Has anyone discovered Coral?

[thisintegrated]

2 minutes ago, Sincerity said:

Exactly.

I'd bet most of these people who spout stuff about coral are barely even green and have great deficiencies in the previous stages.

Ah yes, knowledge of a few psychological/sociological models, some spiritual development, a few independent insights, watching Leo's content, three Daniel Schmachtenberger videos, 1 Ken Wilber book, sprinkle some God-realization in there maybe and voila! I'm yellow/turquoise and I'm starting to understand coral, I'm serious guys!!! ...Uhhh guys?

Probably 99,99% of people can't even imagine what turquoise is.

..words can't describe you.

[John Paul]

@thisintegrated so if the value of turquoise is literally “holism” then what is coral? Extra holistic?…. Holistic +1?…. Ur kidding yourself bruv and you are not even turquoise. You are YELLOW.

[Carl-Richard]

24 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Green:  I was into stuff like crystals, vibrations, no-fluoride, sustainable/natural living, astral projection, exploring other dimensions of reality, lucid dreaming, wanted freedom, had romanticised ideas about reality, etc.

If you think that your early teens is a time where you start developing context/construct awareness and not a time where you've barely learned to do basic logical deductions, is just proving that you still lack context/construct awareness and are partially stuck in Orange. Green cognition is something you develop into your late-teens/early-twenties, and it's heavily dependent on general life experience (meeting different people, coming into contact with different ways of thinking, etc.), hence it correlates with age. Just because you adopt some Green practices from your culture doesn't mean you're Green. Kids in kindergarten are being taught social constructionist gender theory now. That doesn't mean they're Green.

 

24 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Yellow:  I had discovered the beauty in politics as a concept, I wanted to be president or work for a regulatory body or anything that put me in direct contact with the systems that run society, I was deep into experimental music theory and loved theorizing stuff and how every single field I was into was connected and the same thing, I was always talking about UBI and writing long essays about how society could be restructured like by abolishing inheritance and how it could work, etc.

I was writing around a million words a year at Yellow.  But I'm well past that now.

Your intellect flowers when you get better at doing basic logical deductions, yes. An Orange-Green person is perfectly capable of doing the cognitive operations of the things you're describing. I still don't see any strong references to context/construct awareness. Seeing the relationships between different fields is called learning.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[thisintegrated]

4 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Green cognition is something you develop into your late-teens/early-twenties

Speak for yourself

 

5 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Your intellect flowers when you get better at doing basic logical deductions, yes. An Orange-Green person is perfectly capable of doing the cognitive operations of the things you're describing. I still don't see any strong references to context/construct awareness. Seeing the relationships between different fields is called learning.

You're really motivated to put others down?

But impressive mental gymnastics?

 

6 minutes ago, John Paul said:

@thisintegrated so if the value of turquoise is literally “holism” then what is coral? Extra holistic?…. Holistic +1?…. Ur kidding yourself bruv and you are not even turquoise. You are YELLOW.

Do you believe evolution has an end point?

[Sincerity]

23 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

..words can't describe you.

[Carl-Richard]

12 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

You're really motivated to put others down?

I guess I'm sorry for withholding my honest opinion about you until you decided to systematically uproot the existence of the forum for your own personal gain. All the things I've said in this thread have been thoughts I've had since the very first moments of talking with you. I generally try to avoid putting people down unless it's for a very good reason, and in your case it can maybe give you some humility (doubt it) to help with your new-found responsibilities.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[thisintegrated]

1 minute ago, Carl-Richard said:

I guess I'm sorry for withholding my honest opinion about you until you decided to systematically uproot the existence of the forum for your own personal gain. All the things I've said in this thread have been thoughts I've had since the first moments of talking with you. I generally try to avoid putting people down unless it's for a very good reason, and in your case it can maybe give you some humility (doubt it), which can only be good for your newfound responsibilities.

Damn, didn't know Carl had such a mean-spirited side to him.  We still mostly talk positive of you.

Maybe one day you'll find the same love others have for you?

[Carl-Richard]

9 minutes ago, thisintegrated said:

Damn, didn't know Carl had such a mean-spirited side to him.

Is it just mean, or is it also "for your own good"? ...  

"I'll just let him believe he is Turquoise, why crush people's egos for no reason?" Well, now there was a reason, so I did it.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[thisintegrated]

Just now, Carl-Richard said:

Is it just mean, or is it also "for your own good"? ...  

lol, you don't think that deep 

 

Just now, Carl-Richard said:

"I'll just let him believe he is Turquoise, why crush people's egos for no reason?" Well, now there was a reason, so I did it.

Riiight, just like you "let" Leo believe he's Turquoise.

 

Y'see, no one needs your approval.  You're not the gatekeeper of anything.

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, thisintegrated said:

Riiight, just like you "let" Leo believe he's Turquoise.

Y'see, no one needs your approval.  You're not the gatekeeper of anything.

I just don't like calling people underdeveloped.

[Carl-Richard]

1 hour ago, Sincerity said:

Exactly.

I'd bet most of these people who spout stuff about coral are barely even green and have great deficiencies in the previous stages.

