Is Enlightenment Worth It?

[thatmatt]

I've recently begun meditating with the goal of enlightenment, I've hit a few obstacles and overcome them however one thing keeps coming up for me which is preventing me from going further and honestly putting me off in general.

 

Now this is probably an incredibly ignorant question, but if enlightenment is some form of true understanding a step above reality, yet it's impossible to spend all time there why bother, surely it's just depressing to "come back" to whatever this understanding of reality is, and ultimately everything done from this lower place is just pointless?

 

(I get I sort of butchered the whole enlightenment conceptualization/description, but its nature makes it tricky to put into words)

 

Essentially what I'd love here, is a place for people to share their experiences of enlightenment, trying to reach it, any obstacles and how they were overcome, hopefully helping me with mine in the process. 

[jjer94]

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I've recently begun meditating with the goal of enlightenment, I've hit a few obstacles and overcome them however one thing keeps coming up for me which is preventing me from going further and honestly putting me off in general.

First off, you may want to supplement that meditation with self-inquiry. Watch Leo's "How to be Enlightened" video for more info on that.

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Now this is probably an incredibly ignorant question, but if enlightenment is some form of true understanding a step above reality, yet it's impossible to spend all time there why bother, surely it's just depressing to "come back" to whatever this understanding of reality is, and ultimately everything done from this lower place is just pointless?

You have this idea in your head that enlightenment, i.e. Truth, is some transcendent realm that's somehow apart from the "reality" that you talk about. It's not. Truth is not an experience, but it's not apart from experience. It's not some place you go to either; who you are is Truth itself. To say that it's impossible to spend all time in Truth, when you are Truth, is a contradiction you may want to contemplate.

It's not a "step above" reality either. The reality you think of as reality is not actually reality, and the real reality is Truth. You can never leave Truth.

It's not depressing at all to come back to what you call "reality." In fact, it's incredibly liberating when you realize you are not anything ephemeral like the body. That makes life into more of a play, a game, than a serious ordeal. You're finally free to do whatever you feel like doing regardless of what others say. You can finally make the most out of your life while it lasts. Yes, you may not relate to most people anymore, but you can't help but love everyone and everything. You realize that everything is pointless, not only the lower stuff, but the pursuit of enlightenment itself. And you can only smile in gratitude at it all. 

"Look where we are! We're in eternity's carnival. You can do anything; ride any ride, play any game, do whatever you want. Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow you shall pop like a snot bubble. It's not a prison of hopelessness and despair, it's a magnificent carnival with free admission and no rules. You can't stay forever, but you're here now, all shiny and new and ready to make a great big mess. Surely you can set aside your infantile need for meaning and just play." - Jed McKenna

[A way to Actualize]

the funny thing is: as long as you 'chase' you will not realize it.

I have checked out many enlightened teachers. The most pragmatic teacher who offers the way to realize enlightenment in the most casual way has to be Matt Kahn.

 

 

Video on enlightenment.

I would even say he is a stage further than enlightenment.

[thatmatt]

@jjer94 I have watched that video and its where I started, its been several months since then and I feel like I've made reasonable strides.

I understand your points and where you are coming from. I think some of what you correct me on is mostly due to the ham fisted way in which I attempted to express myself on such an abstract concept as enlightenment.

In reference to your 'liberating' point, that is currently how I live my life. I do see life as a game, as fun. I came to the conclusions of a pointless yet fun carnival of life you quote as a result of thinking about and questioning everything. From individual life purpose and overarching life purpose to the incredibly vast nature of the universe. However once I began to learn about enlightenment its almost as if achieving it gives some meaning to life, something to strive for.

If I live my life already in the aforementioned way then does striving for enlightenment actually accomplish anything other that understanding of self for me. Which whilst a worthwhile cause could take a lot of of the finite time I have left in life. Bringing me back to my original point of is enlightenment actually worth it?

 

@A way to Actualize Thanks for the link, I'll be sure to watch it!

[jjer94]

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If I live my life already in the aforementioned way then does striving for enlightenment actually accomplish anything other that understanding of self for me. Which whilst a worthwhile cause could take a lot of of the finite time I have left in life. Bringing me back to my original point of is enlightenment actually worth it?

In my opinion, yes, very much so. Even if you live life in the aforementioned way, you will still take life seriously when things get bad. You can't help it. Also, you still may be in the mode of "riding the rides" to attain happiness instead of riding them because you are happy. The happiness I'm talking about is a contentment, a feeling of completeness. After enlightenment, contentment is your natural state. No matter how crappy life gets circumstantially, your contentment doesn't waver. You also will be able to differentiate illusion from reality, which can be very helpful for taking things less seriously. There are a whole bunch of other reasons why enlightenment may be worth it to you, including but not limited to: flow, manifesting authentic desires, emotional mastery, and overwhelming gratitude that comes in waves. 

[thatmatt]

@jjer94 You've certainly given me a lot to think about. Thank you for all your help. 

