How Leo's teachings are becoming corrupt

[Scholar]

I have finally come to see an important, in fact essential, dynamic that one can fall victim to. In my eyes Leo has fallen to this dynamic, a trap he was unable to predict to due certain biases within his ego.

 

We all understand that to access higher states of consciousness we must alter the structure of our ego-mind. There are different ways to access higher states of consciousness. Leo is a proponent of a brute force methodology, namely the attempt to use radical psychedelic states to dissolve certain egoic structures so that we get access to higher states of consciousness. I will go into detail for why this is dysfunctional in a moment.

Now, there is one important key insight that must be kept in mind. A state of consciousness fundamentally has no evaluative quality to it. Meaning, Infinite Love is not inherently mindblowing, it is not inherently awesome. When you have a radically high consciousness experience, you are not crying in amazement because of the experience, you are crying because of the way your egoic structures react to the state.

If you were ultimately selfless, meaning you had no egoic structure, you would not get amazed by Pure Infinite Love. There would be no reaction to Pure Infinite Love, you would not deem it to be extraordinarily important. All of those things are egoic mind reactions. When Pure Infinite Love is terrifying, or beautiful, or amazing, that's all a function of egoic structures reacting to an influx of energy.

Why is this important? It's important because the degree of corruption of the teachings is determined by the difference in compatibility between the egoic structure and the state that was achieved. The more underdeveloped an ego is, the higher the corruption of the state will be once the structure re-emerges.

 

Leo is exceptionally underdeveloped for someone who has reached such high states of consciousness. His mind is far less developed than that of people who have not even remotely reached the states that he has with the help of psychedelics. This means that his insights, his understanding, his reaction to the states he is experiencing are all corrupted. His teachings are for that reason more corrupt, perverted and devilish than someone like Eckhart Tolle or Sadhguru, people who presumably have not reached the same states of consciousness.

There is an inherent limitation to the way Leo is approaching spirituality. The more violent the reaction to a given state that you achieve, the more friction there exists between your mind and the state. Violence in this means any extraordinarily intense emotional reaction, independent of positive or negative charge. To a super-developed alien being, your most intense psychedelic trip would not even evoke a reaction. It would be normal, like you looking at the color red. If this is inconceivable to you, then you do not have a prosper grasp of what ego is.

It is true that such experiences permanently change the egoic structure, and to a degree they can aid in development. However, the attempt to bent egoic structures through highly energetic states is barbaric, unsophisticated and impatient. The state can be imagined to be a highly energetic force which is discharged into the egoic structure. The less reaction to a state, the less imprint on the egoic structure, the more appropriate that state was for your mind. The higher the energetic state, the more friction there will be between your mind and that state. To use this as a developmental tool can lead to extreme dysfunction because it is akin to trying to brutally shape an object into a form that will be able to support that amount of energy. It can cause damage to a mind for that reason, damage that can be impossible for the mind itself to detect, because it is changing the very structure of the mind.

Leo's entire approach is based on an idea of reaching extreme states to induce extreme egoic friction, in an attempt to reach Infinity. The truth is, the human mind is not capable of holding Infinite Energy. It's not designed to hold that much energy, and the radicalness of his experience is only a demonstrating of the existence of egoic structures.

In the future we will not employ such methodology. We will not force inappropriate states into minds to change the structure of those minds. That's just stupid. We will change minds to allow states. It takes more time, more wisdom to do so. And this is good, it is a function of Divine Intelligence to allow for the existence of evolution. The future will not be paved by Psychonauts. The future will be built by people who create roads people can walk on, to venture further and further into the infinite realms of consciousness. In time, this methodology will get us much further than some children tripping their brains out on some psychedelics.

What Leo currently is doing is child's play, it's taking a mind and blasting it as far into Infinity as possible. So far that your ego will then inevitably corrupt it because it is not at the appropriate level to process that state. How the egoic structures will bent and permanently change in the process of energetic overload is largely random. If you use this methodology, it is literally only a matter of time before your mind will develope dysfunctions. It comes with the energetic overload, it's literal function is to shred your mind enough to allow that amount of energy to pass through for the amount of time you reside in that state.

