Why does God allow such extreme degrees of suffering?

[Hanna Luna]

2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Here is a challenge: construct me a reality without positives and negatives.

Yeah, that's tough. I'm not sure how, as all I've ever known is that reality. 

[Breakingthewall]

In several Native American tribes, torture was an established custom. I read an relate of a missionary who was in one of those tribes. He said that the prisoner was happy to be tortured since that way he had the opportunity to demonstrate his courage to the great spirit. First they tied him outside and the women and children burned him with small red-hot sticks all over his body, they also cut off his ears and nose. at dusk they would take him to a tent where the elderly experts would torture him all night. it was important that he did not die before dawn. At the moment the sun came up, they inserted a hot thick piece of wood through the anus and then they cut off his head. As the prisoner had been brave and at no time did he show weakness, the next day they held a party in his honor.

[Hanna Luna]

1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:

In several Native American tribes, torture was an established custom. I read an relate of a missionary who was in one of those tribes. He said that the prisoner was happy to be tortured since that way he had the opportunity to demonstrate his courage to the great spirit. First they tied him outside and the women and children burned him with small red-hot sticks all over his body, they also cut off his ears and nose. at dusk they would take him to a tent where the elderly experts would torture him all night. it was important that he did not die before dawn. At the moment the sun came up, they inserted a hot thick piece of wood through the anus and then they cut off his head. As the prisoner had been brave and at no time did he show weakness, the next day they held a party in his honor.

Holy fuck. Screw that.

[Gesundheit2]

14 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Here is a challenge: construct me a reality without positives and negatives.

Easy.

• Eternal ecstasy and never ending pleasures regardless of form.
• No death, obviously.
• No possibility of suffering.

I guess that's about it.

[Zeroguy]

4 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Easy.

• Eternal ecstasy and never ending pleasures regardless of form.
• No death, obviously.
• No possibility of suffering.

I guess that's about it.

Easy.

• Survival of the fittest
• Reproduction
• Evolution

I guess that is about it.

[Hanna Luna]

8 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Easy.

• Eternal ecstasy and never ending pleasures regardless of form.
• No death, obviously.
• No possibility of suffering.

I guess that's about it.

Those are positives though. However, without negativity, the 'positives' that I'm identifying as such might just be neutral.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Hanna Luna

[Carl-Richard]

12 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Easy.

• Eternal ecstasy and never ending pleasures regardless of form.
• No death, obviously.
• No possibility of suffering.

I guess that's about it.

With forms? That requires positives and negatives. But without forms, yep — not much going on then ?

Edited January 10, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Gesundheit2]

2 minutes ago, Hanna Luna said:

Those are positives though. However, without negativity, the 'positives' that I'm identifying as such might just be neutral.

Alright, then:

• No possibility of neutrality. Everything positive only.

[spiritual memes]

55 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Easy.

• Eternal ecstasy and never ending pleasures regardless of form.
• No death, obviously.
• No possibility of suffering.

I guess that's about it.

seems kinda boring. Imagine watching a movie where nothing mad happens and the characters are just always happy with no dilemmas. It would be boring af.

[An young being]

5 minutes ago, spiritual memes said:

seems kinda boring. Imagine watching a movie where nothing mad happens and the characters are just always happy with no dilemmas. It would be boring af.

If everything is possible, it is also possible that everyone is happy without any negative emotions including boring.

[spiritual memes]

2 hours ago, Hanna Luna said:

Wow, fuck that God. 

No, but in all seriousness. I really don't like the fact that the universe doesn't operate on morality. I understand that would cause it to limit itself, but I'd prefer that over the contrary. 

Here's a different perspective. Consider the show game of thrones (ignore the last season) . People loved game of thrones because it was so brutal and unforgiving. The characters could die at any moment and the evil guys frequently won. In fact, the highest rated episode is the one in which a bunch or main characters get brutally killed out of nowhere. From the perspective of the characters in the story, the writer of the story must be evil for causing so much suffering but from his perspective he is writing on of the greatest stories of all time (except season 8 )

[An young being]

What I believe is that it is not possible for God to create a perfect life for everyone but it is possible for God to create a seed that evolves ultimately into that state and we are caught in between the transition

Edited January 10, 2023 by An young being

[Hanna Luna]

Just now, spiritual memes said:

