Jeffrey Epstein from a Spiritual POV

[michaelcycle00]

Since God allows everything, including his existence, and more importantly his actions, then... if you've integrated God consciousness into your everyday life or are at least trying to embody it as much as you can, does it make sense to hate him for what he did? Or look at him as less?

What about his clients?

Society of course tells us it's incredibly wrong to do such things and that those acts are irrefutably heinous crimes. The lowest of the low. Now here comes the kicker:

We know God loves everything equally, for if that wasn't the case everything couldn't exist (for whatever reason). But, relatively speaking, there are things that are more in accordance with God's love than others. For example: to love another instead of killing them, to be understanding and compassionate instead of judgemental, to give instead of taking... you get it.

With this in mind, could an adult and a child love each other in all the different ways human adults can and do and have it actually be fine and fully embody God's love even from a relative perspective? Or will it always be something "wrong" no matter which way you look at it? Would the adult always be the one taking advantage and the child a victim who will inevitably grow up to be traumatized?

[BipolarGrowth]

[TwistedOntic]

You're flying too close to the sun. You still need to ground and balance yourself in the society you live in. There's rules for a reason, realize this so you don't spew out this nonsense.. 

[vladorion]

The desire to fuck children cannot arise in a healthy mind.

Calling it love is ridiculous.

[michaelcycle00]

@BipolarGrowth lmao, you know... as I finished typing this I debated myself for like a full 5 minutes on whether or not I should put a disclaimer, something like "Americans, please take a deep breath and open your mind because you're about to get triggered or else stop right here and leave this thread", or something similar because I know your kind like the palm of my hand. Fits Canadians and Western Europeans as well.

 

13 hours ago, TwistedOntic said:

You're flying too close to the sun. You still need to ground and balance yourself in the society you live in. There's rules for a reason, realize this so you don't spew out this nonsense.. 

You guys are so predictable, saw these replies coming from the other side of the planet. Also, please put your biases aside when you're reading provocative material otherwise you won't even allow yourself to actually digest and understand what you're reading, which is what you just did since your answer has nothing to do with any of my questions and is instead just a baseless attack from a close-minded person.

Edited January 13, 2023 by michaelcycle00

[michaelcycle00]

5 minutes ago, vladorion said:

The desire to fuck children cannot arise in a healthy mind.

Calling it love is ridiculous.

Oh great, another one. Read it a couple more times, maybe it'll stick by then. 

[roopepa]

2 hours ago, michaelcycle00 said:

Since God allows everything

God does not "allow" anything, cause there is no things. All 'things' are falsehood, that which is not. How can you allow something that is not?

2 hours ago, michaelcycle00 said:

does it make sense to hate him for what he did?

The illusion is that there is a he who did something. So neither hating, loving, nor accepting "what he did" makes sense.

What makes sense is a correction in perception. Seeing your Brother as who he is in truth, not a separate self, a body, a doer.

 

[TwistedOntic]

There is consequences in every single action, and having sexual intercourse with a severely underdeveloped person will, more times than not, produce suffering. You're not thinking Holistically. You need to stay in touch with your Morality, which is something you severely lack given how you responded to all the critism here. 

Also saying this kind of stuff, especially under a monitored medium like the Internet, in a culture that heavily demonise and punishes it is not very Wise. 

[caspex]

Quote

With this in mind, could an adult and a child love each other in all the different ways human adults can and do and have it actually be fine and fully embody God's love even from a relative perspective? Or will it always be something "wrong" no matter which way you look at it? Would the adult always be the one taking advantage and the child a victim who will inevitably grow up to be traumatized?

You need to understand the difference between Absolute and Relative. In the absolute, even the depths of misery where you can't even kill yourself it's that bad, is absolute love. But does that mean you'll go for it? I am telling you that you won't. No matter how conscious you become, there will be a state so terrible you'll never wanna visit it, let alone think about it.

Now similarly, sure absolutely all this pedophile shit is absolute love, but what does that really mean? It means all that misery and trauma, that we all hate, that the child suffers, is a part of it, and is absolute love as well. I hate that, you hate that, the child hates that, the society hates that, so we'd rather eliminate it, because it benefits next to no one. What you're asking doesn't have much to do with God's love because what you're asking is, if all that, is possible without that trauma and misery.