 

In conclusion, Leo's teachings are corrupt because his mind has grown dysfunctional, but also because his mind is not developed enough to process the states which he explores during tripping. His teachings, of course, will not be the future of consciousness work. The mind structures required for a proper engagment with the infinite do not even exist today, and the people who will design those minds will not use Leo's teachings either. It will be a slow process, a changing of minds until we reach the states, not the other way around.

That is the only sustainable way. What Leo is doing is nothing but the tickling of his own ego, using the Divine to stimulate himself. The best evidence of this is this forum, which has grown to be little more than a platform to fullfill his own egoic desire for self-expression.

 

A clear symptom of this corruption is the idea that you need to reach Infinite, as if this life was some sort of rat race to God. That's absurd. You came from Infinite Love, and you will return to Infinite Love, inevitably, no matter what you do in this life. Leo's most mind blowing trip is nothing compared to what awaits you. Imagine what happens when everyone finds out that all this work was for something everyone gets for free at the end anyways. But hey, the ego is going to ego.

[Razard86]

6 minutes ago, Scholar said:

I have finally come to see an important, in fact essential, dynamic that one can fall victim to. In my eyes Leo has fallen to this dynamic, a trap he was unable to predict to due certain biases within his ego.

 

We all understand that to access higher states of consciousness we must alter the structure of our ego-mind. There are different ways to access higher states of consciousness. Leo is a proponent of a brute force methodology, namely the attempt to use radical psychedelic states to dissolve certain egoic structures so that we get access to higher states of consciousness. I will go into detail for why this is dysfunctional in a moment.

Now, there is one important key insight that must be kept in mind. A state of consciousness fundamentally has no evaluative quality to it. Meaning, Infinite Love is not inherently mindblowing, it is not inherently awesome. When you have a radically high consciousness experience, you are not crying in amazement because of the experience, you are crying because of the way your egoic structures react to the state.

If you were ultimately selfless, meaning you had no egoic structure, you would not get amazed by Pure Infinite Love. There would be no reaction to Pure Infinite Love, you would not deem it to be extraordinarily important. All of those things are egoic mind reactions. When Pure Infinite Love is terrifying, or beautiful, or amazing, that's all a function of egoic structures reacting to an influx of energy.

Why is this important? It's important because the degree of corruption of the teachings is determined by the difference in compatibility between the egoic structure and the state that was achieved. The more underdeveloped an ego is, the higher the corruption of the state will be once the structure re-emerges.

 

Leo is exceptionally underdeveloped for someone who has reached such high states of consciousness. His mind is far less developed than that of people who have not even remotely reached the states that he has with the help of psychedelics. This means that his insights, his understanding, his reaction to the states he is experiencing are all corrupted. His teachings are for that reason more corrupt, perverted and devilish than someone like Eckhart Tolle or Sadhguru, people who presumably have not reached the same states of consciousness.

There is an inherent limitation to the way Leo is approaching spirituality. The more violent the reaction to a given state that you achieve, the more friction there exists between your mind and the state. Violence in this means any extraordinarily intense emotional reaction, independent of positive or negative charge. To a super-developed alien being, your most intense psychedelic trip would not even evoke a reaction. It would be normal, like you looking at the color red. If this is inconceivable to you, then you do not have a prosper grasp of what ego is.

It is true that such experiences permanently change the egoic structure, and to a degree they can aid in development. However, the attempt to bent egoic structures through highly energetic states is barbaric, unsophisticated and impatient. The state can be imagined to be a highly energetic force which is discharged into the egoic structure. The less reaction to a state, the less imprint on the egoic structure, the more appropriate that state was for your mind. The higher the energetic state, the more friction there will be between your mind and that state. To use this as a developmental tool can lead to extreme dysfunction because it is akin to trying to brutally shape an object into a form that will be able to support that amount of energy. It can cause damage to a mind for that reason, damage that can be impossible for the mind itself to detect, because it is changing the very structure of the mind.

