Postnatal Anxiety, OCD and Depression

[Lana Faye]

Hi there,

I had severe anxiety and fear following the birth of my son, which have eventually resulted in OCD, depression and suicidal thoughts. I without any reason feared I could kill my son. Tried to battle the fears and anxiety but the more I battled them the worse they became . So I was hospitalised. The treatment at the clinic consisted of psychotherapy and medication (antidepressants Escitalopram, Mitrazapin and antipsychotic Olanzapine). A week later or so my mind was going through hell. First, my thoughts felt torn…in addition to dry mouth, agitation, and restlessness. Then my thoughts were so fast I could barely catch any. Like they were running at a light speed. I reported these side effects to my psychiatrist but was told antidepressants take at least two weeks to have any effect. The third phase was tremendous slowing down of my thoughts. Two months later I have no anxiety but I generally feel like a zombie because all my emotions are dulled. I also feel like there is a cognitive damage caused by the medications so I’ve started tapering them off. 
 

Anyone having similar experience? 
@Leo Gura what is your take on antidepressants and antipsychotic medication? 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Lana Faye

[Cathal]

@Lana Faye That's generally the reported case of someone on anti-depressants actually, exactly what you described. Yeah, you kind of in a sense solved your issue of restlessness and suicidal thoughts but in doing so also suck the life out of yourself, if we think of emotions as one big soup instead of a bunch of seperate ingredients that somehow you can get rid of one and not the other, anti-depressants has spoiled the entire soup. But if you genuinely feel like you're a threat to yourself or son, it's probably better to stay on them until you actually begin to get a grip on truly understanding why you are having these thoughts. 

It seems like your anticipation of losing something is causing a tremendous battle with trying to control the outcome, what might be nice is to reflect on the understanding that things are going to unfold the way they do and you have no control over them, even if you lock yourself down and go into a bunker you have another hundred things that could go wrong, where do you draw the line? just do what is needed and let go... there's nothing to worry about, it's okay to be not know what will happen

If you're going to go off of them, I would suggest therapy and microdosing mushrooms (0.25g or so) psychiatrist is not a therapist, having someone to talk to is going to bring real results

[Lana Faye]

@Judy2 Hi Judy, thank you so much for your kind words! It is a relief to meet someone who understands what ocd and depression are. It indeed has been a hell and I felt so much guilt towards my son for feeling “not a normal mom”. I understand now why I developed ocd and depression. I don’t battle intrusive thoughts anymore however, mentally and emotionally I still feel weird. Perhaps, it’s because of antidepressants. I am meeting my psychiatrist soon to discuss my situation. Can you tell me what helped you get through depression and ocd? I will be grateful if you share your story.

 

Sincerely,

Lana

[flowboy]

Sounds like a rough time!

You and your son will get through this together.

The postpartum depression is caused by the hormonal shift between the pregnant and non-pregnant state.

It can subconsciously remind the mother's body of the complications during her own birth.

If you had complications when you were born, where you came close to death (very common actually), that would explain the "death feelings" rising up and causing thoughts of suicidality and killing your baby.

Just remind yourself that it's old feelings messing with your present reality.

They will calm down.

If you were fine before pregnancy, you can be fine after.

Medication can be helpful in the short term.

It's best to have a therapist for the long term.

Also, for managing these particular types of depression, exercise is really important, such as going for runs.

Also touch helps to calm it down, so get as many cuddles as you can from your partner.

[Richard Purdy]

Can you explain what type of OCD you have? What's your biggest fears?

[Lana Faye]

@Cathal hi! I quite liked the soup analogy. I’d also describe it as having local teeth anaesthesia - you don’t feel the pain while a dentist is fixing your teeth but later when you want to eat something your mouth feels weird, like it doesn’t belong to you, so food doesn’t bring any pleasure. I guess antidepressants act like emotional anaesthetic. At least for me. They do not fix the problem, they just numb the pain. The calmness is obviously artificial and the side effects are very distressing. Especially, cognitive damage, emotional blunting and inability to experience orgasm. It looks like I am a very sensitive person and the dosage the doctors prescribed was too much. They wanted to increase it and keep me at the clinic longer but I refused.
 

