feel like there is nothing more to realize, what to do?

[Razard86]

3 hours ago, Moksha said:

Meditation is my mainstay. It is like judo training for the mind. You reach the point where thoughts and emotions, no matter how apparently urgent, are allowed to flow through without grasping or resistance. They are realized to be energy patterns, nothing more. From awareness, any action required by the present moment is clearly seen. You no longer lose yourself in the melodrama of the mind. It is an amazing transformation. While life continues to throw challenges your way, they are no longer a problem, but a tempering force for deeper growth. Eventually no matter what winds blow, you are a still flame.

Recommended reading:

The Untethered Soul by Michael Singer

The Mind Illuminated by John Yates

10% Happier by Dan Harris

That said, don't worry about falling back. It happens to most of us, and is actually the pathway forward. There is a French expression, reculer pour mieux sauter, which means taking a step back to jump farther forward. Both personal and cosmic evolution have regressive cycles which lead to higher states of transcendence. All part of the conscious journey.

 

You are a joy to read.

[Yimpa]

18 hours ago, Theplay said:

Yes all I want to do now is help others on that path if they will need it.

If they need anything, it’s actually to see themselves as you. The pathless path. 

[iboughtleosbooklist]

There's nobody to help. This is just a dream. Once you realize that you're already whole and complete all that's left to do is exist. Get nice and comfy and enjoy your lucidity.

[UnbornTao]

I'm sure there's a lot of stuff yet to be understood, you just have to be honest and get over this "I'm done" feeling. Unless you want to stop wherever you're at, but it's possible you're fooling yourself. This is where a master comes in handy -- she can point out one's ignorance and blindspots.

You might be going through a plateau. Also don't confuse truth with feeling good.

Do you know everything there is to know? Do you understand everything, absolute and relative? Have you transformed completely? Have you mastered mind and life?

Edited January 10, 2023 by UnbornTao

[axiom]

 

On 07/01/2023 at 10:11 AM, Theplay said:

What to do next?

Next is the realisation that you have never done anything, and that there is nothing that could ever be done because you are not there, and you never were.

There is much in your opening post that resonates strongly. Seeking of any kind becomes a cosmic joke. Once every path in the labyrinth has been visited, the foundations crumble. Seeking wholeness in itself is seen as the very root of suffering and unfulfilment, and is the pernicious drive behind all spirituality which, ultimately, is completely transcended.

There is no longer any desire left to find meaning, no matter how novel the means. Spirituality is seen as mere silliness, a child's game of hide and seek. A game which is most definitely over.

Then, there is no need to do anything. There is no way to do anything. Noone there. Things just appear, as they always did.

Edited January 9, 2023 by axiom

[Moksha]

@Razard86 ?

@axiom How neo-advaita of you  But not so seriously, when a child discovers there is no Santa Claus, where is the joy in Christmas? He could retire to a cave for the rest of his life, dejected by the dissolving of his illusion. Or he could realize the deeper meaning of love that the mythological being represents, and is his true nature. Either way, he hasn't left the dream yet. Why not celebrate it lucidly, and love his way through life? The realization makes the mystery of life all the more amazing, and when the dam finally breaks, there is a flood of light and creativity which never would have been possible before.

[axiom]

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

@Razard86 ?

@axiom How neo-advaita of you  But not so seriously, when a child discovers there is no Santa Claus, where is the joy in Christmas? He could retire to a cave for the rest of his life, dejected by the dissolving of his illusion. Or he could realize the deeper meaning of love that the mythological being represents, and is his true nature. Either way, he hasn't left the dream yet. Why not celebrate it lucidly, and love his way through life? The realization makes the mystery of life all the more amazing, and when the dam finally breaks, there is a flood of light and creativity which never would have been possible before.

Just regular old advaita.

Whatever the child does or does not do, there is  no choice involved. No person behind it. The child is just an appearance.

"Why not celebrate it lucidly" - No choice either way. 

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by axiom

[Theplay]

@UnbornTao Hi and thank you for the answer.

I don't just feel good I feel like I have become the truth myself instead of knowing it.

I know that the closest I can be to realizing what the nothingness of god is is simply not to use the mind.

I feel like there is no difference between the unenlightened state and the enlightened state

all that has changed is that now its pure experience without a 'me'.

Of course I don't know all there is to know its impossible ill rather say i'm in a  state

of complete not knowing.

I did not transform completely I am just as i was before my insights :

i still smoke

i still enjoy the company of good friends

I think that after enlightenment there needs to happen a period of hard work on your character

and habits.