Leo's entire approach is based on an idea of reaching extreme states to induce extreme egoic friction, in an attempt to reach Infinity. The truth is, the human mind is not capable of holding Infinite Energy. It's not designed to hold that much energy, and the radicalness of his experience is only a demonstrating of the existence of egoic structures.

In the future we will not employ such methodology. We will not force inappropriate states into minds to change the structure of those minds. That's just stupid. We will change minds to allow states. It takes more time, more wisdom to do so. And this is good, it is a function of Divine Intelligence to allow for the existence of evolution. The future will not be paved by Psychonauts. The future will be built by people who create roads people can walk on, to venture further and further into the infinite realms of consciousness. In time, this methodology will get us much further than some children tripping their brains out on some psychedelics.

What Leo currently is doing is child's play, it's taking a mind and blasting it as far into Infinity as possible. So far that your ego will then inevitably corrupt it because it is not at the appropriate level to process that state. How the egoic structures will bent and permanently change in the process of energetic overload is largely random. If you use this methodology, it is literally only a matter of time before your mind will develope dysfunctions. It comes with the energetic overload, it's literal function is to shred your mind enough to allow that amount of energy to pass through for the amount of time you reside in that state.

 

In conclusion, Leo's teachings are corrupt because his mind has grown dysfunctional, but also because his mind is not developed enough to process the states which he explores during tripping. His teachings, of course, will not be the future of consciousness work. The mind structures required for a proper engagment with the infinite do not even exist today, and the people who will design those minds will not use Leo's teachings either. It will be a slow process, a changing of minds until we reach the states, not the other way around.

That is the only sustainable way. What Leo is doing is nothing but the tickling of his own ego, using the Divine to stimulate himself. The best evidence of this is this forum, which has grown to be little more than a platform to fullfill his own egoic desire for self-expression.

 

A clear symptom of this corruption is the idea that you need to reach Infinite, as if this life was some sort of rat race to God. That's absurd. You came from Infinite Love, and you will return to Infinite Love, inevitably, no matter what you do in this life. Leo's most mind blowing trip is nothing compared to what awaits you. Imagine what happens when everyone finds out that all this work was for something everyone gets for free at the end anyways. But hey, the ego is going to ego.

1. The Ego was created to experience contrast. How can God NOT be amazed and awaken to itself if it doesn't do a memory wipe, and limit itself in so many ways to it can experience the contrast between the infinite and finite and go WOW!!!

2. Everything you just said about him especially this part "What Leo is doing is nothing but the tickling of his own ego, using the Divine to stimulate himself. The best evidence of this is this forum, which has grown to be little more than a platform to fullfill his own egoic desire for self-expression." If you are here then you are doing the same thing. Also...what is wrong with tickling your ego? Do you not know what ego is?

Ego= Language....which you are using right now, so tickle away. Ego= The body suit you are using right now. Ultimately Ego= Material World, the Impermanent Form in all its appearances. So as long as you are experiencing the impermanent form, you will always be playing/tickling the ego. The key is being able to recognize the ego, and not get lost or hypnotized by it. But how do you demonize....what you literally created to awaken to yourself.

Your first memory of your life was your first awakening, when you awaken to your infinity is your next awakening. Everything that happens inbetween is just the drama that precedes that big awakening moment. Don't get caught up in downplaying the wonder and amazement of God. God is so beyond amazing that its to beautiful to keep to yourself. To deny that IS EGO. Hell you are denying your own amazingness and calling it ego!!! LOL that's a good laugh. Accept how amazing you are and stop TRYING to be humble, that itself can be a trap of self-righteousness which is a fear of becoming arrogant....which makes you arrogant is a preachy, look how serious and UNAMAZING I AM!!! I have freed myself from ego!!! I'm boring and not amazed at all!!! Prostrate yourselves and be bored!!!! 

[Kuba Powiertowski]

@Razard86 until you are in charge of ego - in other words you are fully aware of character you're playing and you're not attached to its agenda. You use it as an joyful interface under fully conscious control. Otherwise, you are the slave of, or possesed by this amazing ego-something. What refers to 99,99% of human population.