I  gradually decreased the dose and now off antidepressants for three days. Been vomiting, having diarrhoea but on the positive note I at least feel that my heart chakra is on again. Before it felt blocked. My ocd still stayed with me. Antidepressants just gave some time to learn not to identify with my thoughts. Sometimes my fears of going crazy and killing my son are still intense. Especially in the morning and when I am alone. You are right, I am afraid to lose control but the thoughts are very intrusive so I just give up battling them, cry and then go on with my mom responsibilities. I’d say I have Pure O revolving around the themes of responsibility, violence and existential matters. All connected to ego, craziness and death. I thought the root cause was my childhood trauma. My mom suffered from schizophrenia and committed suicide in front of me. Since then I have been scared of going crazy and was continuously told since teenager-hood that if my mom had it I am likely to develop it too. Other things related to death were that before I did abortion and later had miscarriage. Also the pregnancy with my son was filled with much stress and hospitalisations. When I was giving a birth his heart rate was dropping and I was losing consciousness while having much responsibility to still be awake and push because his life was dependent on me. Understanding all of this still do not help me with ocd although I thought it would. Acceptance of the intrusive thoughts without any judgement and further investigation like why on Earth I have this suffering and why Karma fucks me in the brain bring more results. 
 

Do you also suffer from OCD?

[roopepa]

@Lana Faye Hi!

I used to take citalopram for a long time for depression, and olanzapine for a few weeks after an intense trip: suicidal delusions etc.

I know how the olanzapine feels like. It was helful for me at the time, when the delusions and anxiety were at their worst, but the side-effects are pretty harsh. Are you still taking it? I recommend quitting the meds according the doctors advice and just a bit by bit... The withdrawal effects can be pretty brutal, especially with olanzapine.

Overall, your experience sounds pretty familiar. For me it was mostly about suicide and self-harm... Intrusive thoughts and delusions, anxiety that I might just "lose control", "go insane" and kill myself. Stuff like that.

It takes some time to sort these things out. There will be clarity and probably quite awesome insights coming as to what's went down and why these thoughts appeared. For me it was probably the most brutal and painful experiences I've ever had, but what I learned from it and insights I had has been so precious. In fact I'm starting to appreciate the whole experience.

Really recommend psychotherapy, though only when you're ready and feeling stable enough with it. And from the spiritual side, A Course In Miracles was and still is pretty damn helpful for me. Though make sure you're ready and stable enough for that stuff too.

Wishing all the best for you and your family! ?

[Lana Faye]

@Richard Purdy

On 22.01.2023 at 6:28 AM, Richard Purdy said:

Can you explain what type of OCD you have? What's your biggest fears?

Initially (a week after birth) I just had an intense fear of going insane and killing my son. It was absolutely irrational but it was very very intense. The more I tried to explain or analyse the fear, the worse it became. I think I developed ocd because I put too much meaning into my suffering.

[Leo Gura]

On 1/16/2023 at 9:23 AM, Lana Faye said:

Anyone having similar experience? 
@Leo Gura what is your take on antidepressants and antipsychotic medication? 

I'm no expert on them. I suppose some people need them, but they are def not good for you. It's just a question of, are they holding back something worse? If you are very mentally unstable then perhaps they are good for you. But I would never want a functional person taking them. Most people report feeling numb on them and not themselves. Which is why Kanye doesn't take his meds. But that didn't work out so well for him lately. So maybe he should take them before he destroys his life.

Have you considered psychedelic therapy? Ketamine, etc?

Edited January 25, 2023 by Leo Gura

[flowboy]

@Lana Faye  What was your own birth like?

[Lana Faye]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Have you considered psychedelic therapy? Ketamine, etc?

I have asked them at the clinic whether they could put me on psychedelics instead but they refused, saying psychedelics are not as well researched as antidepressants. 
The theory suggests that the chemical imbalance, i.e. lack of serotonin or norepinephrine, causes depression but I don’t think that is true in my case. I was extremely anxious trying to find an answer why I had these pictures of me killing my son. I thought I was going nuts but in fact, when I started the meds, the situation got worse. I guess I’ve experienced the full spectrum of the side effects. I am better off without this shit. 

[Lana Faye]

11 hours ago, flowboy said:

@Lana Faye  What was your own birth like?

My mom told me they broke my collarbone during birth.

[Lana Faye]

On 20.01.2023 at 0:20 PM, flowboy said:

The postpartum depression is caused by the hormonal shift between the pregnant and non-pregnant state.

It can subconsciously remind the mother's body of the complications during her own birth.

