Ketamin study on depression failed!

[Raptorsin7]

  @ardacigin Hey, you were a student of the guy wrote TMI right?

I'm curious about the role between medication and purification of the mind/being. If the guy wrote a book about meditation and meditation works to purify you, then how did he still get involved in sex scandals?

[Yimpa]

On 1/6/2023 at 4:27 PM, OBEler said:

https://www.greenmarketreport.com/atai-life-sciences-ketamine-treatment-for-depression-fails-in-mid-stage-trial/

they gave 110 people with non treatable depression 30 mg or 60 mg r ketamin (IV) or placebo. After the day and after two weeks there were no significant differences between placebo group and ketamin group. 

This is surprising, for everyone, because there are so many anecdotes out there and other studies, which show that ketamin can drastically improve depression even long term.

Was the study design not good (dosis too low, just one trip) or are there really no effects of ketamin on depression?  What do you think about this?

Ketamine IV works for me, but I also take other medication and supplements + I’ve chosen to made drastic life changes in my life recently. I’ve also been privileged to do ketamine IV under the guidance of a shaman / therapist. 

So it’s not a black and white answer whether or not ketamine works on depression. I certainly wouldn’t be eligible to be in a scientific research study due to the various drugs and supplements I take + having comorbidity (i.e. depression, anxiety, ADHD, OCD, autism).

Science is too rigid with how they operate, which is kinda why I’m glad I don’t fit into their narrow paradigm.

[ardacigin]

8 minutes ago, Raptorsin7 said:

  @ardacigin Hey, you were a student of the guy wrote TMI right?

I'm curious about the role between medication and purification of the mind/being. If the guy wrote a book about meditation and meditation works to purify you, then how did he still get involved in sex scandals?

Culadasa has been portrayed in a different way than what actually happened. It was partly Culadasa's fault for not being too direct and cutting the 'BS' as soon as the misinformation came out. 

There is no actual affair. Or 'scandal'. He was separated from his wife at the time and just moved on with his life like everyone else. You can also read his letter explaining the situation properly on his website.

Also, Culadasa died recently. I dont know if you are aware.

[Raptorsin7]

1 minute ago, ardacigin said:

Culadasa has been portrayed in a different way than what actually happened. It was partly Culadasa's fault for not being too direct and cutting the 'BS' as soon as the misinformation came out. 

There is no actual affair. Or 'scandal'. He was separated from his wife at the time and just moved on with his life like everyone else. You can also read his letter explaining the situation properly on his website.

Also, Culadasa died recently. I dont know if you are aware.

I see.

Yeah, i'm aware he died recently but this has been on my mind for a while.

I've felt the purifying effects of meditation on retreat, but at the same time i've never seen someone who was committed to the meditative path solely who I felt was a true Christ/Buddha.

Can you provide a link for his explanation?

[OBEler]

@Yimpa Did you go to the shaman and took ketamin there? What does the shaman do different with ketamin than in clinical sessions?

[Grateful Dead]

4 hours ago, ardacigin said:

There is no actual affair. Or 'scandal'.

Didn't he sleep with his students?

[ardacigin]

1 hour ago, acidgoofy said:

Didn't he sleep with his students?

He dated women after separating from his wife. But it wasnt an official divorce due to who gets what etc. The board community and misunderstood/made the situation as if he cheated her and lied to her while in a relationship etc. He didnt sleep with any of his students.

Edited January 11, 2023 by ardacigin

[Grateful Dead]

@ardacigin Okay nice. I think I heard on a Michael Taft podcast that he slept with students who were at his retreat center. That didn't sound good...

[Yimpa]

6 hours ago, OBEler said:

@Yimpa Did you go to the shaman and took ketamin there?

Yep, 7 sessions with the shaman; then 1 solo (well, technically still a medical worker monitoring me in the room lol).

Also, she’s not a self-proclaimed shaman, some patients just poke fun at that label onto her since she’s pretty out there and definitely not a conventional therapist.

6 hours ago, OBEler said:

@Yimpa What does the shaman do different with ketamin than in clinical sessions?

I’ve never done ketamine in a clinical trial or research study, so I don’t have a reference for what the difference could potentially be. 

If I had to guess, though, it would be that I felt more free to be myself doing it under a shaman/therapist. I don’t think I’d have the same level of comfort doing it in a super controlled setting with scientists and researches who most likely haven’t tripped themselves.

She claims she has guided thousands of trips, plus she’s done a bunch of psychedelics herself. I’d say direct experience is the major difference.

[BipolarGrowth]

Psychedelics can be very effective at reducing depressive symptoms in the short term. I can’t speak for ketamine as I’ve not tried it, but the fact that it is an FDA-approved treatment for depression should tell you enough. One or a few studies showing opposite results of other studies is pretty common. 

[Yimpa]

28 minutes ago, BipolarGrowth said:

Psychedelics can be very effective at reducing depressive symptoms in the short term. I can’t speak for ketamine as I’ve not tried it, but the fact that it is an FDA-approved treatment for depression should tell you enough. One or a few studies showing opposite results of other studies is pretty common. 

Agreed. The ultimate “goal” is to realize that you’re God; that the depressed person is a fiction / imaginary. When you realize that depression is not original to you, freedom becomes a possibility.