I wont say I mastered life yet but i am damn good at enjoying it right now.

And instead of mastering mind I've escaped it.

@axiom What you wrote is so damn good it resonated with me so much

It is definitely a play of hide and seek  

Found ya!

 

 

[Moksha]

15 hours ago, axiom said:

Just regular old advaita.

Whatever the child does or does not do, there is  no choice involved. No person behind it. The child is just an appearance.

Regular old advaita celebrates the royal secret, which far from apathy is the phenomenal joy of living lucidly within the dream:

This royal knowledge, this royal secret, is the greatest purifier. Righteous and imperishable, it is a joy to practice and can be directly experienced.

- Bhagavad Gita 9:2

I agree that the child is just an appearance. But its ultimate nature, which is God, is free to choose its dream adventure. The imagination of God is limitless. Why would God realize itself only to mock the foolishness of its unawakened characters, rather than loving itself by awakening within them as well?

[Eternal Unity]

On 7.1.2023 at 0:11 PM, Theplay said:

As doing this work is my passion I'm interested in what to do next 

That's the answer. Keep on living 

[axiom]

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

Regular old advaita celebrates the royal secret, which far from apathy is the phenomenal joy of living lucidly within the dream:

This royal knowledge, this royal secret, is the greatest purifier. Righteous and imperishable, it is a joy to practice and can be directly experienced.

- Bhagavad Gita 9:2

I agree that the child is just an appearance. But its ultimate nature, which is God, is free to choose its dream adventure. The imagination of God is limitless. Why would God realize itself only to mock the foolishness of its unawakened characters, rather than loving itself by awakening within them as well?

Mocking and apathy are not innate qualities of enlightenment. But the whole spectrum of emotions can still happen just as they apparently did before. Being apparently awake or asleep is exactly the same from the perspective of what is. Both are simply appearance and as such are are already perfect, without meaning.

What is different, probably, is that no veil of selfhood remains. No staking of any claim to what is. No need, and no way, to make this any more this than it is.

This, I would suggest, is what is meant by "the royal secret". Absolute directness and immediacy. Full saturation, full colour. No self standing in the way.

Edited January 10, 2023 by axiom

[Moksha]

1 hour ago, axiom said:

Mocking and apathy are not innate qualities of enlightenment. But the whole spectrum of emotions can still happen just as they apparently did before. Being apparently awake or asleep is exactly the same from the perspective of what is. Both are simply appearance and as such are are already perfect, without meaning.

What is different, probably, is that no veil of selfhood remains. No staking of any claim to what is. No need, and no way, to make this any more this than it is.

This, I would suggest, is what is meant by "the royal secret". Absolute directness and immediacy. Full saturation, full colour. No self standing in the way.

By mocking and apathy, I'm referring to the neo-advaita platitudes about spirituality: This life is an empty illusion; you have never done anything and will never do anything, so why care about living joyfully and with love?

Advaita answers that yes, life is an illusion created by Brahman but for a divine purpose. It is true that there is no journey, no growth, and no enlightenment in ultimate reality. These are the reasons Brahman created the cosmos. It treasures the dream of journey, of growth, and of enlightenment. The purpose of life is to undertake and realize this journey, as mystics of every spiritual tradition have realized. When the purpose is fulfilled, Brahman rewards itself with a flood of divine resonance, which is experienced in the avatar as joy, creativity, and love which surpass all understanding.

Thoughts and emotions still happen after enlightenment, but the difference is that you no longer identify with them. When they are positive, you no longer cling to them and when they are negative, you no longer resist them. It is the sublime state of lucid dreaming. Far better than the self-perpetuated suffering which condemns us to a hellish existence until we are ready to realize our true nature.

Claiming that both states are simply appearance and already perfect denies this transformative distinction within the dream. As long as you are bound to the dream, why not lucidly celebrate it? It is why you created the dream in the first place.

I agree that the royal secret is absolute directness, without the illusion of the self standing in the way. But absolute directness doesn't dissolve the dream. It only awakens you to the reality of being in a dream, without freeing you from it. If I am dreaming lucidly, rather than sulking in a dank cave until I die, I choose to fly.

[axiom]

56 minutes ago, Moksha said:

I'm referring to the neo-advaita platitudes about spirituality: This life is an empty illusion; you have never done anything and will never do anything, so why care about living joyfully and with love?

This type of messaging may be out there somewhere, but I haven't seen any examples of it. The notion of "so why care?" sounds like a misunderstanding, since noone is there to care or not. Apathy implies there is someone there who can be apathetic... and there isn't, so this is not apathy.