In terms of emotional mastery, is consistent contentment really something to strive for, I believe for the most part that I have my emotions under control. Some things yes, the bigger things will get to me and change my emotional state. But is that bad? I want to experience all life, being sad is just a different experience and whilst I wouldn't choose to live there occasionally experiencing it is completely okay with me, if not good.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by flow? Or differentiating illusion from reality?

 

Another inquiry I have regarding Enlightenment, is with it being a self exploratory process, what about others? If I am to believe that there are other enlightened people in existence does that not hinder my own pursuit towards it? Sure I can learn from them but the actual enlightenment process involves looking in for my truth.

 

@Pinocchio The idea of enlightenment as a different perspective is interesting. Leo's original video however indicates that this different enlightened perspective cannot be maintained? Or can it with enough searching? 

[thatmatt]

@Pinocchio That makes a lot of sense, Essentially, and correct me if I'm wrong but its transcendence from everything we believe we are which results in the abandonment of any feeling of purpose and that's something the ego cannot handle.

Knowing that on its own is not enough however as there needs to be a greater sense of self to take the place of the egoic perspective and that's where the self inquiry towards enlightenment comes in.

Right?

Edited February 13, 2016 by thatmatt

[jjer94]

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 I want to experience all life, being sad is just a different experience and whilst I wouldn't choose to live there occasionally experiencing it is completely okay with me, if not good.

I didn't mean to make contentment sound like an emotional state. It's just a constant background feeling that happens after enlightenment. You will still feel excitement and sadness, all the ups and downs, but you won't resist them or take them seriously anymore. That allows you to experience each and every emotion fully. In the egoic paradigm, you resist the bad emotions and cling to the good ones, which causes you to store emotions and create obstructions in your life. It's like hanging on to a rock in a stream while the water is slapping your face. Quite painful, really. 

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I'm not entirely sure what you mean by flow? Or differentiating illusion from reality?

Flow is the state of being so present during an activity that it feels effortless. 

An illusion is something that appears to exist but really doesn't, while reality is what's actually there. Most people live in illusion and believe that these illusions are real. The biggest illusion of them all is the ego. Like Santa Clause, you can never actually find an "ego" in your experience. The ego is like a phantom that lurks in the thoughts and haunts the body; it doesn't actually exist. 

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If I am to believe that there are other enlightened people in existence does that not hinder my own pursuit towards it?

You kind of have to believe that there is such thing as enlightenment in order to start the journey. 

[bbrennan1986]

I just stepped on the path... well I think so at least, I think it's worth that much; let's see how long it lasts. Im only 2 months into a legit meditation practice. After dabbling and not being serious for a year

[jjer94]

5 minutes ago, bbrennan1986 said:

I just stepped on the path... well I think so at least, I think it's worth that much; let's see how long it lasts. Im only 2 months into a legit meditation practice. After dabbling and not being serious for a year

Don't think so. Know so! 

[thatmatt]

@Pinocchio @jjer94 Thank you both, this has really helped clear some things up for me and encourage me to keep going on my path to further my understanding of and seek enlightenment. I have a lot to reflect on!  Thanks again.

[Leo Gura]

The question can be answered this way: You'd be very hard-pressed to meet a guy who's attained enlightened and regretted it.

This question is kinda like a little kid asking, "Is sex worth it?"

[Mulky]

ya

[TruthSeeker]

 

On 2/12/2016 at 6:04 PM, thatmatt said:

Now this is probably an incredibly ignorant question, but if enlightenment is some form of true understanding a step above reality, yet it's impossible to spend all time there why bother, surely it's just depressing to "come back" to whatever this understanding of reality is, and ultimately everything done from this lower place is just pointless?

This is a quote from leo:

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Existence and nothingness are the same. They arise out of each other. Or, more accurately, existence arises out of nothingness. And that nothingness doesn’t go away, it’s always there. This is referred to as the Void in certain Buddhist traditions or, maybe, Zen traditions. They call it the Void.

So, all of reality comes from nothingness. Now, this might seem like: “OK, that, kind of, maybe makes sense, or whatever.” But see, I’m telling you here to believe it or to take it on as a theory. I’m telling you that you can actually get a direct encounter with this truth.

The other enlightenment that you can have — there are multiple enlightenments that you can have — another enlightenment that you can have is that other people, others around you, everyone you see, are also nothing, also nothingness.

And what that means is that, because you’re nothing, and they’re nothing, that you and them are identical, the same, at an existential, metaphysical level. You’re identical. So, you can have that enlightenment experience. And then, ultimately, what you discover is: you piece all these things together and you get a direct experience of the absolute truth.

 

Seems that this state of enlightenment can be achieved (after lots of hard work) even in our normal day to day life. Meaning when your hanging out with a friend you can realize that you and him/her are really one. You are both nothingness you are both one with reality etc etc. I think the goal its to achieve these really high states of awareness and then live with that awareness in our everyday lives...when we eat, talk with friends, have sex, write on the leo forum, when we crack our knuckles...we can all strive to live with this higher state of awareness even when we are doing every day normal things.

BAM!