What's Wrong With Being In The Dream?

[Deep]

I don't think being asleep is wrong because there are many good people who are. On a deeper level they feel connected with others but aren't sure about how. The illusion of separation is created by our mind. Most people aren't aware of Truth because they're chasing for happiness outside themselves. Our spiritual nature is very subtle in comparison to what our mind tells us. Once the mind is destroyed our spirit can be embraced. Destroying the mind doesn't mean becoming a zombie. It just means stopping the fluctuations of the mind. We automatically categorize things without even realizing it. 

If a person gets prematurely awakened, it can ruin his/her life. Jesus randomly woke up and offended lots of people. I suspect he didn't know anything about enlightenment. If a person knows about enlightenment, they can handle it much better. I don't think everyone needs to be enlightened, nor is everyone inclined to pursue it. From the Absolute perspective it doesn't matter what we do. After the dinosaurs died there is still life on Earth. Consciousness can produce life out nothing.

How does practicing spirituality make you feel? Do you notice a difference from when your consciousness was lower? 

 Thanks for reading! 

Edited March 2, 2017 by Deep

[Christian]

Well, I would like to say that yes, enlightenment can ruin your life if you are immature and you pursue it. There are lots of dangers to becoming enlightened and I have experienced lots of them.

Ever since I started the journey I have had this huge urge to debate and rationalize with others about how enlightenment is the TRUTH and I denied other people's perspective. I have tried and tried and tried and every time, I just get a similar response. You are crazy is basically the theme. Do not go around preaching enlightenment, that is fucking stupid. The worst thing you can do to an ego is tell it it is a fiction. That will make people furious generally speaking.

Lead from the ground up and be a living example instead."Be the change you wish to see in the world" like Gandhi said. And even if you do not decide to pursue enlightenment, that is cool too. There is no rush and in the absolute sense, nothing is right or wrong. And I too know a lot of kind people who are not on the spiritual path who I love and care about. My closest friends do not know anything about it, and I will never tell them because friends are for chit-chat, not enlightenment. 

And to answer the question of whether the spiritual path has improved my life, I would say not a lot. It has made me increasingly aware though of how much of a people pleaser I am. And how I feel like I am not good enough. That is progress, but I do not feel that much happier after all than when I started. But I am still new, and I believe in long-term results so I just keep going.

[Ananta]

Nothing's wrong with being asleep/unconscious, but that is why so many suffer. However, awakening really is a calling, then you become a "seeker", usually it's to end your apparent suffering. So, those with happy dreams don't have a reason to wake up really.

If someone goes from awakenings to actual enlightenment, then imo it was meant to happen. So, there is no issue with being young at the time. Look at Ramana Maharshi one of the greatest sages. He was 16 I believe when he was awakened, which turned into enlightenment.

Most simply aren't ready or have no desire, so they stay asleep. No harm, they'll get there in another life, so to speak. 

"The wise do not disturb the ignorant"

[PureExp]

There is no harm, and there is no gain.

Try not to see it in those terms. Its natural to be in ignorant state (its a play, we can't comprehend), and its natural to be awakened to knowledge (we can't comprehend that too).

It is what I call "Ripening", when a fruit is ripe, it falls. No one does it. When a person is ready, he/she is awakened, no one does it. This is universal truth, it is happening since the beginning of history. A teacher (or suffering, say) can accelerate the ripening, it does not cause it.

So those who are asleep, they are perfect, and those who got up, they are perfect too.

[Prabhaker]

8 hours ago, Deep said:

I don't think being asleep is wrong because there are many good people who are.

Unless you are awakened , you can't know what is good and what is bad. 

The ego is the principle of immorality and your so-called morality hangs on the principle of ego. It is based on immorality. But you have been taught to be this way – be the way society wants you to be and society will respect you. If you want the respect, never rebel; if you want the respect, bow down to the order of society.