I don't think it's possible. Because think about it. It's not about just pedophilia but sex in general. Sex is something that requires a lot of energy and usually much of your time as well. Anyone engaged in lots and lots of sex, is trading that time and energy for other means of using it, such as developing yourself. A child is developing, if the child uses their time and energy for things such as this, they won't grow right, at all. Add on top of that all the shit a pedophile would do to them to abuse them and fulfill their own sexual fantasies and kinks? You can't prevent that. You cannot. If someone is more powerful than the other, your asking them to exploit the weak. Exploitation is one of the deepest desires of humans, and those are the kind of things that usually comes out what you are engaged in sexual fantasies.

Even if we take an exceptionally rare circumstance where the adult would genuinely invest in the growth of the child he's fucking, it's always gonna be exploitation, because a kid is dumber than an adult, and if you use your superior intellect to convince them that it's alright, you're not really caring about their free will You'd rather fuck a person who's atleast as intelligent as you in the sense that they can give you consent in the same way you'll give them consent. It's exploitation as well when you manipulate a person who's mentally disabled or in an intoxicated state, so that they can't give consent in the same way that you give them consent. No matter how loving your intentions are, you can't prevent the exploitation part when it comes to fucking a kid. A kid can love you back but that love is frankly just attachment, that you will exploit and use to justify your own selfish desires. A kid's emotions, intellect and even selfhood don't all blossom till they are in their later teens. And all that being underdeveloped, prevents the kid from loving you back in the same way that you love them.
Taking advantage of anyone's more limited free will is gonna be 'wrong' even in the highest of the relative sense.

Once you know all this, you wouldn't fuck a kid frankly because you respect the kid and their autonomy as another being, or God. And it's the same with anyone else. You respect them, is why you need their consent, in the same way that you'd give them back your consent.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Swarnim

[Leo Gura]

God is too intelligent to care what silly things humans do.

God doesn't care where you stick your dick.

But your fellow man does. And it is him you gotta deal with, not God.

Trafficking minors for sex acts is about as low as one's character gets. It's not like Epstein fell in love with one child. He was just using them as personal sex objects.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Leo Gura

[michaelcycle00]

17 minutes ago, roopepa said:

God does not "allow" anything, cause there is no things. All 'things' are falsehood, that which is not. How can you allow something that is not?

It gets tricky here, I can't fully comprehend but I suppose you're referring to the Absolute. I'm speaking in terms of relativity, but still within the perception of God and "goodness". I say relativity because that's where the duality between good and bad can exist. 

 

19 minutes ago, roopepa said:

The illusion is that there is a he who did something. So neither hating, loving, nor accepting "what he did" makes sense.

What makes sense is a correction in perception. Seeing your Brother as who he is in truth, not a separate self, a body, a doer.

 

Well, you're basically just dodging the questions by saying "it is what it is" i.e. the Absolute, beingness. However, I'm not concerned with the Absolute at the moment, but, what then is he in truth? Can you put it into words?

 

21 minutes ago, TwistedOntic said:

There is consequences in every single action, and having sexual intercourse with a severely underdeveloped person will, more times than not, produce suffering. You're not thinking Holistically. You need to stay in touch with your Morality, which is something you severely lack given how you responded to all the critism here. 

Also saying this kind of stuff, especially under a monitored medium like the Internet, in a culture that heavily demonise and punishes it is not very Wise. 

Dude, just leave it. You're just throwing things at the wall and hoping something sticks. You're answering a question I did not ask. If you can't even read, there's no use in arguing with you 

 

[michaelcycle00]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

God is too intelligent to care what silly things humans do.

God doesn't care where you stick your dick.

But your fellow man does. And it is him you gotta deal with, not God.

Trafficking minors for sex acts is about as low as one's character gets.

I read in Conversations with God (the first book), that despite God having no bias, there are still people in the world who act more in accordance with Love and Truth. My question is, could an act like that ever be seen in that light? Not necessarily Epstein but say a client of his' that for whatever reason is truthfully in love with a child and then the child in love with him. Believe me, typing this makes my skin crawl a little, but I'm a person who likes to understand every perspective no matter how bad it is in a non-biased way. 

[caspex]

@michaelcycle00 I edited my reply so please re-read it and let me know what you think!

[roopepa]

34 minutes ago, michaelcycle00 said:

It gets tricky here, I can't fully comprehend but I suppose you're referring to the Absolute. I'm speaking in terms of relativity, but still within the perception of God and "goodness". I say relativity because that's where the duality between good and bad can exist. 

I speak of truth vs. illusion.

