Clear critical analysis of 'woke' culture

[hoodrow trillson]

11 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

But that's what's being done through the cancel-culture, through the enabling of BLM-riots, through the MeToo movement, through the sexualization of children in schools by teaching them about LGBT too early. 

I don't pay attention to what people say, I pay attention to what they do. What they mean by what they say. This virtue-signalling won't work with me. We all know very well what's going on, let's not pretend otherwise. 

LOL huh???

How did you graduate school if you don’t pay attention to what people say?  You need better critical thinking skills my wojak faced boy!

[mr_engineer]

10 minutes ago, hoodrow trillson said:

LOL huh???

How did you graduate school if you don’t pay attention to what people say?  You need better critical thinking skills my wojak faced boy!

I said, I pay attention to what people mean by what they say, how they implement what they say. You need a better attention-span. 

[Danioover9000]

@mr_engineer

24 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

But that's what's being done through the cancel-culture, through the enabling of BLM-riots, through the MeToo movement, through the sexualization of children in schools by teaching them about LGBT too early. 

I don't pay attention to what people say, I pay attention to what they do. What they mean by what they say. This virtue-signalling won't work with me. We all know very well what's going on, let's not pretend otherwise. 

   If all of that is a problem, what is your social engineering proposals? How do we solve this problem of woke ism?

[hoodrow trillson]

6 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

I said, I pay attention to what people mean by what they say, how they implement what they say. You need a better attention-span. 

… that’s literally just called paying attention lmfao.  Either you pay attention or you’re not paying attention.  

Oh brother… I’m just going to let you go buddy.  May Allah bless your heart.  

[mr_engineer]

14 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@mr_engineer

   If all of that is a problem, what is your social engineering proposals? How do we solve this problem of woke ism?

• First of all, we have to stop assuming that we're so much better than the other side. We have a lot of work to do on ourselves, on simply embodying integrity. This will solve the problem of virtue-signalling and make us humbler. 
• Next, go deeper into the reasons behind why conservatives hold onto the systems they hold onto. No, it's not just selfishness. Stage Blue makes a big enemy of that, in fact. There are genuine benefits to those systems that must be acknowledged. Leo does a very good job of that in his steel-manned version of conservatism. 
• Next, we have to come up with creative solutions to the problems that these systems solve, that are better than the existing systems. For example, if the single-family household exists so that parents take responsibility for their children, but now we have scientific methods like DNA-tests that help us do that. So, we can transition to an intentional-community system that's more economically viable and that'll also solve problems like loneliness and emotional-starvation. This will require us to pass through Green and work on our relationships and our mental-health and use that knowledge to connect, not to separate. 
• And then, if you want to do something about the problems created by conservatives, make more efficient systems than theirs and out-compete them in an otherwise free market. This will get us out of the victim-mentality and into action-mode. 

Each and every one of us is responsible for the system we inhabit. Not just our position in it, the system itself. The 'oppressed' people don't seem to realize their role in creating the system that oppresses them. It's very important to first wake up to this and then use that empowerment to change the system for the better. Not to 'fight for empowerment'. 

Edited January 8, 2023 by mr_engineer

[Gesundheit2]

10 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

@mr_engineer

   If all of that is a problem, what is your social engineering proposals? How do we solve this problem of woke ism?

By speaking the truth?

Edited January 8, 2023 by Gesundheit2

[Gesundheit2]

26 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

   This thread is going down as a clasic heated derailed thread.

It's different, though.

It's not the typical left vs. right debate. It's the left vs. speaking the truth. Leftists want to cancel any criticism of the left as too early and/or pragmatically inappropriate. I thought we were supposed to speak the truth here regardless of political orientation. This is simply about truth, introspection, and self-reflection. These are the values of Actualized, as far as I know.

[Danioover9000]

@Gesundheit2

14 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

It's different, though.

It's not the typical left vs. right debate. It's the left vs. speaking the truth. Leftists want to cancel any criticism of the left as too early and/or pragmatically inappropriate. I thought we were supposed to speak the truth here regardless of political orientation. This is simply about truth, introspection, and self-reflection. These are the values of Actualized, as far as I know.

   I think it's a delicious balancing act,  one that Leo has to make to not have Actualized.org turn into reddit or 4chan in one week. So, speak the truth here but also be left with holding warning points, ignores, a ban and a sad face if said truth is said at the expense of others.

   There are probably bigger issues globally than canceling others to worry about.

