of what infinity supposes does not fit in the mind. if you look at infinity, you see that everything is glory. Of course, suffering is not excluded, nor is illness, nor torture. Although it would be said that everything has a purpose. everything is exactly as it should be to compose the perfect mosaic. not an atom is where it is by chance. one breath of god is the creation of infinite perfect multiverses which in turn contain infinite multiverses. another breath is the collapse of all that. what god is is inconceivable.

 

yeah, I know that theory, sounds very beautiful but actually makes our life meaningless. For every version of you behaving in one way there is an infinite variety of versions of you behaving in all other possible ways, good or bad, right or wrong. So what's the point doing anything? For every version of you getting enlightened there is an infinite variety of versions of you being deluded and never getting enlightened. For every version of happy you there is an infinite variety of versions of you immensely suffering. I don't see anything "glorious" about it. It's pretty meaningless actually.   

[Strannik]

14 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The thing is to realize that you are the absolute. Nothing is outside you. Only your pov exist. Your pov is the cosmos. If at any point you switched to receiving thousands of povs at once, it would still be your pov. you can't escape your pov. if you access god's infinite pov, it's still your pov. it's always you

If you guys would ACTUALLY experience such absolute state (instead of poetically imagining it) you would inevitably experience all the infinite terror of this absolute loneliness, helplessness and meaninglessness of such solipsistic existence.

Yeah, you may say that all this "terror" is still imagined, but so al that "glory" and "love" of the absolute is imagined too. It's just experiences appearing and disappearing in Consciousness. Consciousness playing with its imaginations. So who cares? I don't see a reason to be so euphoric about it.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Strannik

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Strannik said:

yeah, I know that theory, sounds very beautiful but actually makes our life meaningless. For every version of you behaving in one way there is an infinite variety of versions of you behaving in all other possible ways, good or bad, right or wrong. So what's the point doing anything? For every version of you getting enlightened there is an infinite variety of versions of you being deluded and never getting enlightened. For every version of happy you there is an infinite variety of versions of you immensely suffering. I don't see anything "glorious" about it. It's pretty meaningless actually.   

I think you can't think in infinity. the infinite does not make any sense and is unattainable by the mind. anything we think is not even close. the only thing we can do is break down the barriers and realize the infinite. One thing I know for sure: infinity is perfection. is what you are looking for. appearance is irrelevant, infinity is absolute glory and it is what we are. nothing can be better. If you have never realized infinity, believe this: it is more than any dream of glory you may have.

[Strannik]

21 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

I think you can't think in infinity. the infinite does not make any sense and is unattainable by the mind. anything we think is not even close. the only thing we can do is break down the barriers and realize the infinite. One thing I know for sure: infinity is perfection. is what you are looking for. appearance is irrelevant, infinity is absolute glory and it is what we are. nothing can be better. If you have never realized infinity, believe this: it is more than any dream of glory you may have.

nope. First, you cannot actually experience the infinity. If you think you can than you obviously fooling yourself. And you can't define infinity in any way and limit infinity to "glory". It's all religious mumbo-jumbo. Absolute infinity cannot have any attributes (like "glory", "perfection", "love" or else).

Also, since it is impossible to actually experience the infinity, there is in principle no experiential evidence that it even actually exists. It's all your religion guys. If you feel comfortable to hold to these beliefs and get so euphoric about them, then go for it, who am I to judge you? But if you really want to be honest to yourselves and try not to deceive yourself into these self-soothing beliefs, then you might think deeper about that.  

There is a very simple test actually. Suppose you are experiencing the actual absolute infinity right now. Then this infinity includes everything, including my own conscious experiences (my thoughts, sensations), so you also must experience what I am experiencing now. Do you? If yes, then tell me my current thoughts to prove it. But if you can't then what you are experiencing is NOT the infinity, but only your imagination of it.   

Edited January 18, 2023 by Strannik

[Breakingthewall]

7 minutes ago, Strannik said:

Also, since it is impossible to actually experience the infinity,

It's totally possible, since the infinity is the case right now, the finite is just appearance. What do you think spirituality is? break the limits of the finite appearance. It is not a story, it is the actual reality. this very moment is infinity, but your mind is like the blinders on the donkey, it only lets you see what you have to see. do 5 meo many times, deconstruct your mind, eliminate the attachment to form, and you will see what it is: infinity. and the word glory, or perfection, or hallelujah, is what comes to mind to describe it.

