Clear critical analysis of 'woke' culture

[mr_engineer]

18 minutes ago, zurew said:

What effects do you think the saying of  "Chinese vaccines are ineffective" causes on the market?

Pfizer revenue 2021 - $81 billion 

Sinopharm revenue 2021 - $77 billion. 

Reason - it really doesn't matter to most people which vaccine they get. What people end up getting is pure hit and trial at the end of the day. They're not reading WHO articles before getting them! They're looking at social-media disclaimers saying that 'all vaccines are safe and effective' and randomly selecting any vaccine. 

22 minutes ago, zurew said:

now you are demanding some of these countries and companies to actually say disinformation about other vaccines in order to win the competition.

I'm not making a demand. I'm making a point, that what they've said isn't that outrageous. They're not saying that the Chinese vaccine is trash, they're just saying that theirs is better. And that this is not a legitimate foothold for anti-vaxxers to defame them. So, they're being sophisticated in their marketing/competitive-strategy while shielding out anti-vaxxers! 

[zurew]

Just to reiterate one last time how ridiculous your narrative is and how dishonest you are, and how shit your epistemic process is:

- You are proposing an "argument" that all these countries and companies have been working together behind the scenes collaborating and creating vaccines and hiding information about vaccines that are dangerous but no one said anything and no one could prove that those vaccines are dangerous not even any private company nor any institution , literally no one.

-There was no one in any of those companies and countries who could have leaked any information about the dangers of these vaccines, no one could leak any information about the collaboration process.

 - All of these countries are rivals and enemies and want to destroy each other and dominate each other and politically and ideologically are opposites, but this one time they did all of this high risk lying and information hiding in order to make some money, while on the surface spending millions and billions to fight each other.

- Some of the most nationalist countries are fucking over their own people and work together with the collaboration of their enemies in order to make some money

 - All of these companies and countries know the exact fine line what to not step over in order to maintain the illusion that they don't work together, so they can shit on each other but not too much in order to not piss off any other companies and countries and still make some money.

- In your head this somehow makes sense - even though the vaccine marketing war is literally lost by Russia, because the sputnik vaccine is not famous at all and most countries don't accept that vaccine, and Russia is being damaged by the sanctions , and Russia's image is literally worse than shit since they started their war in Ukraine,  Russia still doesn't say anything bad about the Western vaccines, while also saying a bunch of bad things about the West and claim that the west is evil and the West is the reason for the war. So they could gain enormous narrative and political control by displaying information about the dangers of western vaccines but they still don't do it for some magical reason(s).

- China literally refused to accept and distribute western mrna vaccines for a long time, but thats just must be for creating the scene in your narrative.

- The WHO literally suspended  approval process for the russian (sputnik) COVID vaccine and there were other countries who didn't accept the sputnik vaccine  - but I guess in your narrative somehow all these things don't have any significant effect on the market

- There were also a bunch of countries who didn't accept the Sinovac vaccine, but that again in you narrative , thats just must be to create a scene and to make people believe that none of these countries are collaborating together.

-All of these countries have their own allies and by working together with their allies they could have gained political and narrative power by showcasing evidence about the vaccines, and all these countries and allies are collaborating against their enemies all the time, but just this one special time they said no to all that.

-You are acting like even within certain countries especially in democratic countries there are no internal battles regarding to the vaccines, you are acting as if there is no incentive there to showcase evidence-  especially when it comes to the west (left vs right), the right has a bunch of antivaxxers but according to you they probably just refuse to show any evidence for whatever magical reasons even though they could paint the libs, the democrats and socialists as devils or dumb people.

 

 

You believe all that, and you have 0 evidence to show the collaboration, 0 evidence to show how the vaccines are dangerous, 0 leaks or evidence by any party or any institution or anyone. So all of these companies and countries managed to hide everything for 3 years now, so they are that powerful, but at the same time they can't control nor hide the negative political narratives or news about themselves.

All of these companies and countries together has produced literally billions of doses of these vaccines and billions of people got the vaxx, but still no one can show any concrete evidence how they are bad.

Edited January 11, 2023 by zurew

[Danioover9000]

@something_else

16 hours ago, something_else said:

Ehm, care to explain…? If you take the actual definitions of all of those words as far as I’m aware everything I wrote is true

   The same feature as this statement is false, so too this post is false.

[Romanov]

On 1/7/2023 at 10:39 PM, hoodrow trillson said:

You’re talking about ‘oversimplification’ over here and yet the term “wokeism” is a deliberately hijacked AAVE term made up by right wingers.  “Woke” originally meant,  “being aware of injustices to our people” (said by black people).  It is now used as a blanket term to point to LGBTQ, minorities (especially black people), BLM, oppressed people or anything that the right wing conservative bunch deem as “icky” in one big neat little bigoted bow.