[Kuba Powiertowski]

@Razard86 and main operative axiom of most human mind egos is a strong belief of being separate entity in constant fight for survival against vicous and hostile world. We must reprogram that. And it can be done. 

[Moksha]

I hear what you are saying. In the gym, I have noticed that people who take steroids often are not able to lift as much weight as people who developed muscle naturally. Perhaps the same is true for psychedelics and spiritual growth, but maybe not.

It is an overgeneralization to claim that psychedelics are unhealthy simply because they take the mind somewhere it is currently incapable of going on its own. To the contrary, reputable organizations like Beckley Foundation and MAPS, staffed by a plethora of M.D.s and Ph.D.s from the finest universities, are finding evidence for the positive effects of psychedelics on physical, emotional, and spiritual health. For example, this morning I was looking at this review of research on psychedelics and chronic pain, which concluded that:

Psychedelics like lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) and psilocybin, may play a role in the management of chronic pain. Through activation of the serotonin-2A (5-HT2A) receptor, several neurophysiological responses result in the disruption of functional connections in brain regions associated with chronic pain. Healthy reconnections can be made through neuroplastic effects, resulting in sustained pain relief. ..Furthermore, psychedelics have a generally favorable safety profile especially when compared to other analgesics like opioids. In addition, psychedelics do not have the addictive potential of opioids. Given the current epidemic use of opioids, and that patients are in desperate need of an alternative treatment, it is important that further research is conducted on the efficacy of psychedelics in chronic pain conditions.

We are in the middle of a psychedelic renaissance, and science is finding that there may be substantial benefits to professionally guided psychedelic use.

I have not personally tried psychedelics. Maybe I never will, but I am open to considering it. Not because I am chasing a spiritual experience, but because I would enjoy comparing any insights on psychedelics with those I have realized through substanceless spiritual practice.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

Leo is a proponent of a brute force methodology, namely the attempt to use radical psychedelic states to dissolve certain egoic structures so that we get access to higher states of consciousness. I will go into detail for why this is dysfunctional in a moment.

My methodology is very simple: access higher states of consciousness by whatever means work for you. That is the only way to do true spirituality. Everything else is games.

This methodology makes no guarantees that you will come out a good person or that you will dissolve all your egoic structures, because no method guarantees that. There are 1000 ways to screw it up and that will never change. The average person is highly likely to screw it up.

Quote

A state of consciousness fundamentally has no evaluative quality to it. Meaning, Infinite Love is not inherently mindblowing, it is not inherently awesome.

There is no way that you will realize what God is without it awing you. If you didn't get the awesomeness that's because you didn't really Awaken to God.

The awesomeness is a not a human egoic reaction, it's actually a Truthful reaction of Consciousness coming to understand itself. Consciousness is Absolutely Awesome. And the only reason you're not getting that is because there's a giant ego obstructing your view.

Lack of being awestruck by Consciousness is the egoic position. So you got that backwards. You're not awestruck yet simply because you haven't realized the magnitude of what you are.

Awe is a property of God. Why wouldn't it be? What kind of lame God do you envision? It takes a lot of consciousness to see the obvious awesomeness of God.

Edited January 6, 2023 by Leo Gura

[Razard86]

34 minutes ago, Kuba Powiertowski said:

@Razard86 until you are in charge of ego - in other words you are fully aware of character you're playing and you're not attached to its agenda. You use it as an joyful interface under fully conscious control. Otherwise, you are the slave of, or possesed by this amazing ego-something. What refers to 99,99% of human population.

1. Story, pure unadulterated story. God doesn't struggle, it tricks itself into thinking it struggles. 

27 minutes ago, Kuba Powiertowski said:

@Razard86 and main operative axiom of most human mind egos is a strong belief of being separate entity in constant fight for survival against vicous and hostile world. We must reprogram that. And it can be done. 

