Clear critical analysis of 'woke' culture

[Victor van Rijn]

Check the video's from this youtube channel about various kinds of corruption in contemporary companies and organisations:

https://www.youtube.com/@Moon-Real/videos

[Gesundheit2]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

In a developed country if you blatantly allow your customers to be harmed you will be sued out of existence. This is also a feature not a bug. It is a key mechanism for creating a safe and pleasant society.

Just today I read of a new lawsuit against Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube by the Seattle Public School system for "exploiting the neurophysiology of the child brain".

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/01/schools-sue-social-networks-claim-they-exploit-neurophysiology-of-kids-brains/

In an underdeveloped country, if you blatantly allow your customers to be harmed you will be dead. It's basically the same thing, but without having to go through government protocols. Society always auto-regulates itself regardless of how sophisticated or corrupt its government might be. Government can be a nice addition, but it's not what creates the effect.

I think you're idolizing government, especially that of developed countries. Developed governments are more organized and structured, but that has its pros and cons.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Gesundheit2

[Leo Gura]

36 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

In an underdeveloped country, if you blatantly allow your customers to be harmed you will be dead.

That's not how it plays out in practice. In practice, in underdeveloped countries the big bully the small and individual customers have very little protection or justice. In an underdeveloped country when you go to complain to management that you've been wronged, they will beat you up and throw you out into the street. And you're not gonna do a damn thing about it because if you try, they will kill you next time.

I idolize government because I understand what its like to live without one.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Gesundheit2]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

That's not how it plays out in practice. In practice, in underdeveloped countries the big bully the small and individual customers have very little protection or justice.

The big bully the small everywhere, because of corruption, not lack of development. You need to get this.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

In an underdeveloped country when you go to complain to management that you've been wronged, they will beat you up and throw you out into the street. And you're not gonna do a damn thing about it because if you try, they will kill you next time.

I'm pretty sure you're thinking of a mafia here, not a regular business.

With a regular business owner, if he is harmful, he will get threats, a beating, or a killing. Or if it's not that bad, he will simply lose clients and self-defeat. All of this is self-regulated. No need for a government. Governments only put that procedure into an official protocol.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I idolize government because I understand what its like to live without one.

I would say you're aiming too low. You should not be just happy to have a working government. You should be seeking a less corrupt, more conscious, and more functional one. If you raise your standards, the government will improve. And vice-versa. That's the feature of democracy. The government works for you, not the other way around. If you don't watch your employees, they will slack off. Just the nature of the beast.

[mr_engineer]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's not how it plays out in practice. In practice, in underdeveloped countries the big bully the small and individual customers have very little protection or justice. In an underdeveloped country when you go to complain to management that you've been wronged, they will beat you up and throw you out into the street. And you're not gonna do a damn thing about it because if you try, they will kill you next time.

I idolize government because I understand what its like to live without one.

And, becoming big takes only one thing - decisiveness. 

We keep assuming that the 'big guys' actually deserve to be there, because they're so much better than the plebes, in terms of character. They're not. They're just more decisive. 

The key to becoming big, is decisiveness. And to decide that corrupt people don't belong there!! 

[Leo Gura]

37 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

And, becoming big takes only one thing - decisiveness.

More like ruthlessness.

But more seriously, businesses become big because they do better business than everyone else. It's not just a pure power grab. Power ultimately comes from delivering value.

Amazon is big because it delivers amazing value. Not because Jeff Bezos is a corrupt prick.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Leo Gura

[zurew]

3 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

In an underdeveloped country, if you blatantly allow your customers to be harmed you will be dead. It's basically the same thing, but without having to go through government protocols.Society always auto-regulates itself regardless of how sophisticated or corrupt its government might be

 

So do you think its a good idea to always let things escalate to the absolute highest level before society actually regulates itself? 

3 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Government can be a nice addition, but it's not what creates the effect.

Depending on the problem the government can absolutely start the effect.

1 hour ago, Gesundheit2 said:

All of this is self-regulated. No need for a government. Governments only put that procedure into an official protocol.

So if a business fucks you ower, whats better: to have a system that can help you to deal with it or no system at all where you are purely relying on your own self?

[Leo Gura]

Government IS self-regulation.

Self-regulation has already happened 1000 years ago. Now here we are. This is what it looks like. It looks way more sophisticated than you tiny brain can fathom so you don't recognize it.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Leo Gura

[mr_engineer]

32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

More like ruthlessness.

But more seriously, businesses become big because they do better business than everyone else. It's not just a pure power grab. Power ultimately comes from delivering value.

Amazon is big because it delivers amazing value. Not because Jeff Bezos is a corrupt prick.

That is correct for business. But, politics is a pure, pure, pure power-grab. Politicians advance because of how well they manipulate the masses. 

