feel like there is nothing more to realize, what to do?

[Moksha]

2 hours ago, axiom said:

Noone can say if space and time do / do not exist. That which seems to appear seems to appear.

Before you awakened to no-self, what would you have said if you were told that you are not ultimately real? Perhaps something like the above, replacing "space and time" with "I". Is it possible that others have directly realized the cosmos is not ultimately real? In both cases, the realizations of others are irrelevant to your own realization. But you might consider whether a similar direct realization about the cosmos is possible, regardless of whether Consciousness has realized it yet within you.

This sounds like it might be a bad translation or a subtle misunderstanding. In the end, there is no goal, and there is noone to realise anything.

Not a bad translation, it has a deeper meaning than the words seem to indicate, similar to Christian teachings. You keep referring to ultimate reality, which is fine, but do you acknowledge that as Consciousness you are still within the avatar in your dream? If so, does lucid dreaming affect the quality of the dream, compared to unconscious dreaming?

[axiom]

12 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

 there is. the infinite void is a source of intelligence and love. the reality is. "behind" the absolute void is the unthinkable, the absolute that is. the total glory that exists infinite. the source from which unlimited love flows. That is what we are. 

In your opinion, this is a history, right? But it couldn't be because you can't think or perceive it, you just can became it. 

I don't disagree that there is an infinite source of love and freedom. But I do not agree that this is what you / I / we are. 

The "you" was never there. It does not suddenly appear if enlightenment happens. What seems to happen is that the illusion of the "you" just completely dissolves, and that is enlightenment, so far as it can be pinned down. What is left is just this / existence / infinity / God / love / liberation. All of the things that the self formerly claimed as its own (duality), and in so doing diluting them manifold.

The workings of the world, the seasons, the movement of the sun and planets can be reasonably well explained in terms of a flat Earth by someone very attached to the idea (as a quick youtube search confirms). Or, it can be seen as an outdated legacy concept borne from a relatively naive period in human history, i.e. prior to the 5th century BC.

"You", similarly, can be seen as a legacy concept borne from a dream. Enlightenment, if it does anything, exposes it and outgrows it.

In the end, a "you" can only be shoehorned into what is. It doesn't fit, just as an obese woman doesn't fit into a size 0 dress.

Edited January 11, 2023 by axiom

[axiom]

11 hours ago, NondualesStudium said:

Are you the self?

You are asking this of words on a screen.

[axiom]

10 hours ago, Moksha said:

Before you awakened to no-self, what would you have said if you were told that you are not ultimately real?

It seems likely that I would have argued until I was blue in the face: "But I am here! I have free will! I have a point of view! Don't be ridiculous!" And so on. I would have taken it very personally 

10 hours ago, Moksha said:

Is it possible that others have directly realized the cosmos is not ultimately real?

Only an apparent self can make things seem real or not. "Real" and "cosmos" are just ideas. What seems to be is what seems to be, but nothing can really be said about it (even this).

10 hours ago, Moksha said:

Do you acknowledge that as Consciousness you are still within the avatar in your dream?

There is an apparent point of view. But "consciousness" is an inference based on what seems to appear plus apparent (illusory) ownership. Ownership and thus consciousness is not a real thing. There is only directness. God. Infinity. This.

Edited January 11, 2023 by axiom

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, axiom said:

1 hour ago, axiom said:

The "you" was never there. It does not suddenly appear if enlightenment happens. What seems to happen is that the illusion of the "you" just completely dissolves

 

OK, when you refer to the self you mean the energy it controls. I agree, enlightenment is partly the dissolution of this energy, which when controlled separates between you and not you.

[axiom]

@Breakingthewall 

If you mean that the self / Self includes the sense of being in control, then yes. There is no actual control.

 

[BlessedLion]

On 1/7/2023 at 8:27 PM, Razard86 said:

Can you maintain that connection to that peace, live from that state and not succumb to self-sabotage. Can you find a passion to pursue where you can allow that peace to emanate to others and wake up that possibility within them.