What are you on about here?  Lol.  MAGA was literally a political movement started by Donald Trump.  It’s printed on fucking red hats.

Basic human decency isn’t a caricature of an imagined ideal.  

Lmfao get the fuck outta here with this garbage.  There should be a place in the world for the current most protected and most privileged race on this planet?  Really?  It still hasn’t budged, other than getting their feefees hurt that other people are wanting not to be the rungs of society anymore.

@Leo Gura How do you deal with this pseudo-intellectual Reddit tier garbage day in and day out?  Before you started Actualized, did you anticipate inane discussions that are deliberately sided as “hehe I’m smarter than the guy who made this forum!“ ?

I was agreeing with everything up until the straight white male part. Sure they’re pretty privileged and all but using that as a way to justify bigotry or hate towards them isn’t right either, that is beginning to verge on racist territory For example, I’ve seen this extended to the point of trying to teach white kids how to hate themselves. 
 

When victims start ruling with an iron fist, they’re no longer victims and unfortunately this is the approach many have tried adopting. 

[mr_engineer]

8 hours ago, zurew said:

You are proposing an "argument" that all these countries and companies have been working together behind the scenes collaborating and creating vaccines and hiding information about vaccines that are dangerous but no one said anything and no one could prove that those vaccines are dangerous not even any private company nor any institution , literally no one.

There was no one in any of those companies and countries who could have leaked any information about the dangers of these vaccines, no one could leak any information about the collaboration process.

Those who did prove it, those who did leak information, got cancelled and silenced as 'conspiracy-theorists'. 

I know how the scientific-establishment works, how they create in-groups and out-groups. Right now, they have such a stronghold on everyone's minds that they can cancel anyone just by showing their credentials! 

8 hours ago, zurew said:

All of these countries are rivals and enemies and want to destroy each other and dominate each other and politically and ideologically are opposites, but this one time they did all of this high risk lying and information hiding in order to make some money, while on the surface spending millions and billions to fight each other.

They're spending millions and billions of taxpayer's money to fight each other and divide and rule the world. But, when it's time to fill their own pockets, they unite! 

And keep in mind that it's their armies doing the fighting. They're sitting pretty in their castles as billionaires!! 

8 hours ago, zurew said:

Some of the most nationalist countries are fucking over their own people and work together with the collaboration of their enemies in order to make some money

The whole 'enemy' thing is in theory. In practice, everyone else who's an elite is their friend and ambitious middle-class people are their enemy. And they want to exert control over the lower classes by abusing the government. So, they're coming up with tricks to destroy democracy. 

8 hours ago, zurew said:

All of these companies and countries know the exact fine line what to not step over in order to maintain the illusion that they don't work together, so they can shit on each other but not too much in order to not piss off any other companies and countries and still make some money.

They're professional marketers, brand-managers of billion-dollar companies. They're very good at what they do. 

8 hours ago, zurew said:

In your head this somehow makes sense - even though the vaccine marketing war is literally lost by Russia, because the sputnik vaccine is not famous at all and most countries don't accept that vaccine, and Russia is being damaged by the sanctions , and Russia's image is literally worse than shit since they started their war in Ukraine,  Russia still doesn't say anything bad about the Western vaccines, while also saying a bunch of bad things about the West and claim that the west is evil and the West is the reason for the war. So they could gain enormous narrative and political control by displaying information about the dangers of western vaccines but they still don't do it for some magical reason(s).

In a war, they have to be partisan and pick sides. But, in business, if you fairly lost a vaccine-war and you complain about it, no one's going to listen to you. They lose credibility when they lose the vax-war! And they also understand this. 

8 hours ago, zurew said:

All of these countries have their own allies and by working together with their allies they could have gained political and narrative power by showcasing evidence about the vaccines, and all these countries and allies are collaborating against their enemies all the time, but just this one special time they said no to all that.

Business comes first, nationalism comes second. They won't throw stones on other people's houses when their own house is made of glass. 

8 hours ago, zurew said:

-You are acting like even within certain countries especially in democratic countries there are no internal battles regarding to the vaccines, you are acting as if there is no incentive there to showcase evidence-  especially when it comes to the west (left vs right), the right has a bunch of antivaxxers but according to you they probably just refuse to show any evidence for whatever magical reasons even though they could paint the libs, the democrats and socialists as devils or dumb people.

Anti-vaxxers do show evidence. The scientific-establishment just refuses to accept it! And they use brute-force to cancel anti-vaxxers, which is why you'll never see it on the mainstream. 

Alt-media has answers on this front. They're doing everything you're saying they could do. 

This is a very, very partisan environment. 

