Does it mean that people who don't do psychedelics can't be enlightened?

[Pudgey]

@Dumuzzi You know nothing about psychedelics, enlightenment, awakening, or spirituality. You are horrified, petrified, and fearful of psychedelics. You project that onto others and resort to demonizing, instead of having balls and facing your ultimate fears. Yoga, meditation, and being a book reader still haven't enlightened you - so why should I consider your perspective?

[vishnusavestheday]

@Pudgey 

Are you grasping that enlightenment isn't out there for everybody else?

[Dumuzzi]

@Pudgey You're projecting your own insecurities on to me.

[Pudgey]

@Dumuzzi Sure. 

@vishnusavestheday Never said such. 

 

[Rafael Thundercat]

 

[halfknots]

On 1/13/2023 at 8:01 AM, Sincerity said:

It's gonna be much harder. But not impossible. (btw, define enlightened)

I guess You could say it's like this: psychedelics provide understanding and groundwork provides embodiment. It's kind of theory (but experienced directly) vs practice. Both are important. Psychedelics are AMAZING for showing You what's possible, states You would never be able to access with traditional methods. Also they help open You up, help You temporarily go beyond your fears and attachments, bring stuff to the surface, all that.

Without psychedelics your groundwork might be wrong, misguided, uninspired. Without groundwork You are, well, ungrounded. The theory doesn't stick in your mind and make a difference for your everyday life. It doesn't change You on a deep level.

In theory You don't need psychedelics but in practice I think You do. If You want to go really far.

I would say the exact opposite, that groundwork provides understanding and psychedelics provide embodiment. Integration is the marriage of understanding and embodiment.

[Pudgey]

Psychedelics provides the whole thing * INFINITY. 

Everything is far inferior to get access to INFINITY compared to psychedelics currently. 

An intense desire for truth combined with psychedelics beats all human-spiritual practices. Including: all forms of Yoga, meditation, breathing techniques, buddha, religion, chakra system,  etc.. INFINITY bypasses all gurus, yogi's, spiritual teachers and religious figures, etc..

INFINITY is all you need. 

And unfortunately, sitting your your ass and meditating ain't enough. 

Any human-made system is useless and inferior. 

[vishnusavestheday]

@Pudgey

On 1/27/2023 at 0:00 PM, Pudgey said:

Including: all forms of Yoga, meditation, breathing techniques, buddha, religion, chakra system,  etc

Are musical instruments spiritual teachers? Is writing a spiritual teacher? What about rock climbing? Those are definitely spiritual practices. They probably fall under a meditation practice by your conditions. What would your spirituality be if humanity just listened to you and only took psychedelics? What would you tell the human population if they'd gotten rid of their techniques before they'd built society at all?

You are literally saying psychedelics are better than any activity in the entire universe for truth realization. It feels like you are totally desireless to live in "inferiority" or "uselessly" to the unenlightened masses. 

 

You are literally that guy who would rather take a psychedelic for free than go to the moon for free!

Do you really like being that guy?

On 1/27/2023 at 0:00 PM, Pudgey said:

 

And unfortunately, sitting your your ass and meditating ain't enough. 

Any human-made system is useless and inferior. 

Enlightenment is a lot of things-- apart from an understanding of infinity, it also is an ability to eloquently provide wisdom to others and relate to their conditional pains. But since you are trying to destroy historically spiritual systems you might be trying to redefine enlightenment itself also. 

 

How could you even know what enlightenment was if you weren't alrieady shitting on the thousands of dead enlightened people who spent their time doing the inferior work to explain to you what they couldn't possibly know anyway about enlightenment (according to your reasoning?) ?

 

Let's say you are trying to redefine enlightenment. Why are you trying to do that? Why not define something entirely different? Wouldn't the enlightened thing to do be to pinnacalize something higher than an enlightenment system?

 

If you can't do that, then human spiritual systems do have merit because you've already forfeited yourself to being spiritual on some grounds.

[The Mystical Man]

On 1/13/2023 at 1:37 PM, Tyler Robinson said:

Does it mean that people who don't do psychedelics can't be enlightened? 

People who do psychedelics can't be enlightened. People who do psychedelics tend to turn into irreversible disasters.

[Salvijus]

5 hours ago, The Mystical Man said:

People who do psychedelics can't be enlightened. People who do psychedelics tend to turn into irreversible disasters.

lol

Especially true for those who don’t have solid foundation and meditation practice going on imo.

Edited January 31, 2023 by Salvijus

[The Mystical Man]

On 1/31/2023 at 6:34 AM, Salvijus said:

Especially true for those who don’t have solid foundation and meditation practice going on imo.

“If you build a house, you had better build that house on a good foundation, because otherwise even a beautiful house is going to have a propensity to fall apart.” - Adyashanti

[Pudgey]

@vishnusavestheday

Human spirituality has merit only for survival - most yoga and meditation are not used for awakening but for cleansing anxiety, improving focus, and other human survival matters. When used for seeking awakening, it becomes only reserved for the spiritual elites and gurus. Most questions go unanswered and the human games continue. 

Human Spirituality involves limited beliefs, conceptual systems, and groupthink -- it's all a survival cluster-f**k for ego and sometimes, corruption and greed. Once awakening/enlightenment is accomplished through the means of human spirituality, it takes years to achieve and a significant degree of personal sacrifice.