It's not that the duality of good and bad exists in the relative but not in absolute. Good and bad does not exist, and that's it. The world is an illusion. All things are an illusion. Illusion means 'that which is not'; God does not create the world or allow anything in the world. Cause the world never even happens. There just is no such thing.

40 minutes ago, michaelcycle00 said:

Well, you're basically just dodging the questions by saying "it is what it is" i.e. the Absolute, beingness.

Saying that there is no Santa Claus is not "dodging the question".

This is not "bypassing" or "Neo Advaita" etc. It's the truth.

52 minutes ago, michaelcycle00 said:

what then is he in truth? Can you put it into words?

The Enlightened One.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, michaelcycle00 said:

I read in Conversations with God (the first book), that despite God having no bias, there are still people in the world who act more in accordance with Love and Truth.

Yeah, that would be what I called Character or Integrity.

Quote

My question is, could an act like that ever be seen in that light?

Sex trafficking of minors? No

Quote

Not necessarily Epstein but say a client of his' that for whatever reason is truthfully in love with a child and then the child in love with him.

No because Epstein and his clients were sociopaths who use humans transactionally to satisfy their own personal cravings without no consideration for the other's well-being.

People of high Integrity would not behave that way.

Using others as sex objects cannot be aligned with Integrity.

Notice that not one of them has come forward to admit it. Which means they are lying about it. Which means they know it's out of integrity.

If these acts were truly done with integrity it would not have been secretive and people would come forward and take ownership of it. Of course they do the exactly opposite and hide everything.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Tyler Robinson]

I don't know why this place constantly confuses forgiveness with condoning of bad actions. 

Where's the moral compass? 

And what sort of a spirituality are we exploring on this forum which is devoid of a basic fundamental moral compass? 

 

[Rafael Thundercat]

The selfish mind dont want Truth and Love, it wants to rationalize everything in other to keep being selfish and it will burie the feeling of shama and guilt the maximum it can in order to keep the satisfaction of its desires: Lust, Guttoneri,Lazyness, Robbery, Webcam bussiness, Human traffic and so fort. How do I know it? I did it in some aspects of my life and still do in others. 

The point is: If I ask myself: Did you ever visited Russia? The answer is No! I know that I never visited Russia. So I know that saying yes is lying to myself. 

So you can create elaborate Absolutist arguments in your mind to justify pushing your Dick in the Vagina of a child that did not reached the stage to have intercourse and that don't  have the congnitive capacity to know what is true love from lustfull manipulation. You can try to lie to yourself but you know your are lying, and you do it because serves you. Is not only man, woman to. There is a Netlix Doc about two twin brothers abused by their mother. Man what a story. 

Is not about asking God if "he" cares about "your "fantasies, is about if "you" care. And if you dont care, there no need to use the Absolute to Justify anything, the Absolute take care of "you" when your time comes. This conflations are sneaky. I had to face them on me  many times in Ayahuasca. (Yes,this plant can show a lot of the unconscious shit we carry) And Looking to all the Shadows in my behavior. The confusion of having mode with Being mode. Of respecting the sovereignty of every one. Yes, You reach some ligth moments, but the dark corners of the unconscious too, the stuff hidden under the carpet. As Jung said somewhere. Enlightenment is not imagine ligths, is to iluminate the dark so that all that is unconscious became conscious. And guess what?when you become fully conscious you cant use a person. You can't even look to glass of water, you are to conscious for looking to "things" as "objects" for your "personal" use. 

I think the episode How to become a Zen Devil have good takes on this topic and the episose of Conflating Absolute and Relative. 

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 2023 by Rafael Thundercat

[Rafael Thundercat]

Again. Not even if the child started the situation give the adult the consent to escalate it to the final conclusions or having sex with the child. I dont have space to tell the story but a friend of my young sister long ago fancy herself to me. I was 30 an the girl as 15.  I could take advantage of the situation I wanted and claim she had started everything. I made the choice to act with integrity and tell her to go fancy to boys her age. 

In another set of circunstances, look what happen when you ignore age and just do what the kid wish:

https://people.com/crime/mother-arrested-allowed-10-year-old-son-get-tattoo/

[Hojo]

God gave human decision to do what they want if you fuck a child and a mob kills you thats just fine in gods mind too. Whether or not fucking a child was good in gods eyes dosent matter when you are hanging from a tree. And if people kill you for it its actually God and satan showing you how they feel about it.

Edited January 13, 2023 by Hojo