The problem with politics and government is that once a Trump-figure is in power, there are no checks and balances. Because all of the checks and balances are under him! If a politician decides 'I want to destroy the event-management industry, because I'd like to push for more online events, it promotes what Mark Zuckerberg, the guy paying me billions wants', they can just enforce lockdowns! They can indiscriminately abuse their power and put pressure on the police, who are their lap-dogs, to ignore their corruption. If a common person has a little bit of psychedelic/weed on them, they go to jail for years. (Heck, even breathing freely is a crime at this point. They want to partially restrict our breath by enforcing masks.) But, if a politician invades an entire country for wrong reasons, they roam free! And, of course, buying the media is an age-old textbook trick they use to manipulate the masses' perceptions. 

Outlawing peaceful protests is just cold. That is where democracy flies out the window and we're into authoritarianism now. This was the one trust-factor that democratic politicians held. And, they've broken it in the pandemic. This makes it so they lose the right to the monopoly on violence. The point of protests is to be able to interact with them in a non-violent way. But, looks like they don't understand non-violence anymore. And they want to shut down non-violent communication. Fine, then. Be prepared for more insurrection-like situations happening! 

Edited January 10, 2023 by mr_engineer

[Leo Gura]

@mr_engineer Dude, you keep saying nonsense. No one has outlawed protesting except in China.

[Gesundheit2]

1 hour ago, zurew said:

So do you think its a good idea to always let things escalate to the absolute highest level before society actually regulates itself? 

It depends on context.

1 hour ago, zurew said:

Depending on the problem the government can absolutely start the effect.

It cannot.

Government is not some separate entity that operates on its own. It's just human beings. When you say the government can do this or that, it's not the government that is doing anything, but the people. Without the people, there is no government, but there can be a people without government.

So, when the government starts an effect, do you really believe that the effect is meant to help the collective? Or that it's mainly for the individual government officials? The answer to this question is the degree to which corruption is spread in any country.

In reality, I can guarantee that any effect that starts from within the government is not meant to help the collective. Helping the collective has become a side effect and a marketing tool. It's not what governments are about anymore.

1 hour ago, zurew said:

So if a business fucks you ower, whats better: to have a system that can help you to deal with it or no system at all where you are purely relying on your own self?

There are pros and cons to each having a system vs. not having a system. For example, without a system, I can take my own rights by my hand. And with a system, my rights could vanish due to bribery. I'm not for either, the example is just to illustrate my point, and it would be pointless to discuss all the pros and cons in detail, because having a system is largely not a choice.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Government IS hijacks self-regulation.

And puts it in the hands of a few, which has pros and cons. It's not an ideal to worship.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Self-regulation has already happened 1000 years ago. Now here we are. This is what it looks like. It looks way more sophisticated than you tiny brain can fathom so you don't recognize it.

Well, guess what? Self-regulation is always happening, it did not stop with the invention of modern government, and it won't stop today or a million years in the future. But you can stay drunk and hold on to your government fantasies until corruption eats your country from the inside out without you even knowing.

[mr_engineer]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

@mr_engineer Dude, you keep saying nonsense. No one has outlawed protesting except in China.

They did outlaw protests in most countries during the pandemic. No social gatherings allowed. Look at what they did in Australia, Canada, the US, France. 

I'm not saying whether it was right or wrong. Because I know you're going to make a special case for the pandemic. What I'm saying is that this destroys democracy. What you're defending is not a democracy anymore, it's an authoritarian regime. 

[Leo Gura]

26 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

They did outlaw protests in most countries during the pandemic. No social gatherings allowed. Look at what they did in Australia, Canada, the US, France.

1) So what?

2) People protested a bunch anyway.

Quote

I'm not saying whether it was right or wrong. Because I know you're going to make a special case for the pandemic. What I'm saying is that this destroys democracy. What you're defending is not a democracy anymore, it's an authoritarian regime. 

Dude, you need to learn reason and moderation. You are so extremist and unreasonable in your expections for how a society works.

None of the countries you mention have anything close to an authoritain regime. You are fighting with monsters in your own head. In the real world we got democracy as its always been. It's messy, it doesn't fit your silly ideals, but it works about as good as one can expect given the complexities of life.

It's like you are deliberately looking to be contrarian and unreasonable because you got nothing better to do with your time. Go create something valuable rather than obsessing over this shit. Relax, things will be okay.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Leo Gura

[mr_engineer]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

1) So what?

This psychologically manipulates people into creating more and more edge-cases for the acceptability of authoritarianism. And, when people accept authoritarianism in more and more contexts, this gives them a free pass to take over everything. 

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

2) People protested a bunch anyway.

And those protests were violently crushed. Peaceful protests were met with brute-force. Never ever forget what they did to democracy when they did that. This is a destruction of democracy. 

The democratic way to deal with it was to sit down and have a proper conversation about it. 

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Dude, you need to learn reason and moderation. You are so extremist and unreasonable in your expections for how a society works.

My point is that you keep mentioning that 'wokeism is for democracy'. And I'm disproving what you're saying. This is not democracy at all, it's authoritarianism. 

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

None of the countries you mention have anything close to an authoritain regime. You are fighting with monsters in your own head. In the real world we got democracy as its always been. It's messy, it doesn't fit your silly ideals, but it works about as good as one cam expect given the complexities of life.

