Wouldn’t world peace be nice?

[Lyubov]

3 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

But certain topics in tje extreme can lead to violence, because one ideology wish to survive over the other ideology

No topic leads to extreme violence. There are simply topics and people choose to have them lead to violence over other choices due to their beliefs.

We are always the de facto force behind anything that occurs in our actions or behavior or thoughts or feelings. There is nothing outside of you that can force you to do otherwise (including coercion, there are still beliefs there, still not a justification for trying to coerce people)or believe otherwise or act in any way unless it literally physically forces your body to do so by physical force. And even if it does trespass physicality it still can’t cross into your belief system or spiritual value.

Many people place this force outside themselves and blame it on outside circumstances when they are always responsible for themselves whether they know it or not. 

Violence is not baked into anything. It’s a result of unconscious belief. Violence here is not the same as what Animals are doing. Animals do not have the ability to change their beliefs or see the world in a rational way so they act out a baked in belief system which we call instincts. We can call this survival for animals because it’s basically as high as they can go but not for humans. 

Survival has violence baked into it for animals but not humans. But like I said many things about how humans see the world will have to change before humans choose to no longer use violence. 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Lyubov

[Roy]

13 hours ago, Lyubov said:

Horrible

hopefully humans one day are advance that they believe they don’t need to have a war to stay entertained.

It's evolution baby!!!

 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Roy

[Rafael Thundercat]

@Lyubov  in what world do you leave?

You say : "Animals do not have the ability to change their beliefs or see the world in a rational way so they act out a baked in belief system which we call instincts. We can call this survival for animals because it’s basically as high as they can go but not for humans. " 

I know animals cannot rewrite their survival program in big or less gradients( because not animals are the same) and yes, rationality is a special feature from humans, frontal Cortex and so yadayada,.  And for God Sake, unless you are one of this Victorian Christains who don't  want to see that humans are one among many species of animals, then will be for me impossible to make you understand that is not hard to a human to act by irrational instinct an do acts that for another human could be seen as animalistic.

Have you ever tried to negotiate with a angry drunk  man? I did, I was going out from a club and this guy grabed my neck and shouted : I know you mother fucker, Is you!! You fucked my wife!! You fucked my wife!!

i was able to escape and tried to explain that he made a mistake and security took care of him. But in the state he was was impossible to talk. 

So, I don't  know where you leave, In a Palace as Sidarta, where you dont  see Sickness, Old age, Death and humans behaving like animals, but surrender to the truth that it is what it is, and will not change so fast. This will bring peace to your mind. All this violence drama have a reason to exist, you can call the Care Bears to help us if you wish and they will heal our word with Rainbows. 

Peace

Edited January 14, 2023 by Rafael Thundercat

[TheAlchemist]

Yeah and it can be had. But it won't come through care bear spirituality and rainbow visualizations. It will come through fierce and courageous individuals standing up. People with a samurai warrior mentality but a heart of a buddha. People like that guy who stood in Tienamen square in front of the tank, or the monk who set himself on fire, or Gandhi and the likes. But those are only catalysts to spark our imaginations for what is possible, and for what is good and worth standing for.

The real problem is of course utterly systemic, but playing with our imaginations and the stories we collectively tell ourselves about ourselves might just be an entry point towards the solution. Getting us to to say "what if?". And I don't mean a purely utopian type of "what if?" but a deeply pragmatic type of "what if?" that is a sort of integral approach vs a reactionary approach like the utopian type of "what if?" commonly is. 

 It seems impossible but we sure as hell should try.

 

 

 

 

[Lyubov]

5 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

@Lyubovunless you are one of this Victorian Christains who don't  want to see that humans are one among many species of animals, then will be for me impossible to make you understand that is not hard to a human to act by irrational instinct an do acts that for another human could be seen as animalistic.

Have you ever tried to negotiate with a angry drunk  man? I did, I was going out from a club and this guy grabed my neck and shouted : I know you mother fucker, Is you!! You fucked my wife!! You fucked my wife!!

i was able to escape and tried to explain that he made a mistake and security took care of him. But in the state he was was impossible to talk. 

So, I don't  know where you leave, In a Palace as Sidarta, where you dont  see Sickness, Old age, Death and humans behaving like animals, but surrender to the truth that it is what it is, and will not change so fast. This will bring peace to your mind. All this violence drama have a reason to exist, you can call the Care Bears to help us if you wish and they will heal our word with Rainbows. 

Peace

you are offloading human responsibility on a belief that “we are one among many species of animals.” Wrong, humans go beyond animals and have the de facto ability to never act out of animal instinct if we so choose. You think some de facto force out of your control exists which does not, it’s simply your belief that limits your sight to see it’s entirely a human creation with no walls around it.

That angry drunk man chose to be drunk and chose to be angry. No one forced him to be like that. You don’t make any point here. World peace will happen when every human realizes this potential and chooses not to be the angry drunk man. There is nothing stopping anyone from having this realization except themselves. How could there be? 

Humans behave like animals out of choice. There is no outside truth to it. They choose to be like this. 

There is no reason for violence to exist. You believe violence exists for a reason? Why? All you can list is another belief which will have an endless number of beliefs behind it, going in a circle. I can just keep asking “why?” You place a belief over why it exists. It simply exists because it exists and it will stop existing if people change their beliefs and choose for it to no longer exist. It’s as simple as that. 

When humanity as a whole roots itself in true spiritual value, violence will cease to exist, but this does not guarantee a world without survival challenges or other problems we will still have to overcome, or what new challenges change may bring. We are simply taking about evolving past violence. 