Do you remember the people who killed Socrates?  They were the respectable people, they were the guardians of morality in society. Do you remember the name of the judge who sentenced Socrates, who ordered that he had to be poisoned? Do you know who these people were? From where they came? They were respectable people, they were the guardians of morality, they were the protectors of society, they were the leaders and the politicians and the priests

The man who was the opponent, who had brought the case against Socrates in the court, said that he was corrupting the minds of the young people. That was the crime that he was doing. He was corrupting the minds of the young people.

Who were the men who killed al-Hillaj Mansoor? Their names are forgotten. And they were the pinnacles of morality, they were the paragons of morality, they were the people who were afraid that al-Hillaj Mansoor was destroying morality, religion; that he was a dangerous man and society had to be protected from him.

Morality is a sort of decoration of the ego. Yes, through morality you can cultivate great virtues, but you will never be virtuous. Through morality you can become very talented in certain directions but those talents will remain unconscious. Morality cannot bring awareness because morality is not based on enlightenment.

Morality is like the shadow, religion is the real figure. When religion is there, morality comes on its own – it has to come, there is no other possibility. But if morality is there, there is no necessity for religion to be there. You can become a moral person without becoming religious at all. You can have good qualities. You can be honest, sincere, true, non-violent, but that doesn’t make you religious. If you are religious all moral qualities simply follow you.

When you are moral you have to manage those good qualities continuously they have to be maintained otherwise they will disappear. A moral man has to manage his honesty continuously because every moment there is a fear that he may function dishonestly. The dishonesty has not disappeared, it has been repressed. It is there, it is waiting in the base-ment of his being for its opportunity, and once the opportunity is there it will assert itself with vengeance.

[Hsinav]

15 hours ago, Deep said:

If a person gets prematurely awakened, it can ruin his/her life.

What is there to ruin? A short period of a dream?

[Deep]

1 hour ago, Vanish said:

What is there to ruin? A short period of a dream?

Well, ruin in the sense that others would misunderstand them. For example, Spirit is appearing as everything that we see but we aren't aware of that. Once a person awakens he can be aware and others would think he is crazy. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Deep
more sentences

[Deep]

7 hours ago, Prabhaker said:

Unless you are awakened , you can't know what is good and what is bad. 

The ego is the principle of immorality and your so-called morality hangs on the principle of ego. It is based on immorality. But you have been taught to be this way – be the way society wants you to be and society will respect you. If you want the respect, never rebel; if you want the respect, bow down to the order of society.

Isn't it nice to fit in to a certain extent? I mean you don't have to be a slave to society. You just have to make them think, you're one of them. In reality, you're awareness is different from theirs. You can pretend to believe in everything they do. 

[Dodo]

18 hours ago, Deep said:

I don't think being asleep is wrong because there are many good people who are. On a deeper level they feel connected with others but aren't sure about how. The illusion of separation is created by our mind. Most people aren't aware of Truth because they're chasing for happiness outside themselves. Our spiritual nature is very subtle in comparison to what our mind tells us. Once the mind is destroyed our spirit can be embraced. Destroying the mind doesn't mean becoming a zombie. It just means stopping the fluctuations of the mind. We automatically categorize things without even realizing it. 

If a person gets prematurely awakened, it can ruin his/her life. Jesus randomly woke up and offended lots of people. I suspect he didn't know anything about enlightenment. If a person knows about enlightenment, they can handle it much better. I don't think everyone needs to be enlightened, nor is everyone inclined to pursue it. From the Absolute perspective it doesn't matter what we do. After the dinosaurs died there is still life on Earth. Consciousness can produce life out nothing.

How does practicing spirituality make you feel? Do you notice a difference from when your consciousness was lower? 

 Thanks for reading! 

Hi, Deep

My personal experience is that spirituality, or stripping away the onion of Ego and roles, gives me a dimension of safety during daily life, because I can always centre myself in nothingness.

It allows me to accept things with open arms and judge less a situation as good or bad and just try to instead "surf" the situation by observing my inner state and deep breathing.