8 hours ago, zurew said:

You believe all that, and you have 0 evidence to show the collaboration, 0 evidence to show how the vaccines are dangerous, 0 leaks or evidence by any party or any institution or anyone. So all of these companies and countries managed to hide everything for 3 years now, so they are that powerful, but at the same time they can't control nor hide the negative political narratives or news about themselves.

All of these companies and countries together has produced literally billions of doses of these vaccines and billions of people got the vaxx, but still no one can show any concrete evidence how they are bad.

The alt-media, which has been heavily cancelled, shines light on this evidence. The elite are going to try to destroy the evidence of their own wrong-doings. But, they'll let go of people personally attacking them, because no one takes that shit seriously!! They don't care about their image, they only care about the image of their actions. Which they want people to trust. This is how they maintain their power. 

A big hint - look past your materialist-paradigm. There is no one materialist-paradigm, everyone has a different materialist-paradigm. But, the education-system and scientific-establishment is not conscious of this, which is precisely why they currently believe in indoctrination. 

[Romanov]

Just now, Romanov said:

I was agreeing with everything up until the straight white male part. Sure they’re pretty privileged and all but using that as a way to justify bigotry or hate towards them isn’t right either, that is beginning to verge on racist territory. For example, I’ve seen this extended to the point of trying to teach white kids how to hate themselves. 
When victims start ruling with an iron fist, they’re no longer victims and unfortunately this is the approach many have tried adopting. 
 

If you are against the straight white male having a place in the world then what’s your alternative? Persecuting and subjugating them?

 

[Leo Gura]

@mr_engineer If you continue to spread political nonsense, you will be banned from this sub-forum.

Do not mistake this place for Reddit.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Leo Gura

[mr_engineer]

35 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@mr_engineer If you continue to spread political nonsense, you will be banned from this sub-forum.

Do not mistake this place for Reddit.

Okay, I will shut up now, cuz I don't want to be shadow-banned. But thank you for proving my point about cancel-culture. 

'Political nonsense' At least, come up with a better excuse. Come on, Leo. You can do it. 

I'm a scientist. Show some respect to my credentials. And prove to me that you don't ban reasonable opinions by credentialed people, will you?! That's how you prove to me that this isn't a shadow-ban threat. 

You use the shadows of owning a forum, I use the shadows of owning credentials. 

Edited January 12, 2023 by mr_engineer

[Devin]

25 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

Okay, I will shut up now, cuz I don't want to be shadow-banned. But thank you for proving my point about cancel-culture. 

'Political nonsense' At least, come up with a better excuse. Come on, Leo. You can do it. 

I'm a scientist. Show some respect to my credentials. And prove to me that you don't ban reasonable opinions by credentialed people, will you?! That's how you prove to me that this isn't a shadow-ban threat. 

You seem young, don't waste your life being bitter and lying to yourself like this playing the victim.

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, mr_engineer said:

Okay, I will shut up now, cuz I don't want to be shadow-banned. But thank you for proving my point about cancel-culture. 

'Political nonsense' At least, come up with a better excuse. Come on, Leo. You can do it. 

I'm a scientist. Show some respect to my credentials. And prove to me that you don't ban reasonable opinions by credentialed people, will you?! That's how you prove to me that this isn't a shadow-ban threat. 

You use the shadows of owning a forum, I use the shadows of owning credentials. 

You come here and spew your bias without any sign of self-awareness.

I am not explaining anything to you because you are so biased you are beyond my help.

This forum is not a place to spew political bias. We are here to attempt a Tier 2, meta-perspective on politics. If you are unable to do that then eventually I will kick you out of here because you do not deserve to pollute the entire politics sub-forum with your unconsciousness. It's not about you, it's about maintaining a clean space for others who want to discuss politics without the typical partisan noise found elsewhere on the internet.

If you post like an unhinged extremist you will not be welcomed here. This is not a zone where all political opinions are held on equal footing. You need to have a certain level of development and self-awareness to deserve to discuss meta-politics with us because we are not interested in rehashing the same unconscious trash discussions found everywhere else online.

If you want to be part of the Actualized community, get with the program. We have certain values here that require some observance. No one is asking you to be perfect, but at least demonstrate some capacity for objectivity, openmindedness, and self-reflection.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Leo Gura

[zurew]

@mr_engineer At this point you are beyond help, your view on this has many contradictions in it,  you are ideologically driven and all that is proven by your inability to change your stance on any topic that doesn't align with your already existing political beliefs. You would rather take the most absurd and the most improbable stances , so you don't have to change anything .

You act like you care about free speech, but what you actually  care about is machinegunning your biased political takes without any interest or possibility that you could be wrong or to properly weight and analyse the given information and narratives. By doing all that your are poisioning the whole information ecology and we have to talk about surface level bullshit thats already be proven to be false, and we can't talk about more important and deeper and more complex problems and wasting everyone's time who actually care - hence you are unironically destroying free speech, that you claim to care about.