Again more story. Fight for survival is also more story. The whole awakening path is a story. Have you not yet understood? Good/Bad, right and wrong, is a story. Traps, story. This is literally a story God has created to enjoy. You really think Infinity has to do anything? It doesn't have to do anything, it is immortal, omnipotent, omnipresent, it does everything for the sake of the act itself, not because it needs too.

The entire universe could be wiped out in one fell swoop, and it would still be here. It's why its a dream. In your dream you must do this, and that, then you awaken and realize oh it was a nice dream. Everything on this forum is pure unadulterated love, its not done for any other reason but for the sake of itself. BUT!!!! You can really become so involved so identified with it, that it becomes real, a struggle, and then it must be overcome, it must be fought against, which is ohhhh so beautiful and magnificent!! 

Then you wake up, and realize YOU FOOLED YOURSELF AGAIN!!! LOL!!! The infinite dreamer, infinite trickster, completely deceiving itself forever. Constructing the most engaging and juicy dreams, that both terrorizes and amazes itself. Then argues in its mind over notions of right and wrong and good and bad until....it awakens. 

[Breakingthewall]

@Scholar

Glad to read a penetrating and intelligent analysis. I don't agree or disagree, I don't know anything about Leo, and i keep in mind that Leo has a business. but for my part I can say: without psychedelics there is no spirituality. My use is by not far as intensive as Leo's, but it is systematic and maintained, and it will continue to be so. my goals are not in the trip itself, but in the baseline. the difference before and after is enormous. The balance, the perception of the moment, the silent. 

Without psychedelics it is extremely difficult to scratch the surface. For me Leo's teachings mean nothing, nor those of anyone who i have read. reality is here, now. this. no more is needed. go deep into yourself. It is wonderful that it is possible, and if psychedelics are necessary, they are used and that's it. Of course they aren't the only front, but are the dynamite that opens the possibility to go deep 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[The Mystical Man]

@Scholar I agree. That's my stance on psychedelics, too.

"There is something that is totally natural, and is spontaneous, and really is about surrender, and there is a respect for that: it moves in its way and has its timing and knows what it's doing." - Adyashanti

Patience is key. I don't think it's at all wise to use psychedelics. It's better to live life wisely instead of chasing big experiences. A big experience doesn't mean anything, especially if you forced yourself into it by using chemicals.

Have you tried psychedelics? Frankly, I wish I hadn't. 

Edited January 7, 2023 by The Mystical Man

[Yimpa]

7 hours ago, Scholar said:

When Pure Infinite Love is terrifying, or beautiful, or amazing, that's all a function of egoic structures reacting to an influx of energy.

What

[Kuba Powiertowski]

@Razard86 well, 99,99% of humanity is light years away from enjoyment of this story of being human - that is my overestimated assumption probably, yet that what awakening is in some sense - realizing that this story is not everything that is - dead serious game for survival. When you rediscover that you can start reprograming your mind tool from constant chasing the line of the horizon to more relaxed approach. Don't you agree?

[Razard86]

34 minutes ago, Kuba Powiertowski said:

@Razard86 well, 99,99% of humanity is light years away from enjoyment of this story of being human - that is my overestimated assumption probably, yet that what awakening is in some sense - realizing that this story is not everything that is - dead serious game for survival. When you rediscover that you can start reprograming your mind tool from constant chasing the line of the horizon to more relaxed approach. Don't you agree?

I agree completely. I just posted a video of a guy who isn't knee deep in spirituality and he was given the same message you just said just in a simpler form. 

So I agree completely, but its also something I think the Buddha has said as well, and also Neville Goddard, and Jesus. Of course this is all story, but that's the point, the same message keeps coming back, no matter where I look, where I turn, no matter how much I ponder the same DAMN MESSAGE IS LOVE!!! LOL!! 

We really need to just teach love in all its various forms as a curriculum in school. All this other stuff can be taught afterwards. You don't know how much I am seeing rich people starting to cry out for more love. When you have the rich suffering you know its a problem LOL. 

Also notice the inauthenticity in the guy when he says "I sometimes judge others." I cringed lol. We all know by now here that whatever you judge yourself by you do the same to others. It's literally impossible to not do it, because your notion of good and bad is how you direct your life. Obviously the spiritual path is about transcending that but until that is done that is your default mechanism. Then the irony is at the end...he faces his own judgment and gets to see why its so hard. Humanity is struggling with its own judgments. 