Life... it depends what is meant by life. The living of a life, yes - that is illusion. Life in general (that is, whatever seems to be appearing) may be empty but it is not illusory. The only illusion is the self (and all of the bells and whistles that go along with selfhood)

So long as there is someone there who believes they can lucidly celebrate a dream, then that whole thing is still the dream. All distinctions - apparently transformative or otherwise - within the dream are the dream. The dream is the sense of selfhood, ownership and doership.

Edited January 10, 2023 by axiom

[Breakingthewall]

10 minutes ago, axiom said:

The only illusion is the self

Could you define self?

Edited January 10, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[axiom]

@Breakingthewall That's not very easy. But I would say it is something like: the sense of existing as a disconnected, autonomous, unfulfilled and insatiable conscious being with a personal history.

I have also heard it referred to more succinctly as "seeking energy", and that seems like a good definition too.

Edited January 10, 2023 by axiom

[Breakingthewall]

3 minutes ago, axiom said:

@Breakingthewall That's not very easy. But I would say it is something like: the sense of existing as a disconnected, autonomous, unfulfilled and insatiable conscious being with a personal history.

So you mean the ego. But if you completely empty that of content, until only leave unlimited emptiness, there is still a sense of existence. as long as this is so, there is self

[Moksha]

19 minutes ago, axiom said:

This type of messaging may be out there somewhere, but I haven't seen any examples of it. The notion of "so why care?" sounds like a misunderstanding, since noone is there to care or not. Apathy implies there is someone there who can be apathetic... and there isn't, so this is not apathy.

My reference to "you have never done anything and will never do anything" was a direct quote from this thread  Apathy does not imply there is someone there to be apathetic. It implies that Consciousness has not yet realized itself within that avatar. 

Life in general (that is, whatever seems to be appearing) may be empty but it is not illusory. The only illusion is the self (and all of the bells and whistles that go along with selfhood)

The entire cosmos is illusory, not just the appearance of the self. Space and time do not ultimately exist, only relatively.

So long as there is someone there who believes they can lucidly celebrate a dream, then that whole thing is still the dream. All distinctions - apparently transformative or otherwise - within the dream are the dream. The dream is the sense of selfhood, ownership and doership.

Lucidity means true seeing. In the spiritual context, a lucid dream is simply Consciousness realizing itself while indwelling an avatar in the cosmos. The avatar doesn't realize or choose anything on its own. It is all Consciousness, which includes but is beyond the avatar, calling the shots.

The dream is the entire cosmos, and awakening does not cause the cosmos to disappear. It is simply the direct realization by Consciousness that it is not the form it currently inhabits within the dream. It still goes through the dream knowing this, but navigates it with Self-realized wisdom, creativity, and love.

One person in many thousands may seek perfection, yet of these only a few reach the goal and come to realize me.

- Bhagavad Gita 7:3

The above doesn't imply that a separate person autonomously seeks perfection and attains enlightenment. It is Consciousness within that person that takes this dream journey.

[axiom]

23 minutes ago, Moksha said:

My reference to "you have never done anything and will never do anything" was a direct quote from this thread

Yes, and that is true. There is noone.

23 minutes ago, Moksha said:

The entire cosmos is illusory, not just the appearance of the self. Space and time do not ultimately exist, only relatively.

Noone can say if space and time do / do not exist. That which seems to appear seems to appear.

23 minutes ago, Moksha said:

In the spiritual context, a lucid dream is simply Consciousness realizing itself while indwelling an avatar in the cosmos. The avatar doesn't realize or choose anything on its own. It is all Consciousness, which includes but is beyond the avatar, calling the shots.

Yes, this sounds along the right lines. I think consciousness is a misleading pointer however.

23 minutes ago, Moksha said:

The dream is the entire cosmos, and awakening does not cause the cosmos to disappear.

Yes... awakening doesn't really change anything.

23 minutes ago, Moksha said:

One person in many thousands may seek perfection, yet of these only a few reach the goal and come to realize me.

This sounds like it might be a bad translation or a subtle misunderstanding. In the end, there is no goal, and there is noone to realise anything.

Edited January 10, 2023 by axiom

[Breakingthewall]

12 minutes ago, axiom said:

Yes, and that is true. There is noone.

 there is. the infinite void is a source of intelligence and love. the reality is. "behind" the absolute void is the unthinkable, the absolute that is. the total glory that exists infinite. the source from which unlimited love flows. That is what we are. 

In your opinion, this is a history, right? But it couldn't be because you can't think or perceive it, you just can became it. 

[Ramu]

Chop wood and carry water