Does it mean that people who don't do psychedelics can't be enlightened?

[Tyler Robinson]

There's a heavy enforcement on psychedelics here. Why do I get the impression that people who do psychedelics are treated like they are great spiritual seekers here. 

Does it mean that people who don't do psychedelics can't be enlightened? 

 

[Holykael]

Enlightenment happened to lots of people who don't do psychedelics. Psychedelics just give you the permanent states of enlightenment in a few hours

[Breakingthewall]

If you don't do psychedelics, you'll hit a wall in front of you. the wall is you, all your attachment and your fear. It is as if it were a solid structure, extremely strong. psychedelics break it, then it is built again. when you do this many times, you begin to understand what you are. doing this without psychedelics is very difficult. to dissolve attachments, you should really let go. that is, if you are attached to relationships with others, you should lock yourself up in solitude. if you are attached to the fear of death, you should put yourself in danger of death, if you are attached to your body, you should stop eating. etc. It's easier to take a psychedelic than to do that, and it works.

[BlessedLion]

@Breakingthewall well none of that is necessary even if you’re not doing psychedelics. All of that will get purified through meditation, but ya I agree with you that psychs can bust through “blind spots” much quicker

[Sincerity]

3 hours ago, Tyler Robinson said:

Does it mean that people who don't do psychedelics can't be enlightened? 

It's gonna be much harder. But not impossible. (btw, define enlightened)

I guess You could say it's like this: psychedelics provide understanding and groundwork provides embodiment. It's kind of theory (but experienced directly) vs practice. Both are important. Psychedelics are AMAZING for showing You what's possible, states You would never be able to access with traditional methods. Also they help open You up, help You temporarily go beyond your fears and attachments, bring stuff to the surface, all that.

Without psychedelics your groundwork might be wrong, misguided, uninspired. Without groundwork You are, well, ungrounded. The theory doesn't stick in your mind and make a difference for your everyday life. It doesn't change You on a deep level.

In theory You don't need psychedelics but in practice I think You do. If You want to go really far.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Sincerity

[BlessedLion]

@Sincerity really good explanation!

[Yimpa]

14 hours ago, Tyler Robinson said:

There's a heavy enforcement on psychedelics here. Why do I get the impression that people who do psychedelics are treated like they are great spiritual seekers here. 

Does it mean that people who don't do psychedelics can't be enlightened? 

On the “meta level”, the person and the psychedelic are both imagined. 

[Tyler Robinson]

@Sincerity good explanation. 

 

[Thought Art]

Substance like 5meo rockets you into infinite love, safety and bliss. God… infinite forgiveness and truth. 
 

between 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Thought Art

[Sincerity]

@BlessedLion @Tyler Robinson

[Flyboy]

On 1/13/2023 at 9:01 AM, Sincerity said:

It's gonna be much harder. But not impossible. (btw, define enlightened)

I guess You could say it's like this: psychedelics provide understanding and groundwork provides embodiment. It's kind of theory (but experienced directly) vs practice. Both are important. Psychedelics are AMAZING for showing You what's possible, states You would never be able to access with traditional methods. Also they help open You up, help You temporarily go beyond your fears and attachments, bring stuff to the surface, all that.

Without psychedelics your groundwork might be wrong, misguided, uninspired. Without groundwork You are, well, ungrounded. The theory doesn't stick in your mind and make a difference for your everyday life. It doesn't change You on a deep level.

In theory You don't need psychedelics but in practice I think You do. If You want to go really far.

I disagree.  I think psychedelics CAN be useful tools for people in certain paradigms, as they can help you see that there really is more to the world than materialism and logic.  But they are the beginning of the journey, not the end and not even the middle.  You must decide, with all your being, that you want to come Home, to know Truth, to know your true nature.  That doesn't mean doing 5-Meo.  That's easy, and anyone could do that.  The question must consume you, in every sensation in every moment.  The question must become you.  That is the door to awakening and enlightenment.  Beyond that, there is a gargantuan amount of deep subtle work needed... no less than the letting go of every single attachment, aversion, and craving, in every sensation of the 6 sense doors, until no trace of self or suffering remains.  Here all dualities collapse, all separation ends, all agency is lost, and there isn't a "you" to experience any of that.  Deep dualities like real and unreal, being and nonbeing, life and death, the one and the many... all dissolve.  What is left is just empty luminous effortless appearance, without even a trace of time or space.  Its nature is mystery, its taste is love.  That is enlightenment.

Embodiment is an idea of the ego.  Realize this Nature, and it will permeate every crevice of your being.  Effort is not required.  It is in fact the absence of effort that makes this possible.

[Sincerity]

57 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

I disagree.  I think psychedelics CAN be useful tools for people in certain paradigms, as they can help you see that there really is more to the world than materialism and logic.  But they are the beginning of the journey, not the end and not even the middle.  You must decide, with all your being, that you want to come Home, to know Truth, to know your true nature.  That doesn't mean doing 5-Meo.  That's easy, and anyone could do that.