Solid advice

[Moksha]

12 hours ago, axiom said:

It seems likely that I would have argued until I was blue in the face: "But I am here! I have free will! I have a point of view! Don't be ridiculous!" And so on. I would have taken it very personally 

Only an apparent self can make things seem real or not. "Real" and "cosmos" are just ideas. What seems to be is what seems to be, but nothing can really be said about it (even this).

There is an apparent point of view. But "consciousness" is an inference based on what seems to appear plus apparent (illusory) ownership. Ownership and thus consciousness is not a real thing. There is only directness. God. Infinity. This.

It seems silly now that you have awakened to no-self  Tomorrow, in 10 years, or maybe not in the lifetime of this avatar, it could seem similarly silly to claim it is impossible to realize whether or not the cosmos is ultimately real. You never know what is around the next corner of the dream. The key is to stay open, and prepare yourself, for deeper realizations that your ultimate Self is willing to see within your avatar.

The profound difference between direct realization and conceptualization is that truth is no longer up for debate. It is beyond ideas and what seems to be, as you must have seen when you directly realized no-self.

You are still bound by the dream, as all of us are. Self is more lucid in some avatars than in others, but it is still within the dream. Realizing ultimate reality is awe-inspiring, but afterwards you still get to chop wood and carry water. Done lucidly, even mundane tasks take on a quality that is unimaginable to avatars within whom the Self still patiently waits to realize itself.

[axiom]

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

You are still bound by the dream, as all of us are.

When you knock down all the walls of a house, you are no longer inside, and it is no longer a house.

[Moksha]

3 hours ago, axiom said:

When you knock down all the walls of a house, you are no longer inside, and it is no longer a house.

Are you denying that you’re still in the dream? You have realized it is a dream, but are still bound by it. Telling yourself that it isn’t real won”t improve your dream experience. You created the dream for a reason, and it goes beyond the realization to expressing your true nature within the dream.

[Yimpa]

25 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Are you denying that you’re still in the dream? You have realized it is a dream, but are still bound by it. 

Yes  

Imagine building a beautiful Lego set and being pissed off that it isn’t real 

[axiom]

5 hours ago, Moksha said:

Are you denying that you’re still in the dream? You have realized it is a dream, but are still bound by it. Telling yourself that it isn’t real won”t improve your dream experience. You created the dream for a reason, and it goes beyond the realization to expressing your true nature within the dream.

“The dream experience” does not need to be - and cannot be - improved.

The dream is the self.

There is no “your true nature” because there is no you.

”You created the dream for a reason”

This is inference. Appearance does not come with a reason. Appearance is pure and complete.

The self wants to make meaning out of what is because it feels separate and incomplete. And in so doing it perpetuates the dream.

Edited January 12, 2023 by axiom

[TRUTHWITHCAPITALT]

@Theplay Contemplate from the Godhead POV.

[Razard86]

3 hours ago, axiom said:

“The dream experience” does not need to be - and cannot be - improved.

The dream is the self.

There is no “your true nature” because there is no you.

”You created the dream for a reason”

This is inference. Appearance does not come with a reason. Appearance is pure and complete.

The self wants to make meaning out of what is because it feels separate and incomplete. And in so doing it perpetuates the dream.

There is only dream. All is dream. All is story. What you are currently communicating is story. What you are communicating is an interpretation of said dream. You like all appearances of the dream were sent here to make sense of it. What you are communicating is your own sense of it. But your sense of it, is to deny you are making sense of it....while trying to make sense of it.

This is a silly game, the game of denial that you are playing the game. You deny the dream, within the dream. It's a rather funny game this Neo- Advaita game.

[VeganAwake]

8 hours ago, Moksha said:

Are you denying that you’re still in the dream?

He's trying to tell you that the dreamer and the dream never happened, It was an illusion.

You have realized it is a dream, but are still bound by it.