I'm starting to see the beauty in judgments recently its powerful actually how you can observe the struggle for self-acceptance and to be free of it. Its quite beautiful. 

Edited January 7, 2023 by Razard86

[Gesundheit2]

Typically, the word God is associated with jaw-drop emotional reactionary states. Feeling spiritually awestruck is usually what most people consider to be God.

But according to non-duality, God and ego are actually interchangeable. So you can argue for the opposite case, and you will be right. Just realize the relativity of all this and don't get sucked into debates about it.

[vishnusavestheday]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

My methodology is very simple: access higher states of consciousness by whatever means work for you. That is the only way to do true spirituality. Everything else is games.

This methodology makes no guarantees that you will come out a good person or that you will dissolve all your egoic structures, because no method guarantees that. There are 1000 ways to screw it up and that will never change. The average person is highly likely to screw it up.

My friend introduced me to this concept years ago, but he considered it tantric buddhism. I still think it's nonetheless profound because this method produces such diverse failures of people that I too would in turn consider this method a success-- just because.

 

It's how the Satanic tenet "Do what thou wilt" acts for those Abrahamic's "Thou shalt nots" without having to annoy with boring over-explanation.

[Mips]

@Scholar Looking at his huge amount of videos, don't you agree that he's done the work? I've never seen such a succinct and all encompassing dive into the foundational and advanced topics and practices involved. I'm incredibly grateful, it's the first setup I've found that really works with my cerebral type mind.

I'm no expert but it seems obvious from his 500 or so videos that he seems to have developed his mind to a good degree.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Mips

[Kuba Powiertowski]

@Razard86 ???

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Kuba Powiertowski said:

well, 99,99% of humanity is light years away from enjoyment of this story of being human -

the only way to fully enjoy being human is to truly detach yourself from being human. the only way to do this is to break the barriers that constitute your ego and open yourself to infinity. this has to be real, in the present moment, for all time. not just a peak experience that you bring back information from. It seems to me that this is what Leo does. seek knowledge, not freedom. I would say that is attachment. 

For me the objective is to make this space-time human entity more and more transparent, to live in the pure present. the help that psychedelics provide for this if you use them intelligently is enormous

[Carl-Richard]

Largely correct, but you're projecting an expectation onto Leo of being the usual spiritual teacher (and maybe that is largely on him for not making that clear, which most of my critiques of him are about). The psychonaut doesn't have to care much about gradually unwinding the ego. It's mostly tangential to their mission. Also, the point about friction creating the reaction to the experience is partially true, but the state itself does have an inherent quality to it. That is why you hear spiritual teachers talk about your absolute nature being happiness, peace or bliss, and why spiritual teachers act differently at all from normal people. The friction can indeed make it overwhelmingly blissful, but that is partially because it reflects the quality of the state. If you instead experience a supremely hellish state of consciousness, that will not feel like bliss.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Carl-Richard

[UDT]

14 hours ago, Scholar said:

 

A clear symptom of this corruption is the idea that you need to reach Infinite, as if this life was some sort of rat race to God.

 

Well.... YES
BUT
Before you know, you kinda wanna know. 
Which is ofc a function of the ego but you dont know yet! 
So you race to find out. 
Once you find out, its time to let go and enjoy. 

This is what I think most masters do, which is why rarely masters teach it. No point! 


@Scholar It is indeed a trap he fell for, but dont be so hard. Everyone needs something. Just choose what is it that you attach to, and then its fine. 

Namaste 

[Mohammad]

I agree with some of your points.

But everyone should walk their own path. Leo never said the only way for advancing is the way that he describes.

Leo's teachings are not corrupt. He is an amazing teacher. We just have to remember that human mind can have infinite forms, so the path is not the same for everyone, every piece of consciousness access higher states in its own way.

Leo is just a guide and a teacher. And a good one. We have to walk our own path.