Here's a different perspective. Consider the show game of thrones (ignore the last season) . People loved game of thrones because it was so brutal and unforgiving. The characters could die at any moment and the evil guys frequently won. In fact, the highest rated episode is the one in which a bunch or main characters get brutally killed out of nowhere. From the perspective of the characters in the story, the writer of the story must be evil for causing so much suffering but from his perspective he is writing on of the greatest stories of all time (except season 8 )

Yes, but the difference is that the characters aren't real. They aren't sentient beings, actually being killed. Therein lies the difference. I'd allow characters in a game to be brutally murdered via assault rifles or others, and be totally fine with it because they aren't sentient beings, it's just code and pixels on a screen. 

[spiritual memes]

Just now, An young being said:

If everything is possible, it is also possible that everyone is happy without any negative emotions including boring.

yes but that would be pretty boring from god's perspective.

[spiritual memes]

Just now, Hanna Luna said:

Yes, but the difference is that the characters aren't real. They aren't sentient beings, actually being killed. Therein lies the difference. I'd allow characters in a game to be brutally murdered via assault rifles or others, and be totally fine with it because they aren't sentient beings, it's just code and pixels on a screen. 

But from gods perspective, people in real life are things god is imagining. That is not to say that they are npcs, just that all of them are god playing with itself. 

[Vibes]

9 minutes ago, spiritual memes said:

Here's a different perspective. Consider the show game of thrones (ignore the last season) . People loved game of thrones because it was so brutal and unforgiving. The characters could die at any moment and the evil guys frequently won. In fact, the highest rated episode is the one in which a bunch or main characters get brutally killed out of nowhere. From the perspective of the characters in the story, the writer of the story must be evil for causing so much suffering but from his perspective he is writing on of the greatest stories of all time (except season 8 )

Yeah, but this is naive copium because when something happens to you or to someone you know, you won't like it. 

I say this with pain, but there is no escaping Infinity.

[spiritual memes]

Just now, Vibes said:

Yeah, but this is naive copium because when something happens to you or to someone you know, you won't like it. 

I say this with pain, but there is no escaping Infinity.

Yeah I'll fully admit I'm scared of suffering, my human character is supposed to be like that. That's what the ego is designed for.

But on an existential level I know that nothing real can be hurt. Why would I want to escape infinity? Infinity is the best possible reality.

I would argue that your argument is copium because your ego doesn't want to comprehend that suffering is an illusion. The ego is built around suffering so to admit that there is no self to experience suffering is to see past the illusion of ego. when you fully surrender to infinity, you will see past the illusion but the ego will fight tooth and nail to survive which is why it terrifies you so much.

[Vibes]

3 minutes ago, spiritual memes said:

I would argue that your argument is copium because your ego doesn't want to comprehend that suffering is an illusion. The ego is built around suffering so to admit that there is no self to experience suffering is to see past the illusion of ego. when you fully surrender to infinity, you will see past the illusion but the ego will fight tooth and nail to survive which is why it terrifies you so much.

Damn, you knocked me out with this one.

[Hanna Luna]

35 minutes ago, An young being said:

What I believe is that it is not possible for God to create a perfect life for everyone but it is possible for God to create a seed that evolves ultimately into that state and we are caught in between the transition

They also say that free will is ours, and always has been and that God/source would have it no other way nor would it want to if given the choice. However, free will doesn't really exist to he/she who is below a certain level of consciousness. You need awareness to make sound decisions because without a certain amount of it, any decision made would come from a highly egoic, narcissistic, and childish perspective said individual is experiencing.  

Said individual would be at the mercy of their negative/destructive beliefs about themselves and the world around them, they'd have an incredibly narrow perspective that excludes that which exists beyond said negative/destructive beliefs which one could define as that which simply is/that which is true.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Hanna Luna

[spiritual memes]

Just now, Vibes said:

Damn, you knocked me out with this one.

Yeah I will admit Its a lot to handle and its not for everyone. Unless you're crazy enlightened or on psychedelics, its probably not a good idea to think about these topics. I'm not there 99.99% of the time so it really fucks me up. But when I do see past the illusion, boy is it an incredible experience.

Being aware of all the suffering that exists isn't particularly good for survival, which is why the ego is so good at making people feel separate from you. Which is why its best not to think about it XD.