Remembering the Atman in daily living is like an amazing tool that lets you live through things in absolute peace, rather than make you incredibly stressed and unhappy, if you believed yourself to be the persona in the dream.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Dodoster

[Hsinav]

1 hour ago, Deep said:

Once a person awakens he can be aware and others would think he is crazy. 

Well there is a lot of people waking up on the planet now and I don't think people generally look at them as crazy human beings. 

Except the crazy human beings 

 

[Hsinav]

@Deep

Once you have avoken, you don´t have to tell everyone everything.

[Dodo]

39 minutes ago, Vanish said:

@Deep

Once you have avoken, you don´t have to tell everyone everything.

Yes,  silence is always normal. If you are the calmest motherf* in the room, other's judgements just fall off you like dust.

Judgements others make of you, as being not normal or crazy, they all just dissolve and burn in the fire of the eternal nothingness or Atman. 

Everything is so small and shallow it loses all significance. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Dodoster

[Prabhaker]

1 hour ago, Deep said:

Isn't it nice to fit in to a certain extent? I mean you don't have to be a slave to society. You just have to make them think, you're one of them. In reality, you're awareness is different from theirs. You can pretend to believe in everything they do. 

I do not mean that you have to be stubborn; if you see something is right, go along with it. But the moment you realize that something is not right, then even if the whole world feels it is right, it is not right for you. And then stick to your position - that will give you stamina, strength, a certain integrity.

Why have very few people become enlightened in the world? The reason is very simple: they did not dare to remain misfits, condemned, dishonored, rejected their whole life. 

So don't compromise at any point, because the point of compromise makes you weak: you lose your individuality. But don't be egoistic. Be humble. If you want to be an egoist, then sooner or later you will have to compromise. Certainly it needs courage, a tremendously strong sense for freedom; otherwise, you cannot stand alone against the whole world.

[Nahm]

@Deep It goes full circle to living your life. If you aren't satisfied with your life, it will assist in opening up your mind, and therefore options. If you are satisfied with your life, what led you to ask the question / topic? Also, welcome to the fold. In regards to higher consciousness vs lower consciousness- 

lower consciousness conversation - "you're an idiot, no you're an idiot! I'm right, no I'm right! You're the reason I'm angry, no you're the reason I'm depressed!"

higher consciousness conversation - "You are so beautiful, aw I love you. We are sooo lucky, yes, we are. It's really beautiful out today, yes, it is"

What quality do you want for your life?

All the big answers are found in leather bound books.

 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Nahm

[Deep]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

@Deep If you are satisfied with your life, what led you to ask the question / topic? Also, welcome to the fold. In regards to higher consciousness vs lower consciousness- 

I've been having some problems with my ego. 

[Nahm]

@Deep Well, at least the ego is thankful right? 

[Galyna]

16 hours ago, Prabhaker said:

Unless you are awakened , you can't know what is good and what is bad. 

The ego is the principle of immorality and your so-called morality hangs on the principle of ego. It is based on immorality. But you have been taught to be this way – be the way society wants you to be and society will respect you. If you want the respect, never rebel; if you want the respect, bow down to the order of society.

Do you remember the people who killed Socrates?  They were the respectable people, they were the guardians of morality in society. Do you remember the name of the judge who sentenced Socrates, who ordered that he had to be poisoned? Do you know who these people were? From where they came? They were respectable people, they were the guardians of morality, they were the protectors of society, they were the leaders and the politicians and the priests

The man who was the opponent, who had brought the case against Socrates in the court, said that he was corrupting the minds of the young people. That was the crime that he was doing. He was corrupting the minds of the young people.

Who were the men who killed al-Hillaj Mansoor? Their names are forgotten. And they were the pinnacles of morality, they were the paragons of morality, they were the people who were afraid that al-Hillaj Mansoor was destroying morality, religion; that he was a dangerous man and society had to be protected from him.

Morality is a sort of decoration of the ego. Yes, through morality you can cultivate great virtues, but you will never be virtuous. Through morality you can become very talented in certain directions but those talents will remain unconscious. Morality cannot bring awareness because morality is not based on enlightenment.