[Gesundheit2]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Gesundheit2

   I think it's a delicious balancing act,  one that Leo has to make to not have Actualized.org turn into reddit or 4chan in one week. So, speak the truth here but also be left with holding warning points, ignores, a ban and a sad face if said truth is said at the expense of others.

   There are probably bigger issues globally than canceling others to worry about.

So now you're using lack of importance and irrelevance to cancel the truth. I'll add that to the list.

By the way, who in the world said anything about cancelling the left?! Can you point to such a being or quote them here? You're just imagining that cuz you're afraid that your worldview might not be as great as you want it to be. You're scared of refining your worldview and coming up with a better one that sees the problems with wokeism and transcends them. You're scared of your ideal version.

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Joel3102 said:

Is it a valid point to acknowledge that a lot of the green absurdities push people to become reactionaries?

The opposite point can also be made: regressive conservatives push Green into absurdity.

When Andrew Tate and Kanye West say the things they say, can you really blame Green for cancelling them? Are we supposed to sit around and wait for Tate and Kanye to publically rape women and deport Jews before we call them out on their depravity? Is it gaslighting and virtue-signaling to ban Kanye West or Alex Jones from doing his right-wing rants?

By its fundamentalist nature the right wing is not going to moderate itself. It will keep pushing for more and more regressive policies unless checked. If you let the right wing they will ban birth control and interracial marriage. And then they will start deporting people and reeducating the gays. And they will force their religon down everyone's throat. That's the anti-woke vision. You are not going to get "true liberalism" this way. Anti-woke reactionaries are precisely anti-liberal.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Gesundheit2]

43 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The opposite point can also be made: regressive conservatives push Green into absurdity.

When Andrew Tate and Kanye West say the things they say, can you really blame Green for cancelling them?

The biggest absurdity is that these idiots are not cancelled enough and still allowed the freedom to speak in public. Green is to blame for not being strict and tough enough about such free-speech violations.

[mr_engineer]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

When Andrew Tate and Kanye West say the things they say, can you really blame Green for cancelling them?

Yes. 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Are we supposed to sit around and wait for Tate and Kanye to publically rape women and deport Jews before we call them out on their depravity?

Yes. Actions speak louder than words. Don't make assumptions about people just because they talk shit. The woke mob forgets about 'innocent until proven guilty'. 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Is it gaslighting and virtue-signaling to ban Kanye West or Alex Jones from doing his right-wing rants?

Yes. 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

By its fundamentalist nature the right wing is not going to moderate itself. It will keep pushing for more and more regressive policies unless checked. If you let the right wing they will ban birth control and interracial marriage. And then they will start deporting people and reeducating the gays. And they will force their religon down everyone's throat. That's the anti-woke vision. You are not going to get "true liberalism" this way. Anti-woke reactionaries are precisely anti-liberal.

The 'right-wing' is not a monolith. Nor is the anti-woke vision. 

The issue with wokeness is precisely this. It turns everything into a monolith, because it is one. This is a recipe for communist authoritarianism. 

Edited January 8, 2023 by mr_engineer

[mr_engineer]

This is what the woke people sound like when they enforce lockdowns and the jab. And when they talk about 'conspiracy-theorists'. 'Those of you who leave their houses tonight will be prosecuted as a terrorist without leniency or exception'. 

[Girzo]

51 minutes ago, mr_engineer said:

The woke mob forgets about 'innocent until proven guilty'.

Man, in what world do you live, anti-semitic rants are crime in itself.

 

[mr_engineer]

15 minutes ago, Girzo said:

Man, in what world do you live, anti-semitic rants are crime in itself.

 

Right. Tomorrow, saying that 'not all women are angels' is going to be a crime, too, I guess. Of 'misogyny'. We're almost there, in fact. Congratulations. 

In fact, why have an opinion at all?! Make that a crime too! You are under arrest for having this opinion. What did it do?! Oh, nothing, it made our safe-space impure with your vile ideas. 

We're already making leaving your house a crime and breathing freely a crime. And expressing yourself online a crime. What next? Is thinking the wrong thoughts also going to be a crime?! Is walking on two legs also going to be a crime?! What is the agenda of the woke mob here?! 

Edited January 8, 2023 by mr_engineer

[Joel3102]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The opposite point can also be made: regressive conservatives push Green into absurdity.

When Andrew Tate and Kanye West say the things they say, can you really blame Green for cancelling them? Are we supposed to sit around and wait for Tate and Kanye to publically rape women and deport Jews before we call them out on their depravity? Is it gaslighting and virtue-signaling to ban Kanye West or Alex Jones from doing his right-wing rants?