Significant Sacrifice ->  Limited Spiritual Attainment

With human spirituality, It's also much easier to fall into the guru trap and "spiritual teacher" wanna-be. If a guru dares give his student just an ounce of DMT, more than half will leave the class. Psychedelics are so radical and profound, that spiritual teachers wouldn't dare sacrifice their income. Instead, demonizing is much better. 

Human spirituality creates echo chambers and spiritual figures that seem "awe-inspired" and "magical" - when in reality, they are just another LIMITED-human, teaching other LIMITED humans how to be more LIMITED. Because you cannot use LIMITING strategies to reach all aspects of INFINITY. 

These strategies, by their nature, will only get you so far with MUCH MORE to sacrifice than to GAIN. 

The whole idea behind a psychedelic is to attain TRUTH without the BULLSHIT. It's direct and straight to your FACE. You have nothing to lose besides your human self and much more to gain. 

Psychedelics are an amplifier to consciousness like TRT is an amplifier to testosterone. Yoga, meditation, spiritual books, and all human spiritual practices are amplifiers to the LIMITED. 

Psychedelics go straight to God without a book, a yoga pose, a meditation, a religion, or a person said or what a person has done. You can ignore all people and all human practices and still attain YOURSELF as GOD. 

It's TRUE SPIRITUAL LIBERATION, knowing that INFINITY can only TEACH ITSELF. YOU NEED NO OTHER. 

Nothing is reserved for X person or Y group. 
Nothing is reserved for X practices or Y ritual 
Nothing is reserved for X guru or Y spiritual teacher
Nothing is reserved for X special person or Y special person

No one needs to be quoted or read. 

There is no egotistical axis.

Everyone can attain it anytime they want and unfortunately, it is much HARDER and much WORSE to do with yoga and meditation compared to psychedelics. 

On 1/30/2023 at 7:27 PM, The Mystical Man said:

People who do psychedelics can't be enlightened. People who do psychedelics tend to turn into irreversible disasters.

Same with quoting predominately white-male spiritual teachers - which is much worse than a glass of ayahuasca mixed with 5-MEO-DMT.

I rather have the latter than listen to echo chambers and "deeply spiritual" teachers in the LIMITED. None of these are by any means deep. They are spiritually LIMITED and rooted in mostly survival. Listening to humans instead of your GOD self is embarrassing, to say the least.

But, you must have the courage to go at it on your own, with no one besides YOURSELF. And unfortunately, spiritual books give you the group think and hope you need for your own survival. People who reject the fastest attainable way to INFINITY are usually scared, fearful, and want other human validation such as books, listening to quotes, and videos. 

Pedestalizing other humans are a weak way of spirituality because it leads to ego-grooming, ego-validation, and attention-seeking. 

Human spirituality is weak, including all books you've read.

You are imagining the humans you quote. 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Pudgey
God.

[SeaMonster]

On 1/30/2023 at 7:27 PM, The Mystical Man said:

People who do psychedelics can't be enlightened. People who do psychedelics tend to turn into irreversible disasters.

Occasionally you have SOME people who will do a psychedelic and will permanently break through to some first stage of enlightenment, but this is relatively rare, and full enlightenment is virtually impossible.  

Here are the problems with psychedelics and enlightenment:

- If you suffer from narcissistic personality disorder, you are almost certain to experience full blown (Jungian) inflation, i.e. your ego is absorbed by the archetype of the divine (i.e. Cosmic Ego.)  This is most of your cult leaders, certain rock stars (like Jim Morrison e.g.), even some philosophers.

- If you suffer from antisocial personality disorder, you may read the Bhagavad Gita literally and conclude since there is "no doer" you may kill people -- like Charles Manson.

- Confusing having an experience of nonduality or some mystical insight with actually living in a nondual state 24/7/365.  Since the surrender required for any genuine enlightenment cannot be forced by psychedelics (there is always an element of voluntary surrender, or braving the fear of ego death even with psychedelic trips) most people return to an egoic state most of the time.  

- Again, the very psychology of psychedelic enlightenment is highly misguided.  It removes agency, like psychedelics are ACTING UPON YOU to cause enlightenment.  This isn't how it works, and e.g. why some people who do psychedelics discount the experience in materialistic terms and return to be e.g. atheist materialists.  In other words, you have to VOLUNTARiLY surrender the ego and all its precious attachments, including cherished beliefs and enter an entirely uncharted territory where you are unmoored from everything that defined the old "you".

This isn't something that can be FORCED upon you via a chemical rearrangement of the brain.  Once you come-down you may decide to interpret the experience in whatever way you choose, and some choose the blue pill a la The Matrix.

 

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by SeaMonster

[The Mystical Man]

2 hours ago, Pudgey said:

Same with quoting predominately white-male spiritual teachers - which is much worse than a glass of ayahuasca mixed with 5-MEO-DMT.

I'd rather quote a wise old man, and aspire to become a wise old man, instead of taking psychedelics and becoming an inflated ego.

[SeaMonster]

2 hours ago, Pudgey said:

Same with quoting predominately white-male spiritual teachers - which is much worse than a glass of ayahuasca mixed with 5-MEO-DMT.

Why? Are Asian or African or female spiritual leaders somehow communicating a different message about the nature of reality? Cause I haven't noticed a difference.

[Devin]

https://youtu.be/SR5FCNYkcPI

Psychedelics and Consciousness

Edited February 2, 2023 by Devin