Morality is like the shadow, religion is the real figure. When religion is there, morality comes on its own – it has to come, there is no other possibility. But if morality is there, there is no necessity for religion to be there. You can become a moral person without becoming religious at all. You can have good qualities. You can be honest, sincere, true, non-violent, but that doesn’t make you religious. If you are religious all moral qualities simply follow you.

When you are moral you have to manage those good qualities continuously they have to be maintained otherwise they will disappear. A moral man has to manage his honesty continuously because every moment there is a fear that he may function dishonestly. The dishonesty has not disappeared, it has been repressed. It is there, it is waiting in the base-ment of his being for its opportunity, and once the opportunity is there it will assert itself with vengeance.

I agree.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Galyna

[Leo Gura]

What's wrong is that you suffer from your own ignorance. If you want to keep suffering, then there's nothing wrong. Go right ahead.

[Bodhi123]

22 hours ago, Prabhaker said:

Morality is like the shadow, religion is the real figure. When religion is there, morality comes on its own – it has to come, there is no other possibility.

How can this statement be considered true when there are many instances that contradict it?

For example, ISIS (aka Islamic State) justifies their actions by citing religious beliefs. Also, the Catholic Church is a religious institution yet many Catholic priests have abused children.

I ask this question respectfully. I know you will give an intelligent response.

[Prabhaker]

3 hours ago, Bodhi123 said:

For example, ISIS (aka Islamic State) justifies their actions by citing religious beliefs. Also, the Catholic Church is a religious institution yet many Catholic priests have abused children.

Religion is not ritual. It is not something that you do. It is something that you become. So there is always a possibility of a false religion existing somewhere in the society. False religion is when the inner transformation has been substituted by outer ritual. Then you go on doing things and those things will become a deep-rooted habit with you, but nothing is achieved. People go to the church and the temple, and they repeat the same prayers again and again. Nothing is happening to them. Somewhere on the way they have missed; somewhere on the way they have lost the real coin — and they have substituted it by a false coin.

Remember this, that the real, authentic religion is concerned with the being, not with the doing. It has nothing to do with your outer way of life. It has something to do with your center. Of course, when the center changes, the periphery follows; your outer life also changes. But the reverse is not true: you can change the periphery — the center will not change. And you win live the life of a hypocrite, a life of hypocrisy. You will have a different periphery from the center, not only different but just the opposite, the very contrary. And you will be split in two.

Religion is not ritual. Remember that. Religion is an inner consciousness, an inner awakening. Many things on the surface will change, but the change must occur within you first.

The true religion is existential. Buddha lived it, Jesus lived it -- but remember, Jesus was not a Christian and Buddha was not a Buddhist, he had never heard of the word. The truly religious people have been simply religious, they have not been dogmatic. It has always happened to only a few people and then it disappears from the earth because the intellectuals immediately grab it and they start making beautiful ideologies out of it -- neat and clean, logical. In that very effort they destroy its beauty. They create philosophies, and religion disappears.

3 hours ago, Bodhi123 said:

ISIS (aka Islamic State)

ISIS talks about Jihad. It is very easy to die for religion but very difficult to live for it. Actually, it is always easy to die for some cause. All that is needed is a kind of madness. Dying happens in a moment, so even a single moment of insanity is quite enough. But to live, awareness and wakefulness are essential.

Only those who live for religion know religion. Those who martyr themselves for religion do not know it at all.

3 hours ago, Bodhi123 said:

Catholic priests have abused children

You cannot understand Jesus through a priest. He himself has not known. He has read, he has thought, he has contemplated, he has speculated, philosophized. Yes, he has a very cultivated mind, he knows the scripture; but to know the scripture is not to know Jesus. To know Jesus you will have to know your innermost nothingness. Without knowing it you cannot make anybody else acquainted with Jesus.

Repressing your desires and destroying your desires is not the way of celibacy, because if you repress your desires you will remain hung-up with them. Repression can never bring freedom. Repression makes you a slave. Repress anything, and that will become your master. So the so-called celibates in the monasteries are continuously obsessed with sex.