Easy? Anyone could do that? Nah, bro.

Of course You must decide that You want to know Truth. But that doesn't exclude using 5-MeO or other substances as tools.

I feel like You've got some misguided ideas about psychedelics. I suggest You investigate these beliefs (which You probably got from other people).

59 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

The question must consume you, in every sensation in every moment.  The question must become you.  That is the door to awakening and enlightenment.  Beyond that, there is a gargantuan amount of deep subtle work needed... no less than the letting go of every single attachment, aversion, and craving, in every sensation of the 6 sense doors, until no trace of self or suffering remains.  Here all dualities collapse, all separation ends, all agency is lost, and there isn't a "you" to experience any of that.  Deep dualities like real and unreal, being and nonbeing, life and death, the one and the many... all dissolve.  What is left is just empty luminous effortless appearance, without even a trace of time or space.  Its nature is mystery, its taste is love.

That's part of what I consider embodiment to be. What I call groundwork You call "deep subtle work".

1 hour ago, Flyboy said:

Realize this Nature, and it will permeate every crevice of your being.  Effort is not required.  It is in fact the absence of effort that makes this possible.

In practice effort is required, because You are not yet capable of effortlessness.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

It all depends how much You want to understand. I'd say that without psychedelics You're missing out.

[Flyboy]

@Sincerity I've done plenty of psychedelics.  It is not the way to Freedom, and purporting it as such is a disservice.  Fascinating, sure, but do not call this enlightenment because it is not, nor is the work done on psychedelics sufficient to wake up, not even close.

[Sincerity]

35 minutes ago, Flyboy said:

@Sincerity I've done plenty of psychedelics.  It is not the way to Freedom, and purporting it as such is a disservice.  Fascinating, sure, but do not call this enlightenment because it is not, nor is the work done on psychedelics sufficient to wake up, not even close.

?‍♂️ Who said working with psychedelics is enough to wake up? Call what enlightenment? Who said anything is a way to Freedom?

Maybe I should clarify that by groundwork/embodiment I don't mean just integrating trips, but mainly doing stuff in everyday life, meditation, right living, mindfulness, contemplation, learning, surrender and letting go, etc.

Steering others away from psychedelics is a disservice.

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, Flyboy said:

@Sincerity I've done plenty of psychedelics.  It is not the way to Freedom, and purporting it as such is a disservice.  Fascinating, sure, but do not call this enlightenment because it is not, nor is the work done on psychedelics sufficient to wake up, not even close.

7 hours ago, Flyboy said:

 

psychedelics are a fundamental tool for understanding. what we are is extremely complex. extremely challenging. I agree that focusing exclusively on psychedelics is a mistake. the path is global. and within that path, psychedelics are a great help. For me, enlightenment is the total alignment of what we are, the absolute understanding that is the cause of freedom from attachment and fear. This is not within everyone's reach. I would say that it cannot be forced. We can move forward, maturing, but it will only happen if it's time, from what I see, it's something extremely rare

[Eternal Unity]

@Tyler Robinson On the contrary.

[Gennadiy1981]

Prior psychedelics, I tried many different approaches and nothing was really working towards awakening or enlightenment as how you would say. Even meditation was not the same. After psychedelics, things became much smoother, even meditation went to a different level. To me psychedelics just gave me a bump to a different level from where working on self acquiring just became so much easy. I cannot imagine being in a state where I am at without psychedelics. It’s the greatest thing world has to offer to us, all it is a great tool to boost ourselves to a next level on the path of enlightenment. 

[Dumuzzi]

@Tyler Robinson Psychedelics are an accelerant at best.

They can show a person a glimpse of enlightenment, but they can't replace the inner work that is necessary to get there. Same with shaktipat actually. 

DMT is actually endogenous, it is normally released by the pineal gland upon death, to help with the transition into the afterlife but it is also released through the practice of Yoga, Tantra and other mystical traditions. During a Kundalini awakening, once the serpent power reaches the Ajna Chakra, in other words, the pineal gland, it will start secreting DMT on its own, more or less continuously, depending on what is needed. That is why and how Yogis can spend months or years in caves just meditating, they're essentially tripping on DMT constantly. 

However, it is important to note, that DMT is just the physical manifestation of an interdimensional substance called soma or amrita in Sanskrit, nectar or ambrosia in Greek. Exogenous DMT only mimics the effect of real Soma, it does not lead to true enlightenment for various complicated reasons. 

[Pudgey]

@Dumuzzi Bullshit mumbo-jumbo. You know nothing about psychedelics if you think it's an accelerant and not a complete, total replacement. 

 

 

 

 

[Dumuzzi]

@Pudgey It's completely delusional to claim that one can reach enlightenment by taking drugs. There is no tradition out there, not one, that claims that. At best, some shamanic traditions might use drugs to force a change of perspective, help shatter the false concept of ego, help with shamanic journeying, assist in reaching altered states of consciousness. At most, this may help to speed up or simplify certain aspects of the process, whilst at the same time, carrying considerable risk.