Edited January 14, 2023 by Lyubov

[Rafael Thundercat]

If there was not need to violence to exist it would not exist. Anything possible  to exist will exist and guess what, everything is infinitly possible to exist. Point one thing that would not be possible to exist, bring up in your mind now, something you think that would be impossible to exist. There you have, even if is existing only as an ideia in your mind, is existing. 

You can fool yourself into denial that something should or could not exist, but in the direct moment of your denial it is existing. I cant belive violence out of existence. If you can do it, so make it, and then you dont need to make questions in a forum about if World peace would be nice. Would really be nice? For who? For the lion? For the gazelle? What is peace? 

There is a time when one need to stop trying to imagine things out of existence or into existence and embrace existence as it is, the peace of  embrace all of you. I don’t  like  violence because deep down ,violence is something that represents  a threat to the survival of "me".

Because  we know that today or tomorrow violence may be catch me and that would be the end of this "me". So, who is this "me" that would like the world to be in peace in order to be nice?  

Edited January 14, 2023 by Rafael Thundercat

[Schizophonia]

On 14/01/2023 at 2:21 PM, Lyubov said:

you are offloading human responsibility on a belief that “we are one among many species of animals.” Wrong, humans go beyond animals and have the de facto ability to never act out of animal instinct if we so choose. You think some de facto force out of your control exists which does not, it’s simply your belief that limits your sight to see it’s entirely a human creation with no walls around it.

That angry drunk man chose to be drunk and chose to be angry. No one forced him to be like that. You don’t make any point here. World peace will happen when every human realizes this potential and chooses not to be the angry drunk man. There is nothing stopping anyone from having this realization except themselves. How could there be? 

Humans behave like animals out of choice. There is no outside truth to it. They choose to be like this. 

There is no reason for violence to exist. You believe violence exists for a reason? Why? All you can list is another belief which will have an endless number of beliefs behind it, going in a circle. I can just keep asking “why?” You place a belief over why it exists. It simply exists because it exists and it will stop existing if people change their beliefs and choose for it to no longer exist. It’s as simple as that. 

When humanity as a whole roots itself in true spiritual value, violence will cease to exist, but this does not guarantee a world without survival challenges or other problems we will still have to overcome, or what new challenges change may bring. We are simply taking about evolving past violence. 

Masochistic and misanthropic message.

[Mulky]

On 1/10/2023 at 8:46 PM, Devin said:

Don't you think it would get a bit stale after a while? Great for a while though.

If it got stale, it wouldn't be peace.  That feeling of it being stale would be something other than peace.

[sholomar]

I don't believe it's possible, not for 50-100 years at least. Jordan Peterson kind of explains why at the end of this video... he mentions that evolution happens due to a large "diversity of approach" and the reason the west is so successful is we allow such diversity. Even if there is a 95% failure rate which is typical in evolution, those who succeed, can succeed spectacularly in ways that cause big leaps in our society and culture (or a species), and thus having a centrally planned dictatorship that lacks diversity of approach (he uses China as his example) and forces as one example "world peace" simply cannot compete.

Also, I don't believe it's as easy as saying everyone has "choice" and that people should be able to override their animal impulses and behave properly. This is why you need to balance order vs chaos within a society.  What about a person with down syndrome? What about a person with autism? What about a born psychopath? Where do you draw the line between someone who does and doesn't have a mental illness, and when does someone become responsible for their actions? Obviously, we need to keep dangerous people out of society, but it's very shortsighted to say everyone should be able to control their impulses and behave better. Quite frankly, that's ridiculous.  We are animals, and we have a lot of primitive and strong biological urges within us that are genetic and cultural in nature.  We control people through a system of law, rules, and cultural mores. A carrot and stick approach that causes the limbic system to react differently over time... personal development at it's core.

How do you have world peace without competition at this point in our evolution? It's simply not possible. This video is not entire 100% on topic but it's so good, as someone into geopolitics and a person who often criticizes the western approach, the western approach is clearly defended in this short video... at least when it comes to "diversity of approach"  ...  we perhaps will one day achieve world peace, but we have a lot of spiral dynamics stage blue and red cultures to overcome before that day comes, not to mention orange and green.

"These monolithic centralists who believe central planning and efficiency will defeat distributed creativity, they're just wrong one after the other." - Peterson

 

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by sholomar

[lapis]

I wonder how many of those who say war is good would continue thinking that if bombs started exploding around them.

I bet it's only good when it's happening somewhere else.

[TheAlchemist]

On 14/01/2023 at 8:25 PM, Rafael Thundercat said:

If there was not need to violence to exist it would not exist. Anything possible  to exist will exist and guess what, everything is infinitly possible to exist. 

That kind of makes sense. So wouldn't it apply to world peace as well? I haven't seen world peace so is that somehow excluded from "everything possible existing"? Why would war just be a thing that goes on forever if infinity is exploring all possibilities? Wouldn't it be reasonable to expect it to also explore a state of world peace? 

Also, why would infinity eternally "need" violence/war? It doesn't seem to need mass slavery anymore either.. 

Edited February 25, 2023 by TheAlchemist

[Tanz]

If world leaders and their masters were forced to fight eachother to the death instead of the mindless soldiers, there would be world peace REAL fast.

[hyruga]

People always want excitement. To have world peace is not possible.

What is possible is get people to get in boxing ring like Jake Paul vs Tommy Fury. More people watch, fewer lives lost if any.