By its fundamentalist nature the right wing is not going to moderate itself. It will keep pushing for more and more regressive policies unless checked. If you let the right wing they will ban birth control and interracial marriage. And then they will start deporting people and reeducating the gays. And they will force their religon down everyone's throat. That's the anti-woke vision. You are not going to get "true liberalism" this way. Anti-woke reactionaries are precisely anti-liberal.

Why do you think the American right has gone so crazy recently? The Bush era conservatives seem so reasonable in comparison, to the point where many of them are straight up Democrats now.

[mr_engineer]

7 hours ago, Hardkill said:

What about you? 

Nice deflection. 

[Rafael Thundercat]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

But our society is nowhere developed or mature enough for Tier 2. Wilber makes this same mistake of talking about Green as though we should already be beyond it, when obviously most of the world still has yet to experience Green. Half of America demonizes Green. This is a fact you cannot deny. So there cannot be Yellow any time soon.

 

I had a weird experience with this. I came one day after a 5 day retreat of Ayahuasca, and inside the retreat you  are inside of such a bubble of high consciousness that you cant compare with anything else. In the group everything flows, you are going around doing your shores and arrive in the places in the rigth time to hear something important from somebody or help someone in some activity.

Is everything syncronized as an well oiled machine.

When I came back to the "world" it felt like I was coming back to an old Era in time, felt like I came back to 1970. A real feeling of Time traveling,  felt like I was in that movie where you enter in a car and goes back.

So this experience it gave me the insigth to don't conflate your level of consciousness with the level of consciousness your society are. If you get higher, be ready to become patient and compassionate because you will see a lot of unconsciousness and sometimes just watch it and accept as part of the growth process.

And is normal that this happens, because most part of people in this world are not engaged in doing inner work with or without psycadelics. I have a brother that don't  read a single book in years. Is not a surprise that my communication with him don't flow. There is no judgment, I just choose to be a reader. 

Some people are stuck in lower levels of personality development, and is both a individual problem (Lack of self-relfection)  and a structural one ( as Leo said once, Society don't give praise if someone declare he/her is in a Mission to become Self-Realized) 

You can't make a song from your phone play in a Atari console. The Atari dont have Bluetooth yet. And you cant fit a VHS tape in a DvD player.

Is like my capacity to express myself in English. Any one who have English as a native language can spot that English is not my Mother language. I simply don't  have the software fully instaled so I try the best I can with my level of English. Same with many levels of consciousness around the world. Some things simply don't compute for some people. Not enogth Bandwith. 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Rafael Thundercat

[Girzo]

1 hour ago, mr_engineer said:

Right. Tomorrow, saying that 'not all women are angels' is going to be a crime, too, I guess. Of 'misogyny'. We're almost there, in fact. Congratulations. 

Man, how are you not banned. There's is no need for "woke mob" to do anything because the ideas you spout go against basic human decency. It's normal, mediocre humans you go against with your defense of misogyny and hate speech.

If it were 1990s, people would still argue you with this that this is unacceptable in public. That's how out of touch are the things you say.

[Wildcattt555]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

All of Teal's points are valid critiques of stage Green. But I feel like she's not acknowledging that this is just how stage Green is. What else do you expect? Nobody gives a fuck about real awakening (not even Teal's audience I would suggest). Of course Green has limits, and of course group-think, conformity, and intolerance are some of the biggest downsides of Green. But our society is nowhere developed or mature enough for Tier 2. Wilber makes this same mistake of talking about Green as though we should already be beyond it, when obviously most of the world still has yet to experience Green. Half of America demonizes Green. This is a fact you cannot deny. So there cannot be Yellow any time soon.

And also it is dangerous to make a video denouncing wokeness without at all addressing how lower stages of the Spiral will weaponize this to create a MAGA-like regression into Blue, Orange, and even Red.

When people like Tate, Trump, and Kanye dominate the news, it is political malpractice to record a video against wokeness and not address the evils of anti-wokeness. Many people will watch this video and leave with the conclusion that woke is bad and anti-woke is good.

The danger posed by Green is less than the danger posed by Blue and Orange. You cannot discusss Green in isolation from its alternatives. The alternative is not Yellow, it's Orange, Blue, and even Red.

If Teal is seriously gonna complain about gaslighting, how about the masters of gaslighting: the right-wing? As if cries of reverse-racism and reverse-sexism by the right are not the mother of all gaslights. The right has been gaslighting about racism for 200 years.