From my experience, SSRIs can enhance the quality of life for the depressed person, whereas ketamine can reveal what you are beyond a person.

The plot twist: all of it is imagination. all of it

[OBEler]

@Yimpa hmm ok but what Was the task of the shaman? If you compare at home alone doing this, what would be the difference 

What exactly Was the set/setting? Just laying down, closing eyes and hearing shamanic music? 

[Hugo Oliveira]

On 06/01/2023 at 9:42 PM, ardacigin said:

Your baseline emotional states (like depression) which is a multi-layered unconscious feeling directed and generated by incredibly deep illusions which include your sense of being a separate self, is not  a small thing.

 

@ardacigin 
What do you mean by that? What would be your approach? It seems like people need to become more than enlightened to heal depression in your opinion. Could you clarify it, please? 

I took 4 sessions of Ketamine in a clinic with zero results for my depression. 

[Hugo Oliveira]

On 06/01/2023 at 8:00 PM, Leo Gura said:

Depressed people need to radically change their minds

@Leo Gura I think you meant ¨serius self actualization work¨. Is that right?

[Yimpa]

6 hours ago, OBEler said:

@Yimpa hmm ok but what Was the task of the shaman?

In the beginning, the task of the shaman was to guide me on how to set high quality intentions for the trip and what to do post-trip so that I’m not caught off guard.

A few sessions later, the task was to guide me on learning how to trust myself and derive the answers for myself.

7 hours ago, OBEler said:

@Yimpa If you compare at home alone doing this, what would be the difference 

 

I don’t think mentally unstable individuals who have no experience with tripping should be tripping on their own (in the beginning, at least).

Case in point: I’m mentally unstable; my first “trips” were on cannabis a few years ago, unguided. While they were beautiful, I still had to call for mommy and daddy to save me due to it being way too intense (they don’t have any tripping experience, which makes it even more challenging).

Counterproductive in the long-term, in my opinion. 

7 hours ago, OBEler said:

@Yimpa What exactly Was the set/setting? Just laying down, closing eyes and hearing shamanic music? 

Setting was in a small rectangular room. I was lying down on a couch with a weighted blanket, an eye mask, and shamanic music playing on a speaker. I had a heart rate monitor on my index finger and a couple ECG leads near my collarbones. Shaman/therapist was sitting next to me.

Also, an “improv setting” was during one of my sessions when my therapist happened to be under the weather and coughing a bit that day. It was unplanned (and ironically perfect) because I have contamination OCD, so it actually exposed me to one of my fears strategically. 

There honestly was no set. When you’re dealing with mentally unstable individuals, that’s the set.

[Aiwass]

On 1/6/2023 at 5:27 PM, OBEler said:

https://www.greenmarketreport.com/atai-life-sciences-ketamine-treatment-for-depression-fails-in-mid-stage-trial/

they gave 110 people with non treatable depression 30 mg or 60 mg r ketamin (IV) or placebo. After the day and after two weeks there were no significant differences between placebo group and ketamin group. 

This is surprising, for everyone, because there are so many anecdotes out there and other studies, which show that ketamin can drastically improve depression even long term.

Was the study design not good (dosis too low, just one trip) or are there really no effects of ketamin on depression?  What do you think about this?

No diagnosis has a sigular cause, nor only one factor contributing to its presence. There is no one thing that will cure a psychological state as all states of consciousness are impermanent. 

Depression is a transient state not a physical object to alter with material-agents. 

We have no cures for the majority of clinical diagnosis known today. We have temporary band-aids, chronic forms of treatment for chronic impairmemts. 

♡Ask the right questions:

1. If I have an auto-immune disorder(for instance) and consume a material-agent said to cure me, but continued exposing my body to that which is causing the attack on the body, then mean the "cure-all" material I took is a lie? 

2. Is ketamine now useless or does it become a material able to temporarily alleviate certain symptoms for certain people(based on genetics and dna)?

3. How does one prove if there is improvement of depressive symptoms? With a questionnaire(self-report)? How much integrity are you placing on suck folk? 

4. I have done ketamine many times. It doesn't cure anything. It is a drug. This is mainstream chatter which is using and marketing the legality of medicinal materials for profits.  Is there a meta-study for this study? What is Depression? What is a state of consciousness? Even if they were given the limitless pill they would still be depressed because there are other parts to the puzzle which is the reason why you are PUZZLED.

[Aiwass]

On 1/11/2023 at 10:35 AM, Raptorsin7 said:

  @ardacigin Hey, you were a student of the guy wrote TMI right?

I'm curious about the role between medication and purification of the mind/being. If the guy wrote a book about meditation and meditation works to purify you, then how did he still get involved in sex scandals?

My dog(German shepherd) can write books and type on the printer. Hahahahah get it?

If you were not getting the basic need known as sex, as a male, you'd be in quite the similar situation.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Aiwass

[OBEler]

@Aiwass you said, it doesnt cure anything for you. What mental condition do you have you wanted to cure with keta? 

Keta triggers neurogenesis. I dont know if this is too little to have an effect on depression but it sounds very promising. So keta not only has a spiritual side but a biological side which should help with depression. At least thats what studys say