The fact that the woke people are for authoritarianism when it's time to choose between authoritarianism and democracy, doesn't bode well for the future, I can tell you that much. Because humanity has a lot of upcoming problems, like AI, climate-change, more pandemics, WWIII, to name a tiny few. The battle for democracy is going to continue through those crises too. 

[zurew]

1 hour ago, Gesundheit2 said:

It depends on context.

Okay, let me ask it this way, would you want to live in a society where there is no government?

1 hour ago, Gesundheit2 said:

It cannot.

Government is not some separate entity that operates on its own. It's just human beings

It is a separate entitiy in a way, where people are collectively behaving and working in a systematic and predictable way (and taking care of many things that wouldn't be taken care of if there is no system established) and without it we are going back to a world where everyone can do whatever the fuck they want  -hence chaos in a world where people are unconscious.

1 hour ago, Gesundheit2 said:

In reality, I can guarantee that any effect that starts from within the government is not meant to help the collective. Helping the collective has become a side effect and a marketing tool. It's not what governments are about anymore.

Thats not totally true, there is a lot of interest to actually help the collective in some ways(because the government can benefit from that too) and sometimes the incentives are coupled with society or with people in that particular country and not opposites - so I can't agree that no government is anywhere near close as liveable as a society with government. 

1 hour ago, Gesundheit2 said:

So, when the government starts an effect, do you really believe that the effect is meant to help the collective? Or that it's mainly for the individual government officials? The answer to this question is the degree to which corruption is spread in any country.

I don't think its this black and white, sometimes the incentives are aligned with people, also if corruption is the main problem, don't you think totally unregulated markets create almost the same effects if not worse ?

1 hour ago, Gesundheit2 said:

the example is just to illustrate my point

Okay, then this clears it up, I assumed you made your arguments because you actually hold a "no government is better than having a government" belief/position.

Edited January 10, 2023 by zurew

[Gesundheit2]

40 minutes ago, zurew said:

I don't think its this black and white

I literally said "degree". How did you get black and white from that?

Anyway, I'm not going to respond to everything you said, cuz it's mostly assuming I have an anti-government position, which I'm not. I'm neither pro-government, nor anti-government. For me, it is what it is.

The position that I hold, however, is anti-corruption, which sadly is not shared by most people, including Leo. Leo holds a more fundamentalist pro-government position, which is not really advanced, it's Blue/Orange at best in terms of SD.

[Lila9]

Good video, as I understand it she critisized orange (or anything else) that pretends to be green, people who virtue signaling with beliefs and ideas that they don't fully understand and truly belive in to appear superior or to gain power and money in our politically correct era. Like an organization that pretends to be feminist and pro women (while 80% of the management are men and sweeping women harassment issues under the rug) or a corporate that runs campaigns about how it cares about the environment but pollutes the environment heavily, or a group that complains about racism or oppression while it does the same to other groups ect.

 

[Danioover9000]

@Gesundheit2 @Rafael Thundercat

17 hours ago, Rafael Thundercat said:

I currently have a niece that is having difficulties due TikTok and had tried suicide. Is not just TikTok of course, family issues and the hormonal changes of teenage stage.

   It's interesting that the public school system is now suing Facebook, Tik Tok and YouTube for exploiting children's brains.

[Rafael Thundercat]

22 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Gesundheit2 @Rafael Thundercat

   It's interesting that the public school system is now suing Facebook, Tik Tok and YouTube for exploiting children's brains.

I am not sure but if we see the developmental stages, the brain is still in formation till 20's, and if I personaly look back, I was much more prone to compare myself with others, feel jealous, superior,inferior when I was young. So if anyone would tell me " hey, don't  be so influenced by this shit" I maybe would understand it logicaly but the pull would be so big in me due to my lack of self-reflection that would be harder to me to avoid unconscious conditioning. 

My niece particulary I noticed suffers from comparing her physical aspect with other girls, not even care about being more famous or more likes because she have a lot of followers but the mental confusion is there. Like fire,weapons and other tecnologies, every new gadjet humans create to extent their natural habilities create also colateral effects and what is useful to survival becomes a source of suffering and death. 

Language for example, amazing psyco-technology, a bless and a curse. 

The psyco-technology term I got from here. 

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by Rafael Thundercat

[Gesundheit2]

3 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Good video, as I understand it she critisized orange (or anything else) that pretends to be green, people who virtue signaling with beliefs and ideas that they don't fully understand and truly belive in to appear superior or to gain power and money in our politically correct era. Like an organization that pretends to be feminist and pro women (while 80% of the management are men and sweeping women harassment issues under the rug) or a corporate that runs campaigns about how it cares about the environment but pollutes the environment heavily, or a group that complains about racism or oppression while it does the same to other groups ect.

Excellently put! I wish it was obvious for everyone. That's literally what corruption is, pretending to care for the collective while actually being absolutely selfish at heart.