Ah yes, knowledge of a few psychological/sociological models, some spiritual development, a few independent insights, watching Leo's content, three Daniel Schmachtenberger videos, 1 Ken Wilber book, sprinkle some God-realization in there maybe and voila! I'm yellow/turquoise and I'm starting to understand coral, I'm serious guys!!! ...Uhhh guys?

Probably 99,99% of people can't even imagine what turquoise is.

"three Daniel Schmachtenberger videos" 

[BipolarGrowth]

Spiral dynamics seems less important as time goes on for me. It’s a cool idea, but it’s pretty arbitrary and difficult to verify any individual’s claims of being a specific level. On top of this, it’s a cultural model not quite calibrated for individuals the way people love to use it here. 

[Carl-Richard]

2 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Spiral dynamics seems less important as time goes on for me. It’s a cool idea, but it’s pretty arbitrary and difficult to verify any individual’s claims of being a specific level. On top of this, it’s a cultural model not quite calibrated for individuals the way people love to use it here. 

Agreed.

[John Paul]

3 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

If you think that your early teens is a time where you start developing context/construct awareness and not a time where you've barely learned to do basic logical deductions, is just proving that you still lack context/construct awareness and are partially stuck in Orange. Green cognition is something you develop into your late-teens/early-twenties, and it's heavily dependent on general life experience (meeting different people, coming into contact with different ways of thinking, etc.), hence it correlates with age. Just because you adopt some Green practices from your culture doesn't mean you're Green. Kids in kindergarten are being taught social constructionist gender theory now. That doesn't mean they're Green.

 

Your intellect flowers when you get better at doing basic logical deductions, yes. An Orange-Green person is perfectly capable of doing the cognitive operations of the things you're describing. I still don't see any strong references to context/construct awareness. Seeing the relationships between different fields is called learning.

Not correct. Your stage will depend on your survival situation. You can be a 10 year old and be stage green if you are in a healthy green or toxic orange survival situation.

[John Paul]

3 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

Do you believe evolution has an end point?

Evolution does not exist.

[WelcometoReality]

6 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

You can see up to 2 stages above your own, so anyone at Yellow/Turquoise should be able to have an idea of what Coral is about.

I think I'm starting to understand Coral, but could use some other perspectives from this forum.

I only have a basic understanding about spiral dynamics but to me coral sounds like going full circle, back into the marketplace. The tenth oxherding picture.

[Gesundheit2]

I think this belongs in the fun section.

[Eternal Unity]

11 hours ago, thisintegrated said:

You can see up to 2 stages above your own.

I didn't know that. Thanks for the information! Now that I think of it, I'm very early Yellow, had some tiny glimpses into Turquoise, and even less so for Coral.

[Carl-Richard]

12 hours ago, John Paul said:

Not correct. Your stage will depend on your survival situation. You can be a 10 year old and be stage green if you are in a healthy green or toxic orange survival situation.

Let me clarify: in the current world, even in the most developed parts of the Western world, you should not expect to find even the tiniest amount of Green 10-14 year olds, except maybe in some extremely extraordinary cases. The way children develop at this current stage of society is generally not conducive to it. If you look at Piaget's stages of cognitive development (actual mainstream science btw), Western children start having just basic logical deduction skills at 12-14 years old ("systematic cognition"), and if you're familiar with Ken Wilber's work, you would know that this correlates with Orange cognition.

If you then look at Neo-Piagetian models, "meta-systematic cognition" is the next step above that, which correlates with Green cognition, and this is the start of context/construct awareness. Here, you're not just learning about how parts of a system fit together logically, but you're learning about many types of systems and their connections to other systems, both horizontally (e.g. seeing the differences and similarities between systems) and vertically (e.g. understanding how underlying assumptions affect a system, or how they can belong to a super-ordinate category, e.g. a paradigm). This is how Green people start being aware of things like privilege and cultural relativism, i.e. how things are largely a result of underlying historical and sociocultural systems ("context"), and how their own position in the world and how they understand it ("construct") is not "the only way" and is also a bit arbitrary.

In this day and age, this requires a certain amount of life experience; of meeting different people and coming across different ways of thinking; and for people who are prone to Green and live in a place like the West, this usually starts happening at 18-21 years old, i.e. university age, hence why universities are considered the Greenest places (the most cognitively developed children, who of course are the most prone to Green, generally end up going to university and start being receptive to that kind of learning there). Maybe this will change significantly when we get AI and revolutionize information processing, which indeed would be a radical change in our "survival conditions", but for now, we're generally stuck with the 18-21 figure.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

16 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Spiral dynamics seems less important as time goes on for me. It’s a cool idea, but it’s pretty arbitrary and difficult to verify any individual’s claims of being a specific level. On top of this, it’s a cultural model not quite calibrated for individuals the way people love to use it here. 

Aside from how it's generally just socially cringe to assess another forum member's "development", to obsessively pin down everything to a hyper-generalized framework like SD just becomes silly at some point. I also think @thisintegrated is an atypical individual in many ways which cannot be captured by SD. But if I were to begrudgingly concede to the task of pinning him down: Orange-Green.

Edited January 9, 2023 by Carl-Richard