Yes, I’ve also heard that prolactin makes women really anxious after giving birth.

 

Thank you for your kind message. It gets a little better. 

[Leo Gura]

Ketamine will be way better for depression and anxiety than anti-depressants. And few side-effects.

As far as your negative thoughts go, allow yourself to have as many as your mind wants, just don't act on them. You gotta let your mind play out those negative fantasies to get them out of your system.

Negative fantasies are not bad. Don't judge yourself for having them. Don't fight them. Just relax and observe them with curiosity and love.

That's what I've done in full blown states of insanity and evil. You defeat evil by just accepting it. There are no wrong kinds of visions or consciousness if you observe it mindfully.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Leo Gura

[flowboy]

39 minutes ago, Lana Faye said:

My mom told me they broke my collarbone during birth.

There you go.

That's really traumatic and as an infant you no doubt believed you were going to die, be killed, or have to kill in order to live.

This type of trauma causes a "death feeling" in people, that can sometimes come up when it's triggered, and make people temporarily suicidal or fantasize about death of themselves and others.

I've seen this. I've lost a friend to this.

@Lana Faye I'm just saying: you're not crazy. This is why you feel like this. Birth trauma gets triggered when you yourself give birth.

Maybe that can provide some solace.

[integral]

Are you exercising at a gym to relieve stress? 

[Richard Purdy]

@Leo Gura I understand when you say don’t act on your thoughts. But for one of my thoughts, I can’t tell if it’s real or imagined. Particularly I had a dream where I had a bad trip of smoking DMT in the parking lot of Walmart while someone was driving. Thinking about it or visualizing what had happened now, putting myself through the motions, bringing up the exact sensations I felt... I feel like I’m reactivating the trip and the chemical in my brain. I feel like I can’t move. Feel like I have to stop my whole day and wait for tomorrow to be functioning again and have it out of my system. I can’t tell if this is real or imagined. So you say just don’t act on it, but I’m afraid to even let my mind play out what happened.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Richard Purdy

[jimwell]

@Lana Faye

Psychiatric meds can be useful short term. But they will eventually further destroy your body and mind long term.

Find a way to get out of meds. Have a strategic plan. This is the fight of your life which will take many years (3 years to a lifetime) to win.

Seriously implement the basics first: long, deep sleep; eat variety of organic foods; exercise at least 3 times a week, better to take long walks in nature alone and with others (jogging also ok); surround yourself with loving people; etc. 

The ultimate solutions are to embody unconditional self-love and embrace death. This might sound nothing or useless to you for now, but remember what I said.

Your love for yourself is very strong and unconditional, it does not matter what you do or what happens. 

When the intrusive thought invades your mind saying "What if I murder my son?", say to yourself "Be it. But I want to forgive myself and feel peaceful." "I can murder my son, I can murder my husband, I can even murder myself. But I will forgive myself and I want to feel peaceful."

If the intrusive thought counters "But why would you want to forgive yourself and feel peaceful? You are a horrible mother.", you say to yourself "Because I love myself. No other reason but I love myself, so I will forgive myself and feel peaceful.".

That's the power of unconditional self-love. It doesn't matter what you do, you will forgive and approve of yourself. 

Embody unconditional self-love and repeat those self-empowering thoughts everyday for years. 

I assume you genuinely do NOT want to murder your son. So, it's better to love and nurture him. But even if you really want to murder your son, you can do it and feel peaceful if your love for yourself is very strong and unconditional.

Neurosis (clinical anxiety) or any form of extreme anxiety at its core is fear of death. All your compulsions are for the purpose of preventing death. Even normal people who have no clinical anxiety and depression actually have significant fears and anxieties because they also fear death. The difference is neurotic humans have extraordinary, uncontrolled, neurotic fears as a result of genetics, abusive parents, childhood trauma, destroyed ego, etc.   

I know these things work because I have done them. I have crippled my crippling neurosis via unconditional self-love and embracing death. I embody unconditional self-love and I partially embody the embrace of death.

[Richard Purdy]

@Leo Gura  Basically my question above is that, is that self deception?  Am I just limiting myself? Can't tell if its real or fatasy

[Lana Faye]

On 25.01.2023 at 9:40 PM, Leo Gura said:

Not judging my scary thoughts and not assigning them any meaning has helped greatly. Thank you @Leo Gura

Edited February 2, 2023 by Lana Faye
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