[Strannik]

2 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's totally possible, since the infinity is the case right now, the finite is just appearance. What do you think spirituality is? break the limits of the finite appearance. It is not a story, it is the actual reality. this very moment is infinity, but your mind is like the blinders on the donkey, it only lets you see what you have to see. do 5 meo many times, deconstruct your mind, eliminate the attachment to form, and you will see what it is: infinity. and the word glory, or perfection, or hallelujah, is what comes to mind to describe it.

As I said, the absolute infinity cannot have any particular attribute of "glory, or perfection, or hallelujah", because it must include all possible attributes.  

And I think you missed my last paragraph (I edited it at the last minute):

"There is a very simple test actually. Suppose you are experiencing the actual absolute infinity right now. Then this infinity includes everything, including my own conscious experiences (my thoughts, sensations), so you also must experience what I am experiencing now. Do you? If yes, then tell me my current thoughts to prove it. But if you can't then what you are experiencing is NOT the infinity, but only your imagination of it.   "

But yeah, it's all "hallelujah" as you say, a religion. Sure, why not, if you want to continue fooling yourself, who is there to stop you?. 

 

[Breakingthewall]

2 minutes ago, Strannik said:

There is a very simple test actually. Suppose you are experiencing the actual absolute infinity right now. Then this infinity includes everything, including my own conscious experiences (my thoughts, sensations), so you also must experience what I am experiencing now. Do you? If yes, then tell me my current thoughts to prove it. But if you can't then what you are experiencing is NOT the infinity, but only your imagination of it.   "

The absolute it is a bottomless pit of total potential. but above all, it is you, when the limits disappear. the words glory and all that refer to total perfection. perfection means that there is absolutely nothing missing or over. it is complete freedom. reality is that. If you win the lottery, your feeling will be great, but not perfect. infinity is perfect. What you are thinking now or what I am thinking now is nothing, it is unreal. I will not tell you that I understand the how and why of my current finite appearance, but I know that it is only an appearance, a construction about to collapse. but all this conversation is not serving for anything, if you want to realize the infinite, do it. not doing it is stupid, having the means

[Moksha]

9 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

No matter how awakened someone is, I can guarantee they have desires from the second they wake up, to the second they fall asleep, as does every living thing in existence

Enlightenment isn't the end of desire. It is the end of identification with desire. When you are lucid within the dream, you no longer seek external fulfillment. Your true nature is Self-sufficient. Nothing can threaten you. You still enjoy sensations, but no longer take the tiny planet you're living on so seriously. As Krishnamurti said when asked about enlightenment:

I don’t mind what happens. That is the essence of inner freedom. It is a timeless spiritual truth: release attachment to outcomes.

Equanimity is rare, but so is enlightenment. God prefers a gradual spiritual path for the vast majority of its avatars.

People call themselves enlightened without understanding what it means. It is not a belief or an insight. It is God seeing clearly, within its dream.

On solipsism, I was referring to the traditional definition. If you define solipsism as the mind of God, of course it's true. Most people don't mean that though. They only realize God within their avatar, without realizing the entirety of God throughout and beyond the cosmos. Seamless seeing is not a conceptualization. It is a direct realization.

They see the same Self in a spiritual aspirant and an outcaste, in an elephant, a cow, and a dog.

- Bhagavad Gita 5:18

[Strannik]

14 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

The absolute it is a bottomless pit of total potential. but above all, it is you, when the limits disappear. the words glory and all that refer to total perfection. perfection means that there is absolutely nothing missing or over. it is complete freedom. reality is that. If you win the lottery, your feeling will be great, but not perfect. infinity is perfect. What you are thinking now or what I am thinking now is nothing, it is unreal. I will not tell you that I understand the how and why of my current finite appearance, but I know that it is only an appearance, a construction about to collapse. but all this conversation is not serving for anything, if you want to realize the infinite, do it. not doing it is stupid, having the means

It's all a religious fairytale that you are telling yourself in your imagination. There is no evidence that absolute infinity actually exists, because our direct conscious experience is always finite, so it is in principle impossible to experience, and hence experientially prove, the existence of the absolute infinity. So, it's all only your beliefs. But I know it feels very euphoric, so why not?

According to our direct experience, our consciousness has no boundaries, but that does not mean that it is "absolutely infinite". You are conflating the impossibility to find a limit with actual infinity. Example: there is no boundary that we can find in the sequence of natural numbers: no matter how many apples we have, we can always add another one. But still, the actual numbers of apples that we can experience is always finite. There is no evidence that the infinity of natural numbers as a reality actually exists.