He's saying there never was a dream or anyone bound in the first place. 

Telling yourself that it isn’t real won”t improve your dream experience.

He's pointing out that there just isn't a yourself regardless of how any experience seems to be.

You created the dream for a reason, and it goes beyond the realization to expressing your true nature within the dream.

He's trying to tell you that the conditioned sense of self(illusion) overlays reality with a strong sense of meaning, purpose and value, and then functions from this conditioned perspective(dream story).

♥  

 

 

 

 

[axiom]

1 hour ago, Razard86 said:

This is a silly game, the game of denial that you are playing the game. You deny the dream, within the dream. It's a rather funny game this Neo- Advaita game.

The feedback loop of selfing is the cosmic joke. No one was sent here to make sense of anything. That is the dream.

[Raptorsin7]

@axiom What is your human life like?

Do you a family? Career?

What are your goals 

[axiom]

2 hours ago, Raptorsin7 said:

@axiom What is your human life like?

Do you a family? Career?

What are your goals 

Life seems good, fun, enjoyable. No career anymore as such (I was involved in running businesses for many years, sold a few, made money). I write books, I paint, and I sometimes make films. I have a two-months young baby daughter. No major goals as such.

The things I do now seem to be imbued with a lot more fun and much more of an easygoing attitude than in the past. Life seems like play. 

The story arc of the character seemed to go from severe depression through to complete contentment over a period of say 35 years. 

All of the above can only be said to be apparent, because in truth no one is ever born, and no one actually lives a life.

[Breakingthewall]

30 minutes ago, axiom said:

All of the above can only be said to be apparent, because in truth no one is ever born, and no one actually lives a life

True. Everything is a complex mental construction that is happening right now. Do you realize this everytime that you meditate?

Btw, your life sound great. What kind of books are you writing? 

[Razard86]

3 hours ago, axiom said:

The feedback loop of selfing is the cosmic joke. No one was sent here to make sense of anything. That is the dream.

Axiom is a story that tells itself the story that it is a cosmic joke the end. Notice how Axiom is still telling a story. The story/dream/God, even erects stories where it tries to not tell a story. 

You are playing the ultimate game of denial, the NOT IT story. NOT IT!!! LOL. 

Here is a secret to escape all stories and traps you erect....The Truth IS WHAT IS. Use that as your guide.

As long as you stick to that you can never be trapped, but if you avoid what is....in any way....then you are stuck.

No Self- Realization is only one piece of the puzzle. An important piece but only one piece. All knowledge is known through contrast. You cannot realize a no self, without a self. The self LITERALLY DEFINES the no self. Without a no self there literally cannot be a self. The self is made up of the same thing as the no self. Which means they are one. One is permanent the other is impermanent. But in actuality its just impermanent expression arising in permanent non expression.

The no self expression, cannot ever realize what it is, without a self expression. This is why the no-self is not a complete realization. It MUST acknowledge the self as well, so to avoid the no-self as just an appearance is to contradict. Why? Because there is no difference between the self and no-self, the self needs to appear different to create a contrast. But if the self is an appearance then so must be the self. So BOTH THE SELF- AND NO- SELF ARE APPEARANCES.

You see? Anything you say about the no-self IS EQUALLY TRUE ABOUT THE SELF.

Neo-Advaita just plays the game of denial because it FEARS ITSELF. Its how mantra is oh if you truly get this then you avoid having to come back into the dream....can you believe this nonsense? THERE IS ONLY DREAM!!! There is no where to go, there is no end to dreaming!!! You will dream for eternity!! This Neo-Advaita story is a hilarious denial of epic proportions!!!

But I realize the purpose, because one thing they are really good at doing, is getting the separate self model story dropped. They are very effective at ripping you of all meaning and purpose. Nobody is better at communicating no-self better than Advaita. Their fear of the self is so profound, it actually makes them more effective. So it has value relative to that particular realization, after that...it will need to be dropped.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Razard86